18-02-2005 12:44									#91
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quote: I'm not. Obama actually seems to have a brain in his head, which probably doesn't sit too well with you. Looks like you'll have to keep turning to Barbara Boxer for braindead, knee-jerk leftism... Good legislation, BTW. Class action suits have been out of hand for a while now.

Yes, damn that Imran, blindly following Barbara Boxer.

I don't object to the damage caps that much, but these restrictions on class action suits are crap. Moderate tort reform is fine, but this is rediculous.

But you can keep turning to Teh Bush for retarded stereo-types of differing opinions.

	18-02-2005 12:47									#92
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There are entire nations, some of them civilised, that make do without any class actions whatsoever.

	18-02-2005 12:52									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo [q] Yes, damn that Imran, blindly following Barbara Boxer.

I was talking about you, not Imran. He has his own reasons for opposing this legislation quite different from yours (or so I hope)...

	18-02-2005 13:01									#94
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I find it amusing that you know my reasons for opposing this legislation (and find them so objectionable) when I've written so little about it. Believe it or not, way back when before the era of Shrub, there used to be some aspects of the Republican economic agenda that I preferred over the Democrats. I don't think that's the case any more though.

Last edited by Ramo on 18-02-2005 at 13:06

	18-02-2005 13:06									#95
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I don't see why you'd be "disappointed" in Obama's vote unless you thought he wasn't being sufficiently liberal. Then again, maybe I've been reading too much Kos...

	18-02-2005 13:10									#96
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I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, not a liberal. I don't think that tort law is any real substitute for strong unions. I just thought Obama would have more sense than to vote for it.

	18-02-2005 13:15									#97
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I'm glad he had the sense to vote for it.

Obama (so far)

	18-02-2005 15:20									#98
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Imran, all I can say is that you are now solidly in the leftist camp. Class action abuse is having a crippling effect on America to the sole benefit of trial lawyers, who contribute heavily to the Democrats and who actually run for president (Edwards) on the Democrat ticket.

Why don't you just give it up and go become a card carrying member. You are a fellow traveler as it is.

	18-02-2005 17:58									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It's called preventing overloading Federal courts. And it's also done all the time in other cases (people from different states suing other people from other different states), though if the defendant wanted to, he could remove it to federal courts (for diversity).

Interesting that in the hundreds (perhaps thousands) of your posts that I've read, you haven't previously mentioned any concern over the caseload of the Federal Courts. What a coincidence eh? And now it's such a problem that preventing abuses by private parties and the lawyers isn't worth doing.

	18-02-2005 18:45									#100
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quote: you haven't previously mentioned any concern over the caseload of the Federal Courts

The caseload of Federal Court are ALWAYS a concern. Ask anyone that has an admiralty case, where the Federal Court is the only option. The Federal Court system isn't going to like this, though, because for the longest time they've been sending cases like this down to the states because they didn't want to be more swamped. Ask a Federal Judge.

quote: Class action abuse is having a crippling effect on America to the sole benefit of trial lawyers

Class actions have also stopped companies from keeping dangerous wares on the market. The Ford Pinto was not taken off the streets by government regulation, but by class action suits.

	18-02-2005 19:32									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Imran, all I can say is that you are now solidly in the leftist camp. Class action abuse is having a crippling effect on America to the sole benefit of trial lawyers, who contribute heavily to the Democrats and who actually run for president (Edwards) on the Democrat ticket. Why don't you just give it up and go become a card carrying member. You are a fellow traveler as it is.

So your solution to individual lawyers abusing the law is to... make it extremely difficult for all wronged people to file law suites? Wouldn't it be more logical to punish the people who file frivolous law suites?

Of course that really isn't the point is it? No, Bush wants to damage the Democrat's finances and give corporations legal immunity for their wrong doing. Other wise he'd get the bar association to improve their ethics rules and disbar lawyers who file frivolous cases, wouldn't he?

	18-02-2005 20:00									#102
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quote: So your solution to individual lawyers abusing the law is to... make it extremely difficult for all wronged people to file law suites? Wouldn't it be more logical to punish the people who file frivolous law suites?

Yep, but, of course, as you say, that isn't the point. The idea is to punish all lawyers so they'll have less to give to the Democrats.

Of course they don't care if they have to take away the rights of ordinary people who may lose limbs because of hospital negligence or get seriously injured by a corporation's malfunctioning product.

quote: Other wise he'd get the bar association to improve their ethics rules and disbar lawyers who file frivolous cases, wouldn't he?

What more would you have the ethics rules do? From what I've seen they are pretty strong and penalize a LOT more than most people realize. And lawyers that keep filing frivolous suits are subject to penalties in just about every bar association in the country.

Here is Colorado's for instance:

http://www.cobar.org/group/display.cfm?GenID=2049

Georgia's is within this advisory opinion:

http://www.gabar.org/op871.asp

	18-02-2005 20:55									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin So your solution to individual lawyers abusing the law is to... make it extremely difficult for all wronged people to file law suites? Wouldn't it be more logical to punish the people who file frivolous law suites? Of course that really isn't the point is it? No, Bush wants to damage the Democrat's finances and give corporations legal immunity for their wrong doing. Other wise he'd get the bar association to improve their ethics rules and disbar lawyers who file frivolous cases, wouldn't he?

Oerdin, no one is eliminating worthy cases from proceeding. The new rules only prevent abuse. PERIOD. And the only people who are against the new rules are

1) trial lawyers (and their paid lackeys); and

2) enemies of capitalism.

Which are you?

	18-02-2005 21:06									#104
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quote: 1) trial lawyers (and their paid lackeys); and 2) enemies of capitalism. Which are you?

You forgot:

3) defenders of injured victims

	18-02-2005 21:12									#105
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Maybe I'm missing something and I'm not sure if this was covered earler but how does a rule that prevents forum shopping stop class action suits?

	18-02-2005 21:16									#106
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Federal rules in multi state class actions are more onerous than any state rules, because of some, well, interesting, Supreme Court precedents. This makes it more costly and time-consuming to bring a class action in federal court (if the costs are too much, not going to be brought at all, of course). Anyway, can someone explain to me why state courts shouldn't be able to hear STATE LAW claims? Where is this states' rights thing I keep hearing about?

Though I do agree with the anti-coupon law attached to this one.

	18-02-2005 21:18									#107
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quote: Federal rules in multi state class actions are more onerous than any state rules, because of some, well, interesting, Supreme Court precedents.

Why do you hate the Supreme Court?

	18-02-2005 21:25									#108
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Because they are a bunch of morons . Frankly having the district court look at every single law of every state in which the class plaintiffs are from and come up with one decision taking into account and applying all those laws is kind of absurd. At the very least some guidance could have been given... but it's the SCOTUS, so of course not .

	18-02-2005 21:32									#109
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Bush

If you remove that kind of class action, you'll remove one of the perks that makes the US the laughingstock of the world

Why do you hate the world so much ?

	18-02-2005 21:46									#110
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I will admit that I would prefer it if these things were handled appropiately at the state level

	18-02-2005 22:02									#111
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MS was one of those shopped jurisdictions. The South was the main culprit in these suits. Lott was probably holding up this legislation when he was Majority Leader, all the while scapegoating the Democrats.

	18-02-2005 22:08									#112
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for Mississippi

Unlimited joinder is never a good idea.

	18-02-2005 23:54									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Ned 2) enemies of capitalism. Which are you?

	19-02-2005 00:35									#114
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Odin... yeah I liked that too.

	19-02-2005 00:37									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Class actions have also stopped companies from keeping dangerous wares on the market. The Ford Pinto was not taken off the streets by government regulation, but by class action suits.

taking dangerous wares off the market blows. I am sick and tired of lawyers determing what products we can or cannot have. Consumer choice is suffering because of such lawsuits. Instead of class action law suits companies should have to pay a nominal fee to publish comprehensive safety data and the let the consumer decide for themselves. We supposably live in an information age so why not adjust our policies to reflect that?

	19-02-2005 00:38									#116
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Ned has become Fez .

	19-02-2005 00:53									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Imran, all I can say is that you are now solidly in the leftist camp. Class action abuse is having a crippling effect on America to the sole benefit of trial lawyers, who contribute heavily to the Democrats and who actually run for president (Edwards) on the Democrat ticket. Why don't you just give it up and go become a card carrying member. You are a fellow traveler as it is.

I love this excuse... blame everything on the trial lawyers. You do know Ned that BOTH sides get to have lawyers, right? Republicans use lawyers just as much as Democrats. The big business that have lost in class action suits had lawyers of their own, Ned, and they were trial lawyers that I'm sure were heavily paid by the big business. Do you hate those lawyers too, or only the ones that the side you don't approve of hires?Republicans love to demonize lawyers while turning a blind eye to the evils of big business CEOs. Do you think businessmen are more honest than lawyers, Ned? I'm not a Democrat, I'm a right-winger, but its this type of knee-jerk idiocy that makes me hate the Republican party.

As for this legislation, I don't see anything wrong with it. There are many forum games involved in class action suits. The Fed Cts are probably best suited to handle these huge, multi-state claims.

	19-02-2005 01:00									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Wycoff I love this excuse... blame everything on the trial lawyers. You do know Ned that BOTH sides get to have lawyers, right. Republicans use lawyers just as much as Democrats. The big business that have lost in class action suits had lawyers of their own, Ned, and they were trial lawyers that I'm sure were heavily paid by the big business. Do you hate those lawyers too, or only the ones that the side you don't approve of hires?Republicans love to demonize lawyers while turning a blind eye to the evils of big business CEOs. Do you think businessmen are more honest than lawyers, Ned? I'm not a Democrat, I'm a right-winger, but its this type of knee-jerk idiocy that makes me hate the Republican party.

and like I mentioned earlier, corporations file FOUR TIMES as many lawsuits as individuals... but yet, Republicans only hate the trial lawyers that help people, like John Edwards...

	19-02-2005 01:03									#119
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Imran, what law school do you attend and which year are you in?

	19-02-2005 01:16									#120
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Emory Law School in ATL, and a 3L