19-02-2005 17:22									#31
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OK! I'm waiting in the Command Center.

	19-02-2005 17:45									#32
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I'm there too, I just hope we'll get the turn from the Morgans soon!

EDIT: We're there an hour early, just in case

Last edited by Snoddasmannen on 19-02-2005 at 18:02

	19-02-2005 19:56									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

rescheduled for noon Pacific time (8 pm London)

	19-02-2005 20:44									#34
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Another crazy thought. If we wind up with units within another other Morgan base radius, would it be legal for them to gift that base to an AI and then mind control it back - netting them the units within that base radius?

	19-02-2005 22:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen Another crazy thought. If we wind up with units within another other Morgan base radius, would it be legal for them to gift that base to an AI and then mind control it back - netting them the units within that base radius?

It seems like, from my experience, the units have to be right next to or inside the base for them to be mindcontrolled along with the base. I could be wrong, though.

	19-02-2005 22:08									#36
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* Snoddasmannen is monitoring the forums like a hawk in a vain attempt to avoid having to work on his presentation

I see that jtsisyoda is preparing to send the turn as we speak! I'll jump in to the command center. If you see this Googlie, and if you intend to start playing the turn right now, you can jump in and do some minor moves before the big invasion in a few hours. Of course, everybody else in the Junta should also join in if you're as curious as me to find out what the Morgans have been up to

	19-02-2005 22:20									#37
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I'm coming.
Also, as unexpected struck, I won't be home between 7:30 and 10:30PM London Time...

	19-02-2005 23:08									#38
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2160 - they're expecting us

Attachment: 2160 - thwarted.jpg
This has been downloaded 44 time(s).

	19-02-2005 23:24									#39
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Morgan Industries defenses in 2160:

Attachment: 2160 - morganindustries.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	19-02-2005 23:54									#40
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Mussels defenses

Attachment: 2160-mussels defense.jpg
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).

	20-02-2005 02:12									#41
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To sum up the discussion in the command center: There is still a chance we can destroy the PTS! It will be much more expensive though. Googlie vanished from the chat while testing this in his sim, but he managed to successfully reproduce a destruction of the PTS at least twice (with no failures).

There is still one caveat for me. There could be a unit hiding under the crawler between MM and MI, which would thwart the attack completely.

Anyway, we will resume the chat later, and I can only assume Googlie will fill in all the details.

	20-02-2005 02:16									#42
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Probably no one's interested in this between all the heroic struggles happening, but I've got a little suggestion. After performing an atrocity we'll produce next year (due to solar flares) +- 68 credits and 43.2 labs. However if we switch back to 50-0-50 energy allocations we'd get 59 credits and 72.8 labs. So even though we're not really focusing on research, how about switching back, as we only lose 9 credits but gain 29.6 labs.

Oh yeah, what's the planned moves again for the two first rovers? I keep forgetting, with the chatroom booting us etc.

	20-02-2005 02:20									#43
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here's the sim, as near as I can replicate the defenders, formers, etc around Mussels and Industries

In about ten attempts I have been successful twice, but each time I've ended with a stacked pair and 2 singles

With the failures, though, every time I've finished with 2 stacked pairs, so it's not all bad

Sim deleted due to errors - see replacement below

Last edited by Googlie on 20-02-2005 at 02:31

	20-02-2005 02:23									#44
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I think the sequence of attacks, and which rover does what, are crucial.

The final rover needs to have only 1 former to kill so that it can enter MI with 1/3rd or 2/3rds of an MP left so that it can obliterate the base (I was never able to rejoin the other single in the suburbs with that last 1/3rd point)

	20-02-2005 02:23									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie In about ten attempts I have been successful twice

I hope you mean UNsuccesful.

	20-02-2005 02:26									#46
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Two out of ten? That's not gonna do it I reckon... What is the critical point of failure? Is it the first two rovers taking out all four defenders?

	20-02-2005 02:26									#47
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Ach - I've made a mistake in the sim - I put a crawler where there isn't one.

here's a corrected replacement

Attachment: acdg3-sim-ptsraid, 2160.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	20-02-2005 02:31									#48
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No - I meant 2 successes and eight failures (but several of these were during the chatroom fiascos)

	20-02-2005 02:33									#49
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Woops. Anyway, I just tried it too and I failed.
The first rover to attack MI lost too many MPs to attack a former.

Some observation (though I assume they were already known):

If we attack MM by sea, the base survives. If we attack it over land, it's destroyed after killing its defender.

We should make sure only to attack the MM plasma defender after having already killed a weaker unit such as the 80% damaged probe or the crawler. Otherwise the rover to attack the plasma defender will already have lost too many hitpoints and thereby lose its remaining movement points.

	20-02-2005 02:39									#50
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Why don't you gentlemen join me and Modo in the chat room? It does kinda work

	20-02-2005 02:41									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

On my second try however I was very succesful and even had movement points over in the end.
With the first rover I attacked and killed the synthrover, then the synthprobe and then the MM plasma rover. The odds for that last battle were fifty-fifty though, so this scenario needs some luck.

What's your attack sequence Googlie?

	20-02-2005 02:43									#52
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Write the sequences down, guys. This looks doable, but only with attention to detail.

Basic sequence in my opinion:
1. Use the first attacks of 3 rovers to kill the strongest defenders.
2. Use the second and third attacks of 2 rovers to kill other defenders.
3. Use the 2nd or 3rd attack of the 3rd rover to kill the former in Morgan Industries.
4. Use the 4th rover to finish.

	20-02-2005 02:48									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Basic sequence in my opinion: 1. Use the first attacks of 3 rovers to kill the strongest defenders. 2. Use the second and third attacks of 2 rovers to kill other defenders.

Actually I think it should be the other way around. With their first MP they should kill a weak unit, to avoid losing too many hitpoints and thereby lose a movement point.

	20-02-2005 02:51									#54
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My problem was in my alphax.txt - I had somehow carried over from a scenario a 50% penalty for attacking from a lower elevation - and sea to land is just that

I'be been successful ever since i corrected it

	20-02-2005 02:52									#55
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Sorry, I keep forgetting that, Maniac.

Googlie, please - do tell the exact sequence.

	20-02-2005 02:53									#56
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With me, the sequence can vary, but the common element is that after the 3 defenders and the crawler are killed (by 2 units, which stack on the farm tile), the 3rd rover makes to MI and tales out the synthunit and 1 former while the other follows and takes out the second former, then has just enough to obliterate the base

	20-02-2005 02:57									#57
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I think, though, that different attack sequences can leave me with three singles and a rover still on the Mercury (but exhausted)

So there must be an optimal one

	20-02-2005 02:59									#58
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Either there is one best sequence, or one best ruleset (if this takes too much damage, another attacks - that kind of rules). We need to know to minimize the risk.

We have over a day to figure it out, so we should be ok.

	20-02-2005 03:11									#59
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Of course, to avoid letting Amphi Impact rovers fall into morgan hands afterwards, we can always disband them at the end of the turn

	20-02-2005 03:14									#60
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My most dependable sequence is:

• destroy synthrover on farm, land, and destroy crawler with first rover
  
• land, destroy 80% damaged synthprobe and then plasma rover in Mussels with second rover
  
• Land with third, proceed to Industries, and take out synthrover and one former
  
• Land fourth, proceed to Industries, take out second former then enter base, cash in NN and then obliterate base
  
• Disband rovers # 3 and 4 (1 and 2 are stacked in the farmers field)