14-02-2005 01:28									#1
	MY 2160 Planning Thread Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Let's start planning already for this long expected turn.


For starters this micromanaging tidbit: put "stockpile energy" in Argos' build queue.

	14-02-2005 01:49									#2
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Footnote to 2159 turn - I reset the sliders at 60-0-40 to give 25 ec's instead of 18 this next turn

And based on the PTS Raid simulation, the sequence of attack moves is important (so as not to leave 2 rovers isolated.)

Also (rather obvious aide memoire) don't destroy PTS until Fort Soup's colony pod "hatches" into a 3-pop base

Can we afford to upgrade the SCC Minas Tirith to Impact or Missile then shell those 2 Hive units before we attack them (our popguns are doing no damage to them, but Impact or Missile weapons should hurt)

(Then our new Missile Infantryman will take care of one, but the next best we have is a 30% damaged Impact Infantryman who half the time will lose a battle with a synth unit)

Try to destroy Paraminia's forest with a shelling by the SCC Njord

	14-02-2005 05:25									#3
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Our AA, currently in Fort Buster, can be linked to our Rio Grande Network Node next turn ...........

but .......................

do we want to wait a turn and extract Field Modulation from Yang (he gets it in 2) to give us better odds of getting Int Int ourselves or even Doc Air? (it'd be a shame if we got Field Modulation via an AA when we could steal it from Yang - that'd involve just hanging around with the Heimdall and probe for an extra turn)

But how about the Heimdall and the Pegasus exchanging cargoes? If we podpop with the Pegasus, then we need to offload the rover or the Ogre else we'll never get a unit or AA pop - plus, with its extra movement points the Mercury can outrun trouble if we pop an IoD

(And if the Gaians see us we can say that we've sent a cruiser transport to rush the troops back to the front to meet the Hive threat - the probe will have returned to one of our bases after the 2161 steal of Field Mod from the Hive)

(We can still pop the landpod NE of the pegasus with the rover, and if it's a useful unit we can leave R-112 on that peninsula until the Heimdall arrives)

Attachment: ogre exchange.jpg
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	14-02-2005 05:39									#4
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Waiting for the tech extraction from Yang sounds good.

I am falling asleep, so I will comment on the ship movements in te morning. Good ni...

	14-02-2005 07:19									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Can we afford to upgrade the SCC Minas Tirith to Impact or Missile then shell those 2 Hive units before we attack them (our popguns are doing no damage to them, but Impact or Missile weapons should hurt)

As you may have noticed this turn, personally I'm rather reluctant to upgrading units if it isn't an emergency. After all, we produce some 120 minerals each year but only 25 credits. So cash is the rare resource for us.

So I'm wondering: is it really necessary to have a unit bombing the Hive units before they reach Minas Tirith? Next year we'll have a missile infantry there, so that one can take care of the synthunit. And IIRC the other unit on that rocky square was an unarmoured rover, so I assume even the damaged impact infantry should be able to take care of that.

Besides, upgrading would finish the coastguard's turn, so we wouldn't be able to use it next year anyway.

quote: Try to destroy Paraminia's forest with a shelling by the SCC Njord

Sounds good.

Extracting Field Modulation sounds good too. Though then we won't be able to use SNC Heimdall to ferry troops from GH to MT. Shall we then move the FB missile rover, after being upgraded to elite at the local monolith, over land to MT? And what about the Olympian Guard? Does that also need to move to MT, or would the missile rover together with the already present units in MT suffice to hold off the Hivean hordes?

	14-02-2005 12:23									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac So I'm wondering: is it really necessary to have a unit bombing the Hive units before they reach Minas Tirith? Next year we'll have a missile infantry there, so that one can take care of the synthunit. And IIRC the other unit on that rocky square was an unarmoured rover, so I assume even the damaged impact infantry should be able to take care of that.

I agree with Maniac. The missile infantry will have about a 96.5% chance to beat the synthed Hive infantry according my simulator. The remaining, now collaterally damaged rover would be slim pickings for even a 30% damaged impact unit, with about a 98.5% success rate.

Note that I don't have much faith in these numbers, but I have to use my new toy

quote: Originally posted by Googlie (Then our new Missile Infantryman will take care of one, but the next best we have is a 30% damaged Impact Infantryman who half the time will lose a battle with a synth unit)

I used this scenario as a test-bed for my simulator, since your figure differed from the output of my sim so greatly. I didn't know the morale levels of the Hive unit, but I wildly stabbed at disciplined (our unit is commando as I recall). My simulator predicted 72% success rate for our unit. Then I did some play-testing which resulted in a win in 20 of 27 tests = 74%. Encouraging results, but of course the margin of error in the play-testing is enormous. Try setting the sim to 27 tests and see how the output varies, I saw everything from 55 to 90%.

	16-02-2005 19:53									#7
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I would love to participate in a live turn-chat btw. This turn is very important! I guess we should be expecting it early on saturday morning CET time, ie in 3 days minus 10 or so hours. Who can make it? I think I could be available at least partially that whole day.

	16-02-2005 21:08									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen I would love to participate in a live turn-chat btw. This turn is very important! I guess we should be expecting it early on saturday morning CET time, ie in 3 days minus 10 or so hours. Who can make it? I think I could be available at least partially that whole day.

I'll also be available in the weekend. Most likely in the evening and night though.


Oh yeah, I testplayed a 2160 turn with the updated simulator, and these are the notes I made:

Argos: stockpile energy

2NS: amphib missile rover (the Steppenwolfs?) : stay at 2NS or help out at MT?

SCC Minas Tirith: (unless we'd want to upgrade after all) first move into Minas Tirith before firing at the Hive troops. That way we can repair the ship in the base next turn.

MT supercrawler: move further north? As the other supercrawler is also moving north.

Tomcat-VV and Tomcat-OA between OA and VV: build mine on (65.15).

Tomcat-SC1 and Tomcat-SCW on tile (56.18): move one tile SW to plant a forest there? So crawlers coming from Fort Buster en route to the east can end their turn there, and harvest 2 mins.

FB missile rover: upgrade to elite at the monolith.

Tomcat-RG and Tomcat-MS: lots of possibilities. Perhaps mining the rocky square south of them? By moving SW and then SE they could already start on it this year.

Found Ironholm after capturing Morgan Industries.

Rehome the AU hoplite to Ironholm after its foundation.

Should we let the new Fort Libertarian hoplite escort the University colony pod (after an upgrade at the Climactic Research monolith)? The ClimRes fungicidal former was apparently destroyed at the end of MY 2159 by a worm, and who knows that colony pod will also walk straight in the arms of that worm.

We already stole a tech at Fellowship City. Should we therefore steal Field Modulation at Unity Lair instead, if possible?

How about moving SC1's Crypteia to Vladivostok?

How about hurrying AU, TH and RG crawler production?

GH missile cruiser production: instead of directly building the cruiser, how about switching production to a crawler, and when that's finished, use that crawler and another one to hurry the missile cruiser?

	16-02-2005 23:55									#9
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As 2161 is going to be the solar flare year, this 2160 turn we should position/earmark our crawlers for energy collection for 1 turn in lieu of minerals. And Fort Soup will get a massive boost (triple energy on 2 boreholes!!)

	16-02-2005 23:59									#10
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Some serious upgrades, or some serious building rushes? Ahh, the pressure.

	17-02-2005 00:36									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie As 2161 is going to be the solar flare year.......................

Hmm - it appears that 2160 is the flare year - see here

	17-02-2005 01:10									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I'll also be available in the weekend. Most likely in the evening and night though.

I can make myself available anytime over the weekend

quote: Oh yeah, I testplayed a 2160 turn with the updated simulator, and these are the notes I made: Argos: stockpile energy

quote: 2NS: amphib missile rover (the Steppenwolfs?) : stay at 2NS or help out at MT?

I'd leave it there for guard duty until we get another Hoplite built, then pick it up with the Hermes after it drops off the colony pod and scout, and sail round to Laborers' Throng and attack the base there

quote: SCC Minas Tirith: (unless we'd want to upgrade after all) first move into Minas Tirith before firing at the Hive troops. That way we can repair the ship in the base next turn.

Souinds good (although I don't think our popguns do them any damage)

quote: MT supercrawler: move further north? As the other supercrawler is also moving north.

At least on to that solar tile (if the flare is 2161) or the next one - where Tomcat SCS is working - if the flare is a 2160 event

quote: Tomcat-VV and Tomcat-OA between OA and VV: build mine on (65.15).

Tomcat VV has already started the mine there

quote: Tomcat-SC1 and Tomcat-SCW on tile (56.18): move one tile SW to plant a forest there? So crawlers coming from Fort Buster en route to the east can end their turn there, and harvest 2 mins.

Good suggestion

quote: FB missile rover: upgrade to elite at the monolith.

Agreed - and we need to connect the monolith due North of SC2 by road - to avoid detouring to the one north of SC itself

quote: Tomcat-RG and Tomcat-MS: lots of possibilities. Perhaps mining the rocky square south of them? By moving SW and then SE they could already start on it this year.

- another mine for Rio Grande to work. Which begs the question - do we want to maintain RG and FB both as 11-minerals bases, or do we want to restore FB to its megaminerals (18) state by rehoming that (nowRG) crawler on the minerals mine?

quote: Found Ironholm after capturing Morgan Industries......... Rehome the AU hoplite to Ironholm after its foundation.

quote: Should we let the new Fort Libertarian hoplite escort the University colony pod (after an upgrade at the Climactic Research monolith)? The ClimRes fungicidal former was apparently destroyed at the end of MY 2159 by a worm, and who knows that colony pod will also walk straight in the arms of that worm.

I say "yes" - we want to protect/grow our investment in Zak

And here's a thought ............. We'll lose all our commerce income for ten years after we obliterate MI - so why don't we repay Zak the loan (170 ec's) to clear our 2 ec's per turn debt then extort from him - he'll give us 140. We lose 30 ec's but benefit on our cash flow.

In the sim, he won't talk to us for the ten year period after the atrocity

quote: We already stole a tech at Fellowship City. Should we therefore steal Field Modulation at Unity Lair instead, if possible?

Why not Social Engineering Den? (Or have we visited there before - I can't remember) If we land the probe in the fungus at 46:38 we can try SED first, and if that's gotten new locks then can proceed to UL assuming no blocks (or to the Drone Mound)

quote: How about moving SC1's Crypteia to Vladivostok? How about hurrying AU, TH and RG crawler production?

Both suggestions I'll incorporate into the turn

quote: GH missile cruiser production: instead of directly building the cruiser, how about switching production to a crawler, and when that's finished, use that crawler and another one to hurry the missile cruiser?

Can do - we do seem to have a surfeit of crawlers

	17-02-2005 04:37									#13
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By my reckoning Morgan will have the turn in around 7 hours, and then we can expect it Friday evening around 11.00 pm Pacific time (Saturday morning around 7 or 8 in ther morning in Europe)

Is it best to schedule a live invasion then, or to wait a handful of hours to co-ordinate early Sat on the Pacific coast/midmorning Sat on the Atlantic coast and late afternoon in Europe?

I can always make some inconsequential moves and post a midturn save late Friday my time (PST+1) and then we can go live after a few hours sleep to accommodate the max # of players wanting to tune in

	17-02-2005 05:06									#14
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I would just like to repeat something that Vishniac said in another thread: don't forget that we can scrap a facility in Morgan Industries when we capture it.

I also have a question: is energy collected in a rioting base? And is the rioting determined before or after the energy is calculated?

	17-02-2005 06:16									#15
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Here's the answer: (what a time to hit them, eh??)

Attachment: drone riots.jpg
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	17-02-2005 06:22									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter I would just like to repeat something that Vishniac said in another thread: don't forget that we can scrap a facility in Morgan Industries when we capture it.

Right - In the sim the Recycling Tanks get destroyed in the attack, so only the Network Node remains - it'd be the obvious choice to disband anyway, being the most valuable

	17-02-2005 16:31									#17
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I'll be available all week-end (except saturday between 11AM - 1PM CET) and happy to join the live. But is it the "Chat" option here on top or some special crypted link?

	17-02-2005 18:07									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie By my reckoning Morgan will have the turn in around 7 hours, and then we can expect it Friday evening around 11.00 pm Pacific time (Saturday morning around 7 or 8 in ther morning in Europe) Is it best to schedule a live invasion then, or to wait a handful of hours to co-ordinate early Sat on the Pacific coast/midmorning Sat on the Atlantic coast and late afternoon in Europe? I can always make some inconsequential moves and post a midturn save late Friday my time (PST+1) and then we can go live after a few hours sleep to accommodate the max # of players wanting to tune in

The last suggestion sounds good to me
Two days and say 2 hours from now (I'm useless with time zones and stuff), would that give you enough hours of sleep? Give us a little status update when the turn arrives, then go straight to bed

quote: I'll be available all week-end (except saturday between 11AM - 1PM CET) and happy to join the live. But is it the "Chat" option here on top or some special crypted link?

Usually it is in a Java chat room which is linked to from the Spartan Federation website:
http://googlie2.tripod.com/thespartanfederation/

Here are some of the old chats:
http://www2.onyx.nu/pb/chatter/chatter.php

It is open to anybody, so maybe we should have a pass-phrase

So who will be there?

	17-02-2005 18:22									#19
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I will be there, just tell me when to enter.

By the way, it did not load in Mozilla. Had to use the Exploder. ACK

	17-02-2005 19:46									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen It is open to anybody, so maybe we should have a pass-phrase

Well, while the Spartan Federation site is open (one would need to google search it, though) and while that chatroom is also linked to the Spartan Chronicles website, there's no traffic on the latter these last couple of years and the url of the former is only known to us in this private forum

I think we're pretty safe. I may be able to password-protect the website but I don't believe that I can password protect the chat room itself (it's a Bravenet freebie)

	17-02-2005 20:16									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter I also have a question: is energy collected in a rioting base? And is the rioting determined before or after the energy is calculated?

This is what Morgan will see upon opening their turn (as near as I can make the simulation. - they lose Morgan Industries and perhaps Morgan Mussels as well in the raid)

They only lose the energy in the size-3 bases as that's where the drone riots occur:

	18-02-2005 23:17									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie - another mine for Rio Grande to work. Which begs the question - do we want to maintain RG and FB both as 11-minerals bases, or do we want to restore FB to its megaminerals (18) state by rehoming that (nowRG) crawler on the minerals mine?

In case we'd want to hurry the RG crawler, I'd suggest to leave the crawlers as they are this turn: it reduces the hurry cost, and it gives us a bigger return due to the stockpile energy bug. From next turn on though rehoming them to FB seems good to me.

quote: Why not Social Engineering Den? (Or have we visited there before - I can't remember) If we land the probe in the fungus at 46:38 we can try SED first, and if that's gotten new locks then can proceed to UL assuming no blocks (or to the Drone Mound)

We'll reach SED this MY 2160, but the Hive will only research Field Modulation MY 2161. So we'd have to wait a year.

	18-02-2005 23:35									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie This is what Morgan will see upon opening their turn (as near as I can make the simulation. - they lose Morgan Industries and perhaps Morgan Mussels as well in the raid) They only lose the energy in the size-3 bases as that's where the drone riots occur:

Great info Googlie

Though it is hardly as devastating as I had hoped for, it's still a decent blow against them. In the long run, the loss of the PTS will be very expensive for them ... And if we can pull of a hit against the HGP their entire game plan will be over.

	18-02-2005 23:44									#24
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Looks like we'll get the turn around 11:00 pm or midnight tonight Pacific Coast time (8 or 9 on Saturday morning in Europe)

How does a Saturday 6:00 am Pacific // 9.00 am US East Coast // 2 - 4 pm Europe "live invasion" sound to all?

Here's the Command Center directions

	18-02-2005 23:51									#25
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Well, all the new Rec Commons will not exactly help their build queues. A big part of thet drop might be permanent.

But still, a bigger follow-up will be necessary IMO.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie How does a Saturday 6:00 am Pacific // 9.00 am US East Coast // 2 - 4 pm Europe "live invasion" sound to all?

Sounds good to me.

	19-02-2005 00:03									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie How does a Saturday 6:00 am Pacific // 9.00 am US East Coast // 2 - 4 pm Europe "live invasion" sound to all?

Yes I think I can make it

	19-02-2005 00:25									#27
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Barring any unexpected problem, I'll be with you to follow the invasion Live from Klenda... hem, from Morgania!

	19-02-2005 02:01									#28
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The fleet is but a scant few hours away ...............

Attachment: pts raid force.jpg
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	19-02-2005 02:05									#29
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As dawn breaks, the SCC GeneralTacticus engages the Morgan Plasma Hovercraft:

Attachment: missiles.jpg
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	19-02-2005 05:05									#30
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Whoa, when did we arm the fleet with conventional missles? Cool!

I have a feeling that the Morganites won't be the only ones in for a shock. I'm sure the others will be plenty alarmed when they see the yellow superpower take a dive in the powergraph.