15-03-2005 12:34									#31
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Neural Grafting is level 4, and Environmental Economics is level 5. Don't we have a Lord of Progress somewhere around here...?

	15-03-2005 12:45									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Mead: Spartans Have fielded Needlejet Equiped Air Force The title says it all. We'll try to send you screenshots. More info to follow. Mead __________________ Chief Diplomatic Officer (CDO), Morgan Corporation, ACDG III

quote: Originally posted by Mead: Do we Stand Together or do we Fall? Dear Data Angels and Gaians: As we informed you earlier, we are troubled to inform you that the Spartans have now fielded an air force. We can provide screenshoots of a B-6 Hardened Spartan Needlejet in flight. The Corporation has been presented with couple of choices. One, immediate capitualtion to the Spartans. We can either become the Spartan Pet, or allow the Spartan forces to enter and occupy our bases on by one. Or, two, death within 4 turns. Most, if not all of our members can join the victorious Spartan empire. That can happen. Instead of the above, we could continue to carry on the fight if we have the complete and total cooperation of the Gaians and DA. As I have been saying over the past few turns, perhaps, if we all enter into a three way Pact and coordinate our defensive and tech research we might be able to hold off the Spartan advance. Without complete and total cooperation we might as well go over to the Spartans. The game won't turn out any differently, but at least it will end a little sooner and we'll have a little more fun (maybe they'll let us drive/fly a few of the planes). Please let us know soon so we can make our decision. PS Even with all of us cooperating together it is questionable whether any of us will live, but at least we can try. __________________ Chief Diplomatic Officer (CDO), Morgan Corporation, ACDG III

I must say, I'm rather skeptical of their total panic, and their claims are dubious. The Spartans may very well have needlejets; in fact, I'd expect it. Now, how do they get those planes to the Morganites? Their starting continent isn't near enough, and they haven't conquered a Hive base as far as I can tell. If they can attack the Morganites, it must be from University territory. Even from there, needlejets can barely reach the continent. The Spartans can't actually conquer anything since it'll just be probed away.

	15-03-2005 13:20									#33
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quote: As a result of the deal, we'd receive one tech of immediate important (EnvEco), and two techs of middling importance, one from the Morganites and one from normal research. The Morganites would receive one tech. We'd be in their debt, given the tech counts, though this may be inevitable.

Debt? I've never considered such deals as debt, unless someone states otherwise. So we should ask them for approval that they won't be inclining us to give back our debt.

quote: Neural Grafting is level 4, and Environmental Economics is level 5. Don't we have a Lord of Progress somewhere around here...?

Im here!

	15-03-2005 13:23									#34
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quote: I must say, I'm rather skeptical of their total panic, and their claims are dubious. The Spartans may very well have needlejets; in fact, I'd expect it. Now, how do they get those planes to the Morganites? Their starting continent isn't near enough, and they haven't conquered a Hive base as far as I can tell. If they can attack the Morganites, it must be from University territory. Even from there, needlejets can barely reach the continent. The Spartans can't actually conquer anything since it'll just be probed away.

I think you miss 1 case:

The Spartans have done atrocities, therefore they have no difference in doing even more. A 6x-1-10 NJ can easily kill a SP if the turnplayer haven't removed garrison from the base containing it (which I expect from Morganic turnplayers, giving they didn't kill road upon sighting Spartan transport).

The maximum range of a NJ is 19, not 9

	15-03-2005 16:26									#35
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin The maximum range of a NJ is 19, not 9

Yes but if it moves 19 then it crashes and burns before Morgan can take a screenshot.

	15-03-2005 17:14									#36
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Please see Lordship of Progress thread for a discussion of the tech trade.

	15-03-2005 19:49									#37
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The point about a 6x-1-10 is valid. I'm not accustomed to players committing atrocities and didn't think of that. However, if the Morganites spotted a nerve gas needlejet, I would have expected them to mention that. Without nerve gas, the maximum range of 19 tiles is irrelevant, since the Spartans can't inflict significant damage with non-nerve gas kamikaze attacks.

	15-03-2005 20:41									#38
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quote: The point about a 6x-1-10 is valid. I'm not accustomed to players committing atrocities and didn't think of that. However, if the Morganites spotted a nerve gas needlejet, I would have expected them to mention that. Without nerve gas, the maximum range of 19 tiles is irrelevant, since the Spartans can't inflict significant damage with non-nerve gas kamikaze attacks.

It takes only one turn and 50 ECs (IIRC) to upgrade to gas.

And it takes 2-3 planes to take out another Morgan SP..

	15-03-2005 22:31									#39
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Yeah, like I said, I was just guessing. The DAs recently contacted me, with this PM.

quote: I suppose your faction has received it as well, since the header was directed to both of us. May I ask how the Gaian Council perceives this 'ultimatum'? To me it sounds that the Morgans want us to choose between them as allies in a forced 3-way pact, or as adversaries on the side of the Spartans. Regards, IT GeoModder

	15-03-2005 22:48									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Mead: Re: Do we Stand Together or do we Fall? quote: Chaos Theory wrote on 15-03-2005 02:50: Again, we are considering your claims, but find your proposed tech trade odd, since Neural Grafting doesn't make a particularly effective defense against needlejets. The two major ways to defend against or counter air are AAA and SAM. The former is available with AMA, which is not within easy reach. The latter is available with D:AP, for which you have both prereqs and we have one prereq. Also, in addition to us being able to get DAP from the Hive, as you can see, we are researching NG now. If we can research NG through your efforts then we'll swap to something else, we get DAP from the Hive then we can get a whole bunch of stuff through our efforts. And, if the DA wants to work with us we might be able to make this happen a lot sooner. Mead PS I notice that you have an artifact. Do you need some cash to rush a Net Node to plug that artifact in? __________________ Chief Diplomatic Officer (CDO), Morgan Corporation, ACDG III

A small problem with their proposition: they're currently set to finish research in 18 years, well beyond the end of the world in 2167 they claim. D:AP from the Hive is valid, but independent from any trading.

	15-03-2005 22:54									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Mead: Leapfrogging Choas How does this sound for a plan? We send you Env Eco and SotHB; You switch to NG (no loss of lab points); We send you enough cash so you can rush a net node in the base where your artifact is (or at least one move away); If we can get DAP before you hook up the artifact to the node then we send it to you (unless your probes got it DAP first); We send you all the techs we have before you cash in the artifact; You cash in your artifact and send the tech you get to us; We rush a net node in one of our bases, get the artifact back home and hook our artifact to it and send the tech to you; If we have time and we do this right we should get 3 or four, mayby five techs real quick. If the DA cooperate we might even get more. Mead PS Without the DA's cooperation it might not be worth it for us. PPS Even with the DA's cooperation we may not survive. If we only had 8 more turns. If, if, if, if. __________________ Chief Diplomatic Officer (CDO), Morgan Corporation, ACDG III

This sounds like an odd proposition.

	16-03-2005 06:43									#42
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They have an artifact too?

	16-03-2005 16:53									#43
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If Morgan can get D:AP from the Hive then why are they in panic mode?

	16-03-2005 22:22									#44
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Probably because it isn't a sure thing, and the time it takes for them to get D: AP and produce interceptors is a fairly long time. They probably still are overreacting, or at least, publically are...

	17-03-2005 00:17									#45
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This talk of total cooperation reminds me of the Spartans' proposal to jointly rush to Fusion Power...

	17-03-2005 00:36									#46
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It the senario they propose, with Neural Grafting from us and D:AP probed from the Hive, will they be in position to go for MMI and the CBA? Maybe this is their hidden agenda.

Last edited by Net Warrior on 17-03-2005 at 03:53

	17-03-2005 03:28									#47
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BTW CBA has been destroyed/disallowed. I say we publicly buy into their panic, and say - oh my god we've got to stop Sparta - we'll do anything to help you Morgan. Please give us your techs and some cash for a NN and we'll hook up the AA and start researching NG for you. We can even offer to probe Hive for AP as well. All that's what we _tell_ them. What we actually do though is maybe we give them one of the techs (say D:AP - or some weaker of that one and the one from the AA) They're panicing enough for us to take advantage of their genorisity. I'm not quite sure how to keep friendly with Morgan/DA after such an advantage taking, but I'm sure we've got some diplomats here who could talk their way through this.

Last edited by freshman on 17-03-2005 at 05:13

	29-03-2005 07:31									#48
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If, like, anyone ever comes to this forum.... From what I know, the Spartan Vendetta with Morgan has been extended to Gaia. We have two wars, I believe.

	29-03-2005 20:32									#49
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Oh, that is good to know. Has anyone played the turn yet and confirmed the Vendetta?

If so, any one know what the trigger point was?

	29-03-2005 22:06									#50
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Trigger point was - they were trying to slip units throught to our mainland, which our foil blocked, so they had to attack from North.

	04-04-2005 21:28									#51
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quote: I had earlier proposed to Gaia that we give you all of our tech, you give us all of your tech, we loan you enough cash to rush a net node for the artifact you have you share that tech with us, then we rush a net node for the artifact we have and we share that tech with you. This way we could really leapfrog tech wise. Gaia didn't respond so I thought you were not interested I have not been that active with the game recently (having thought that Sparta already won it) but I can check with my team to see if they are still interested. Mead PS BTW We expect to acquire DAP very shortly. If so, I believe that would be included in the techs we would share with you. PPS I am not sure all this is worth the effort unless we can get the DA to cooperate with the 3 way pact to try to counter the Spartans.

	05-04-2005 18:38									#52
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Forgive my ignorance, but my wife has been particularly busy, and having to chase a 3 and a 1 year old around has left me no time to game, but.....

I know understand we are now in a Pact with the Morganites. As such we have their map and can see there city production and such. If they really are in as much trouble as they claim, then we should actively court the DA to join us. It would be as much in there own good as ours.

If we can get D:AP from one of them, we can keep air patrols out looking for (and sinking) incoming transports and gun ships. That will keep the pressure off having to build a large defense.

	05-04-2005 18:48									#53
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The Spartans' transports can move so fast (7 tiles), that we'll have a hard time picking them off en route. However, a few planes, mixed with other forces, could really hurt invading Spartan troops. Keep in mind that although their troops are better than ours by a lot, we should still be able to win most attacks in the open, and we have an industry edge of two or three points.

	05-04-2005 19:00									#54
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True, but if we have each city build 2 jets each and put them on rotating patrols, straight out and back in the direction of the most likely strike points, will cover ourselves in the most efficient manner. Fission jets have a range of 12, right? Then assume 2 tiles to reach the shore, plus the 7 tiles a Spartan transport can cover.....that still leaves us a 3 tile discovery zone. Not a lot, but enough to find em and sink em.

Last edited by livid imp on 05-04-2005 at 19:08

	05-04-2005 21:15									#55
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Fission jets have 10

	06-04-2005 18:19									#56
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Well, that'll have to do then, we could still get lucky. Anything we take down in the water, are forces we don't have to face on land when they can fight back.

	07-04-2005 05:16									#57
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So tell them that we're interested? That what you guys think?

	07-04-2005 05:20									#58
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Yes, let's get all the tech we can gather in order to combat Sparta.

	07-04-2005 11:30									#59
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quote: So tell them that we're interested? That what you guys think?

Im definitely FOR it.

	07-04-2005 11:31									#60
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But there's a problem, we need to work it out as we Angels proposed - we get EnvEcon from DA and SFF from Morgan, then we research D:AP and give to both.

The point is we don't have an AA anymore to execute the plan above - I already said, I used the AA for prototyping Plasma.