21-02-2005 00:25									#1
	Rule amendment - turn playing times - article 1 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I start this poll because the last two turns have been outside the 48 hour time limit, and all teams but Sparta have used their warning and will be penalised from the next turn. The question is, is 48 hours too short? Even being short of members, I would have thought 48 hours would be enough time, baring any exceptional activity, however this does not seem to be the case. Either teams are making sure they use the whole 48 hours, in case anyone wants to comment, and sometimes going over, or teams really require more time. If the former, may I suggest some form of contingancy plan, and if the latter, maybe the deadlines do need altering.

This poll has two parts:

This poll is for Article 1:

"Should the deadline be extended?" with options

Yea
Nay

For Article 2, please see Article 2

If the first article fails, the deadline will stay at 48 hours. There is no abstain for article one, as the YEAs must get over 50% to pass, meaning an abstain is no different from a no.

Edit: Please note the poll will last for 3 days.

Last edited by Drogue on 21-02-2005 at 02:25

	21-02-2005 01:14									#2
	Got spare money?

I keep on getting the same message:

quote: Forum Message The action you have attempted could not be performed as your session appears to be invalid. Click the below link to attempt this action again with a new session.

whenever I try voting.

My public vote is extend the deadline by at least 24 hours.


The game is getting more complicated as time goes by. There's a lot more units, a lot more diplomacy, and a lot more things going on than when we started the game.


For myself, and my team, Real Life is affecting our ability to play, and stay within the 48 hour limit.


The ability of all to participate and ENJOY the game is what most of of seek from playing. Keeping the time limit to the old 48 hour limit really hinders people's ability to play and enjoy the game.

I vote to extend the limit by at least 24 hours. I further say we should grant Drouge (or the stand-in Drouge if Real Life requires him to take so time off) the ability to grant further extensions, on a case by case, if merited.


Mead


PS

I am responsible for the recent Morgan delay.
The recent delay in the Morgan turn resulted from me having to attend to Real Life obligations (before the 48 hour time limit was up) and I wasn't able to have the turn properly reviewed and posted before I had to log off. Fortunately, Jtsisyoda was able to get the turn finished and posted.

PPS
I enjoy the game, but like most everyone else, I have to balance the game with Real Life. Please don't make it so that I can't continue enjoy or play the game.

	21-02-2005 01:57									#3
	Got spare money?

It seems the poll is single-choice. Would be pretty hard to vote on both articles this way...

	21-02-2005 02:18									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 It seems the poll is single-choice. Would be pretty hard to vote on both articles this way...

Crap, you're right! Let's split the polling then

	21-02-2005 02:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Mead I keep on getting the same message: The ability of all to participate and ENJOY the game is what most of of seek from playing. Keeping the time limit to the old 48 hour limit really hinders people's ability to play and enjoy the game.

If this is the case, an extension is needed. Before I found that it was meaning turn was so slow that it wasn't enjoyable, and we lost members that way.

quote: Originally posted by Mead I further say we should grant Drouge (or the stand-in Drouge if Real Life requires him to take so time off) the ability to grant further extensions, on a case by case, if merited.

Just to note, this is already the case. If there is a reason, contact me by PM and extensions have and will be granted

	21-02-2005 03:14									#6
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Among the Gaians, the turn could be played faster than it currently is, for most turns. We take advantage of the current allowed time to allow as many members as possible to provide input. Occasionally, diplomacy or other special events will require a longer turn, but that's what the extensions are for.

	21-02-2005 03:15									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue If this is the case, an extension is needed. Before I found that it was meaning turn was so slow that it wasn't enjoyable, and we lost members that way. ***

I agree that in the early years of the game it did not take much time to do a turn (there were so few bases to manage, so few units to move and no diplomacy or warfare to conduct) and even taking the full 48 hour limit was a little excesssive and led to a boring game.

Now there's so much to do, that it takes a lot of time to work it and it keeps you busy.



Mead

	21-02-2005 03:46									#8
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I voted "yeah" to support my comrade (cough) board member Mead. I would like to note, though, that fast turns when there's a lot to do often necessitate "executive decisions."

	21-02-2005 04:27									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Mead I agree that in the early years of the game it did not take much time to do a turn (there were so few bases to manage, so few units to move and no diplomacy or warfare to conduct) and even taking the full 48 hour limit was a little excesssive and led to a boring game. Now there's so much to do, that it takes a lot of time to work it and it keeps you busy.

I do accept turns take much longer as the game goes on, however by earlier I meant in the last game. Even at this stage I found faster turnplaying meant we kept more members and had more fun, though I do accept the need for teamplay. Which is why I'm undecide about this being a good idea, and am letting the poll decide

	21-02-2005 10:31									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think that the current deadline is just fine

If delays - for whatever reason - are anticipated, the Mods can always be contacted for an extension

As it is right now, we see a turn about once a week. I for one would lose a lot of interest if it became 2 turns every 3 weeks

And there are ways to streamline the turnplaying process (by agreeing on build orders, movement orders, etc in the down time so that the 2 days are used for execution and contingency action/reaction - which admittedly does need team input from time to time)

At least that's how we do it in Sparta, anyways - we meet in a chatroom during periods when we are all available and twhen there are momentus decisions to be made on the spot

	21-02-2005 16:25									#11
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As, unfortunatelly, the offender of the 48 hour rule I voted NAY. I feel the time is just correct. During my turnplayer period I was available for turn download, its preparation for discussion and execution within the time we expected the turn. Being late most often comes from the fact that knowing the deadline we just could use the time for additional thoughts about the turn, input from members who has not posted yet. When being close to the deadline some unexpected occurances may hapen - and then we are over it suddenly.

There are cases when more time would be really needed - diplomacy with other factions when numerous times diplomatic notes are forwarded to other teams, need to be read by several members, answers need to formulated, etc. Sometimes this cannot be done in between turns. For example, we open the turn and find something in there, then we have to discuss it with faction X yet before pushing "End turn". Does it happen often? Probably from time to time. It all depends on the situation.

I think that a lot may be done in between turns, if players and turnplayers can make the effort to do it. Within our faction I remember that Geo was doing it and I, unfortunatelly, kinda dropped it since I was no longer asking that early questions about next turn, but I think this is great approach. OTOH, no special preparation is actually needed. Players can post their thoughts on the turns, propostions any time they wish. Making conditional plans requires maybe more time and effort, but this is extremely multiplayer game. Noone needs to do it all the time. There can be other team members to take over any task of planning.

In short, 48 hours appears in most cases to be ok. Extensions may be granted when requested, maybe more often now since times on the planet become more interesting.

	21-02-2005 18:21									#12
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Voted Nay as well, for in my experience 48 hours is enough time to deal with a turn in most cases.

	21-02-2005 18:22									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie And there are ways to streamline the turnplaying process (by agreeing on build orders, movement orders, etc in the down time so that the 2 days are used for execution and contingency action/reaction - which admittedly does need team input from time to time)

Exactly. Large unexpected decisions require extra time, and it will be granted. But in a turn when there isn't anything unexpected, the rest could be discussed so that the turn can be played as soon as the turnplayer gets online. True, that very rarely does nothing unexpected happen, but that's why we allow 48 hours.
The play is slow as it is, the game has been going a year or so and we're in 2161.

	21-02-2005 18:27									#14
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The game has barely been going 3 seasons, Drogue...

	21-02-2005 18:56									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory Occasionally, diplomacy or other special events will require a longer turn, but that's what the extensions are for.

Actually AFAIK diplomacy has never been a reason to allow an extension. Correct?

Anyway, I'm perfectly fine with the current deadline. As Googlie says, you can prepare most of the moves for your next turn beforehand, meaning you only have to deal with unexpected and emergency situations during those 48 hours.

	21-02-2005 19:28									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Actually AFAIK diplomacy has never been a reason to allow an extension. Correct?

Correct. Special events, ie. something large and unexpected in the turn, RL problems, etc. are reasons. Normal activies, such as diplomacy happening to take a bit longer than expected, has not warranted extensions.