28-02-2005 22:02									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

jtsisyoda

Can you send Gaia and DA Pacts preapproved?

I told them we would send them to them.

It is my hope that they accept the Pacts.

I don't know if they will accept them.


Mead


PS

I deeply apologize to all for my poor performance as turnplyer.

The way I see it, in the past three turns I have been responsible for two delays of game and the loss of Morgan Industries.

PPS

I had stated a few weeks ago that although I could do two turns as turnplayer before RL would get real busy for me in March. I won't be able to continue in an active role.




Should the Board desire, I will turn in my shares and withdraw from both the faction and the game.

	28-02-2005 22:07									#32
	Suffering from ads?

I guess you just had the ultimate bad luck in taking over at that particular time. How many turns earlier may the Spartans have started what became their strike into our heart? Five? Even more? It's not your fault and your diplomatic work was and still is awesome.

What are we gonna do without our star diplomat? (Do we have any other diplomats? Never mind... )

	01-03-2005 02:25									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

AndiD has a point. It was just bad luck.

quote: AndiD: It's not your fault and your diplomatic work was and still is awesome.

so true. I nominate Mead for Morgan Industries' first ever payrise!

quote: Mead: Should the Board desire, I will turn in my shares and withdraw from both the faction and the game.

Well, I'm sure I speak for the board when I say I don't want to see you leave.

Also, who's up for the next turnplayer shift? We need to quickly see who is available and active and poll it with haste. I'd be up for it, but I can't promise miracles.

Also also, from Mead's post, it sounds like you're not going to be able to conduct diplomacy for us anymore. Please confirm or deny and we can organise a replacement.

-- CTO #endgame

	01-03-2005 05:18									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I must remind the faction that a deadline extension was granted because of the reload message, though I'm not sure why it can't be posted still. The extension was not for extra diplomacy. Now the extension has run out. Please post the turn ASAP, I'd hate for this game to be partly decided by my pressing end turn, as has been requested following the rules.

	01-03-2005 06:31									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Drogue I must remind the faction that a deadline extension was granted because of the reload message, though I'm not sure why it can't be posted still. The extension was not for extra diplomacy. Now the extension has run out. Please post the turn ASAP, I'd hate for this game to be partly decided by my pressing end turn, as has been requested following the rules.

D@*n,

I though I was off the hook for posting the d@*n thing.

I will post the turn.

Please note that I have tried to get the reload warning off the turn and after I thought jtisisyoda posted thhe would do the turn I deleted the file in an attempt to get rid of the reload warning.

I WILL play the turn and post the turn reload warnings and all. For the record, from the beginning I said was not going to do any pod popping, nor was I going to do any probe actions (with the exception of an infiltration of any PK base I find).

I'll take on last look at the turn thread, look to see if jtsisyoda is online, and if he is not I will play and post the D@*n Turn.


Mead

	01-03-2005 07:41									#36
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I played and Posted the Turn.

I did it in a hurry because I didn't want us to get an 'Turn Complete' done by Drouge.

I acted as a caretaker.

Offered preaccepted Pacts to Gaia and DA.
Made Truce with Yang (gave SF and SoHB).
Made Truce with Zak (gave him nothing).

Moved SW foil west. Didn't find any Uni base.
Retreated CP near CoT north.
Didn't get to the Formers in time to more them north before they used their movemen point.
Rushed just about everything I could.
Made HQ in Impaler? (the base jtsisyoda said to) rushed it so it finishes in 1 turn.

Raised psych to 30%. Reallocated doctors to prevent riots, a couple of bases might starve.

Cashed a crawler to rush a missile infantry at or near SSR. (finishes next turn, has 5 'red' mins let over).

Moved eastern gatorboat further east and plasma furhter east. Yeah, they are targets but I want a better chance of an earlier warning.

Upgraded just about everything I could to plasma trance.

Started a number of SC's we NEED Mins to hold of the Spartan invasion. I don't know if they will be producing in time to make defenders in time to hold off the Spartans. I think they won't, but I'm trying.

Moved towards old Morg Ind. site the CP near Mead Metal.

Established a base with the 90% damaged CP.

Woke up a Mindworm east of Agri. I was checking to ensure ther were no rovers left in the fungus.

Moved several units towards monoliths. If the Spartans attack us now they can walk right in.

I am gambling.

If we survive this turn we are better prepared to defend ourselves next turn.

If they have a rover laden transport in the fungus near RFR they we are deadmeat.

At least we will be deadmeat one turn sooner than if we did move the garrisons to the monoliths to get an upgrade. With the upgrades we might survive.



Concerns for next turn. They still have that transport and crusier of the west coast. I suspect that there is at least one rover on that cruiser. I don't know what else is coming at us.


Mead

	01-03-2005 07:58									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Mead.

Did well for a rushed turn.

I'm happy to (try to) take the reins next turn, barring major RL catastrophe.

-- CTO #endgame

	01-03-2005 08:07									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by #endgame Mead. Did well for a rushed turn. I'm happy to (try to) take the reins next turn, barring major RL catastrophe. -- CTO #endgame

I favor you serving as Turnplayer next turn. Unless someone else objects, the mission is yours.


I will download the turn (if I can) and review it. I will also try to make myself available to you to discuss the turn when it comes down.

Mead

	01-03-2005 08:55									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

As I posted in the turn tracking thread:

quote: Ack. A million apologies. I thought I was going to have time in those next two hours to do the turn. I was wrong and had to rush off to work without so much as an explanation. This is not an excuse, but I've been trying to unload the turnplaying to prevent this very thing which I knew might occur as RL has caught up to me. A million and one apologies now.

And...

quote: A million and two apologies to the team for letting them down when we needed to get the turn out and I said I would but didn't. A million and three to Mead for putting him on the spot here and not covering for him when I said I would. A million and four to Drogue for putting him in the difficult position of possibly penalizing our team for my mistake. A million and five to Sparta for making it difficult for them to confer in a reasonable and scheduled manner which the rules give them a right to.

	01-03-2005 09:00									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Thank you so much #endgame. You're saving us.

I also want to add that if anyone is to blame for Sparta taking our capital, it's me. All of my MP games but one have gone a similar way... too buildery and not out there infiltrating to get a hint when the opposition might strike.

	01-03-2005 12:30									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I can also take turnplayer duties now - hey, I even have started looking for a PBEM again.

	01-03-2005 21:36									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ok, thanks, AndiD. I suggest you and #endgame hammer out if you want to alternate, or have one as a backup, or whatever.

	01-03-2005 21:40									#43
	Support Apolyton

Okay, took a deep look at the last two turns. Some smaller and bigger thoughts:

- Yoda Soda needs a non-attorney land unit as defense against the laser cruiser waiting at the top of the map

- We now know all factions and could call a Governor voting for Lal. Should we do it?
Current population:
Yang: 89
Lal: 25 (50 votes!)
Sparta: 48
we: 41
Angels: 29
Gaia: 27
Zak: 5 (voted Lal)

- I contacted Zak, he wanted Superconductor for world map (sounded good but couldn't accept it of course), wanted superconductor against a crisis (still didn't give anything) and wanted a treaty for nothing afterwards. We should try and contact him next time around, hoping, that he hasn't changed his mood and maybe even get his map. He has SFF (has he?) so Superconductor is a nice gimmick (leading to Fusion but that is WAY in the future).

- We now seem to be in a "tech stag" phase, with Yang being the leader in tech advances. It will be interesting what he researches next time (currently none - I guess he researched SFF). For the next ten years, every tech advance would come from him via techstealing then.

Rationale: our tech advance is really slow (but still second overall I assume), Sparta runs Fundy/Planned (neither tech nor money), Angels and Gaia both run Planned & are way behind and Lal and Zak have too little population for any effective research although they run Market.

- We should do a defense list base by base (I can start one later). This would include selected offensive land and naval units.

- Regarding bases, I would vote for a reorganization and even some infrastructure builds.

I could imagine reorganizing bases into mineral and energy focused bases:
Mineral bases focus on minerals (crawlers!), building and "hosting" units, getting RecTanks (+1 mineral) and maybe creches for morale boost.
Energy bases focus on energy and nutrients, in that order (again, via crawlers). They get RecTanks, NetNodes, RHs and maybe even RecCommons and Creches. Mid-term goal is to bring at least these bases to population level 4.

- Mineral bases would also rebuild formers ASAP for sensor nets.

- My personal general strategy right now would be a slow consolidation effort - keeping the tech stag in mind, finishing the expansion (and rebuilding of MI) ASAP, building defenses, patrols and infrastructure in a balanced way. One major instrument of balancing could be the relation of mineral to energy focus bases (if we choose to do so).

- Does it make sense to keep 200? 300? credits on hand for Sparta high-end Fundy unit subversion or shall just aim to kill them and invest like there is no tomorrow hoping to avoid exactly such a situation?

Whew, that was long.

	01-03-2005 22:56									#44
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by AndiD Okay, took a deep look at the last two turns. Some smaller and bigger thoughts:

Thanks.

quote: - Yoda Soda needs a non-attorney land unit as defense against the laser cruiser waiting at the top of the map

What good will that do?

quote: - We now know all factions and could call a Governor voting for Lal. Should we do it? Current population: Yang: 89 Lal: 25 (50 votes!) Sparta: 48 we: 41 Angels: 29 Gaia: 27 Zak: 5 (voted Lal)

I was thinking perhaps Yang. See below.

quote: - I contacted Zak, he wanted Superconductor for world map (sounded good but couldn't accept it of course), wanted superconductor against a crisis (still didn't give anything) and wanted a treaty for nothing afterwards. We should try and contact him next time around, hoping, that he hasn't changed his mood and maybe even get his map. He has SFF (has he?) so Superconductor is a nice gimmick (leading to Fusion but that is WAY in the future).

Yes, he has SFF

quote: - We now seem to be in a "tech stag" phase, with Yang being the leader in tech advances. It will be interesting what he researches next time (currently none - I guess he researched SFF). For the next ten years, every tech advance would come from him via techstealing then.

If we helped Yang become governor then that should help his tech rate. Then we (as well as everyone else) would be able to tech steal.

quote: Rationale: our tech advance is really slow (but still second overall I assume), Sparta runs Fundy/Planned (neither tech nor money), Angels and Gaia both run Planned & are way behind and Lal and Zak have too little population for any effective research although they run Market.

But, the Spartans can still pop pods and get artifacts, yes?

quote: - We should do a defense list base by base (I can start one later). This would include selected offensive land and naval units. - Regarding bases, I would vote for a reorganization and even some infrastructure builds. I could imagine reorganizing bases into mineral and energy focused bases: Mineral bases focus on minerals (crawlers!), building and "hosting" units, getting RecTanks (+1 mineral) and maybe creches for morale boost. Energy bases focus on energy and nutrients, in that order (again, via crawlers). They get RecTanks, NetNodes, RHs and maybe even RecCommons and Creches. Mid-term goal is to bring at least these bases to population level 4. - Mineral bases would also rebuild formers ASAP for sensor nets. - My personal general strategy right now would be a slow consolidation effort - keeping the tech stag in mind, finishing the expansion (and rebuilding of MI) ASAP, building defenses, patrols and infrastructure in a balanced way. One major instrument of balancing could be the relation of mineral to energy focus bases (if we choose to do so). - Does it make sense to keep 200? 300? credits on hand for Sparta high-end Fundy unit subversion or shall just aim to kill them and invest like there is no tomorrow hoping to avoid exactly such a situation? Whew, that was long.

I like the development plan. We need mins. I'm not sure about running a large energy balance. I used up all of the energy we had, one to quickly bolster our defenses, and two to deny Sparta any free cash if they captured one or more of our bases.


Mead

	01-03-2005 23:10									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ha, just checked and cruisers cannot capture bases. Something I forgot over the last months of virtually no SMAXing (did I know that ever? anyway...)

Why does just becoming governor help one's tech rate? His only trading partner is Zak (gasp!). But there's no real need for a benevolent governor at all, or is there?

Sparta can pop pods and get artifacts but that is rather random and it is not very probable to get a tech towards D:AP from a pod. (There are tons of crappy tech choices available ATM) They need a net node for using artifacts and even we had only one 'node from a materials pod. I would call it neglectable. (if there are any pods left for them, after all. I mean, they had rovers from the beginning and Flex pretty much after it and perhaps 2-3 ships around in the wild)

I'll start drafting a few plans then...

	01-03-2005 23:14									#46
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by AndiD *** Why does just becoming governor help one's tech rate? His only trading partner is Zak (gasp!). But there's no real need for a benevolent governor at all, or is there?

Doesn't he get an extra EC per base because of being governor?


Mead

	02-03-2005 00:13									#47
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Not that I would know - and it doesn't seem like it in testing. Only commerce is affected.

A good news for me - didn't realize until now that one third of our energy production is currently wasted in inefficiency without a HQ - have never lost a HQ before. Next tech will be in about 13 years if I estimated correctly and maybe we can go down to 20% psych.

What were the destinations for the CP south at Choke On This and for the eastern CP? I thought about dropping below the second b-limit but even size 1 bases are good energy producers and worthless when conquered (they simply vanish) so I would keep our "Eastside" as basic as it is and concentrate the former efforts elsewhere.

What is the Plasma Hoverboat in the South doing? Just standing and watching? (If I activate Fog of War, it seems that it could move down one square and watch the entire water area? Or does it see nothing while in the fungus?)

	02-03-2005 02:06									#48
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by AndiD Not that I would know - and it doesn't seem like it in testing. Only commerce is affected. A good news for me - didn't realize until now that one third of our energy production is currently wasted in inefficiency without a HQ - have never lost a HQ before. Next tech will be in about 13 years if I estimated correctly and maybe we can go down to 20% psych.

I thought whenever you got governor you got another EC per base. I think that's what message says whenever you get governor.

Our new HQ should be finished at the start of next turn.

quote: What were the destinations for the CP south at Choke On This and for the eastern CP?

Southern CP was to plant a few spaces below CoT toe extend territory and give us more breathing room from Yang.

The eastern ones were to develope our eastern area.

quote: I thought about dropping below the second b-limit but even size 1 bases are good energy producers and worthless when conquered (they simply vanish) so I would keep our "Eastside" as basic as it is and concentrate the former efforts elsewhere.

I want to concentrate our formers on the volcano and get as many 6min mine squares as soon as possible.

quote: What is the Plasma Hoverboat in the South doing? Just standing and watching? (If I activate Fog of War, it seems that it could move down one square and watch the entire water area? Or does it see nothing while in the fungus?)

It should see just fine in the fungus. I was going to push it further forward and move it around. The Spartans have cruisers that can move 8 spaces per turn. They know where the fungus is. Any invading force from them probably will be accompanied (preceeded) by crusiers searching the fungus. Odd as it may seem, I think we are safer staying out of the fungus. Also, I see the ship just as an expendable target. If we get lucky and manage to kill something with it I'll be elated. If it merely dies a noble death giving us early notice of an invasion I'm satisfied.


Mead

	02-03-2005 02:07									#49
	Increase the size of your Attachments

EDIT DOUBLE POST

	02-03-2005 02:06									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

EDIT TRIPLE POST

	02-03-2005 10:03									#51
	Got spare money?

AndiD, you seem to have a good handle on what's going on. I'm reluctant to play the turn, owing to a extreme lack of SMAX MP experience (my secret shame: I haven't won a transcend level SP game yet ). Are you willing?

-- CTO #endgame

	02-03-2005 12:02									#52
	Increase the size of your Attachments

endgame:
I have only the minigame on record and a few distant SP victories... but I feel confident - I'm motivated to generate a winning position, not that I could ruin an already victorious position...

Mead:
Former and hoverboat plans sound good.

Regarding the choke point, I thought about lowering some land to cut off Yang completely - but only a sea former could do it but we certainly don't have the spare minerals to build one. Let's see what Yang does with his unit there after trucing.

QUESTION: Is it allowed to ask Yang to withdraw his troops as part of parallel diplomacy efforts and see whether he declares Vendetta?

Now a fun part - I would need three base names:
- Eastern base suggestion: AndiD's Ideas
- Southern (2nd choke) base: ?
- Morgan Industries replacement suggestions: Morgan Industries Reloaded - or - Risen from the Ruins (title of the former anthem of (anti-capitalist) Eastern Germany)

	02-03-2005 12:36									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I am also seriously considering Police State for five or ten years:
+ 30 free minerals on founding the three new bases
+ 3 units per base supported to get some crawlers more quickly
o Police doesn't really affect anything (we cannot do Green yet, unfortunately)
- Appallinc Inefficiency (-2) I wonder how much this is gonna cost, as soon as we have an HQ.

I guess this is a candidate for a voting, after someone did the math.
==> As soon as our new turn is posted, everyone is invited to take a look and to compare Dem and PS in regard to income, tech and psych.

	03-03-2005 12:48									#54
	Full PM-box? Change here!

And yet again more thoughts:

I know that technological advances are precious at the moment and we certainly aim for D:AP, Bio-Engineering and AdvMilAlg as top 3 priorities, right?

However, if it will appear that Yang doesn't research Air Power next (and the Spartans won't get airpower for quite a while), does the CDF (with IntInt - Zak researches it in 7 years) sound desirable at all? I'm virtually know nothing about battles in MP games so some input from some veterans would be great.

If Yang doesn't research D:AP next, the choice between D:AP and BioEng will be very hard indeed and at the moment I would be tempted to choose BioEng to get rid of our nasty support problems.

(Sidenote: We need at least two Gators to be sure to techsteal D:AP from Yang as soon as he gets it, since he has Field Modulation and I don't know how the game determines which tech you steal when there is more than one to "choose" from)

	03-03-2005 21:02									#55
	Increase Your PM Length

CDF is great for defense and offense. You can hold conqurered bases a lot better. We did agree not to build it, but I consider that contract void.

I still say DAP is better than clean. Interceptors are great for defense against planes and scouting for enemies.

Good idea considering PS, but check the numbers when the turn comes before making a final decision. PS might be another reason clean isn't as good as DAP.

	06-03-2005 01:36									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

One more question - I'm a bit out of special knowledge at the moment:

What is the advantage of defending 1-3-1 garrisons in comparison to defending Plasma Attorneys - or in other words, what do you get for the extra support mineral?

	06-03-2005 06:42									#57
	Suffering from ads?

They're cheaper to build by quite a bit. Let's call it x mins for the troop discount. For x turns, the support is just paying in installments. Eventually the garrison is more expensive, but only if it lasts a long time. And in our situation, if it lasts a long time, we have little to complain about.

Also, troops are cheaper to rush because they're closer to completion by the time you get 10 mins... so you usually only pay 2.5 or so ec per min, instead of 3 per min for a more expensive probe.

The most important thing about troops vs. probes in our situation is multiple garrisons. If all you have are probe defenders, even with plasma armor, once one probe dies to a conventional unit, all probe defenders die.

Since Sparta has missile technology, plasma units have to be considered cheap fodder, IMO.

Another problem is that a regular probe, 3 rows, has a 50% chance of defeating any other probe, regardless of expensive armor. (Assuming morale is equal.)

	06-03-2005 20:50									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by AndiD endgame: I have only the minigame on record and a few distant SP victories... but I feel confident - I'm motivated to generate a winning position, not that I could ruin an already victorious position... Mead: Former and hoverboat plans sound good. Regarding the choke point, I thought about lowering some land to cut off Yang completely - but only a sea former could do it but we certainly don't have the spare minerals to build one. Let's see what Yang does with his unit there after trucing. QUESTION: Is it allowed to ask Yang to withdraw his troops as part of parallel diplomacy efforts and see whether he declares Vendetta? Now a fun part - I would need three base names: - Eastern base suggestion: AndiD's Ideas - Southern (2nd choke) base: ? - Morgan Industries replacement suggestions: Morgan Industries Reloaded - or - Risen from the Ruins (title of the former anthem of (anti-capitalist) Eastern Germany)

FU sparta for the replacement base. lets see if we can get them to waste 4 more really expensive rovers trying to take it out in a fit of misguided pride.

	06-03-2005 23:12									#59
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The next turn is here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=130369