28-02-2005 21:13									#1
	Pre Contact tech reserach discussion Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

How shall we research techs in the remainder of the time we have before contact is made?

Edit: Added Map making for completeness

I. Cheapest tech first.

Pros:
1. Ensures any additional techs from goody huts are somewhat more valuable.
2. Maxes the total number of techs we get.

Cons:
1. High probability of heavilly duplicating other players techs, especally on level 1.

2. Minimizes the unique techs we can sell upon discovey.

II. Make The Wheel the priority.

Pros:
1. Gives us knowelge of Horse resource ASAP
2. Realitvely cheap.

Con:
1. Level 1 tech, so could duplicate.

III. Make Iron Working the priority

Pros:
1. Gives us knowelge of Iron resource ASAP
2. May be worth multiple techs in a trade.

Con:
1. Expensive.
2. If we are near other Scientific civs, may duplicate

IV. Beeline to Monarchy

Pros:
1. Gets us out of Despotism ASAP.
2. Gets us the Hanging Gardens
3. If we go this path, we can probably continue it after contacts and sell these techs to multiple people for multiple techs.

Cons:
1. Starting with Polytheism, expensive!

V. Beeline to Literature

Pros:
1. Allows us to build our half price Libaries ASAP

Cons:
1. Expensive path
2. Heavilly duplicates commerical and seafaring civs tech plans

VI. Beeline to Philophacy

Pros:
1. Free tech to first discovering it.

Cons:

1. Expensive path
2. Heavilly duplicates commerical and searfaring civs tech plans
3. High risk of NOT being first and therefore NOT getting a free tech.

VII. Beeline to Map Making

Pros:
1. Can't think of any with what we currently know of the map

Cons:

1. Expensive path
2. Hevailly duplicates seafaring tech plans
3. I don't see any real coast on the map yet, that salt water lake has such good terriagn it doesn't need harbors.

Last edited by joncnunn on 01-03-2005 at 00:28

	01-03-2005 00:19									#2
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There is always the chance for duplication, so it would be sensible to concentrate on the techs that will give us immediate advantage or use.

I have failed in SP and PBEM utlizing the "Beeline to Literature". I guess I have been too tempted to build the Great Library at the expense of a proper military.

So my default answer is IRON -- however, there are many viable paths as joncnunn has laid out. Nice work by the way jon

	01-03-2005 00:35									#3
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The hope for the discussion is also to narrow down the options so we don't have more choices on the tech polls than team members.

There is some colapsing though in terms of next tech.

I think the cheapest tech is Masonry at 4.

Horseback riding is 5.

Iron Working costs 6.

The next tech in the Monarchy path is Polythesim (12). Monarchy is 24.

The next thee options all start with Alphabet (5) and Writting (8) before branching.

Edit: What edit

Last edited by joncnunn on 01-03-2005 at 02:34

	01-03-2005 02:07									#4
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Actually, some of the tech costs are higher: HBR is 5, Poly is 12, Monarchy is 24.

I'd say our next tech should either be Polytheism or Iron Working.

Polytheism has high tradability - who else, except perhaps another religious civ, would be going for Poly already? - but is not very useful as it only leads to the next era and to Monarchy, which I don't have a very high opinion of in this case. (24 is pretty expensive - 600 beakers on an emperor small map, right? - and we could gain a lot of commerce by skipping it.)

Iron Working has less chance of tradability since other civs are more likely to be going for it, but it's more useful than Polytheism what with revealing Iron on the map.

	01-03-2005 05:09									#5
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jon - nice job on the pros and cons.

And yes - tough decision. I think Philo is out. There will be a crowd going for it. And iron working is a possibility - but we can build bowmen cheaper. Eventually we will need iron - so identifying the source could be key.

And then there is the Poly/Monarchy route, which I am sort of leaning towards. Both jon and Klo have raised the tradability (is that a word??) issue, and we can probably be sure we will be one of the first to get it. By then we will have met many of not all the other civs - this is not a large map - and it is pangaea. I suspect we can probably lock in 3 or 4 good deals for Polytheism, which I know we will not be able to do with IW, or any of the techs on the Philo ladder.

If we were to poll right now - I say Poly and Monarchy.

And yes - I suggest we switch governments, and if and when we get republic, we switch again. Being out of despotism early has the obvious advantage of giving us a leg up on our neighbours, but also clearing the way for our GA if need be.

	01-03-2005 10:03									#6
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Since we are religious, switching governments that often is a reasonable strategy - affordable at least.

Since we are deciding which direction to expand and settle, that's why I thought iron would be useful. We want to beat the other civs to those key spots.

My vote would be IRON - POLY - MONARCHY

	01-03-2005 11:29									#7
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Monarchy has really chafing unit support for an early civ, though it does at least only cost 1 gpt per unit over.

I haven't tried a Monarchy beeline before, though. Perhaps the cost of researching it would be worth it if we switch much earlier than we could to Feudalism. It would certainly make our food situation better... we could have +5 fpt pumps much earlier.

	01-03-2005 15:09									#8
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joncnunn:
* we won't be starting the Monarchy route with Polytheism (12), but with Mysticism (4)
* no civ in this game started with The Wheel, so chances of duplication are fairly low.



The options:

• Iron Working (cost: 6; 0 civs have this as starting tech)
  Swordsman, Iron becomes visible
  
  
• Masonry (4; 4 civs have this as starting tech)
  Palace, City Walls, Pyramids, Outpost
  
  
• Alphabet (5; 1 civ has this as starting tech)
  Curragh
  
  
• The Wheel (4; 0 civs have this as starting tech)
  Chariot, Horses become visible
  
  
• Mysticism (4; 0 civs have this as starting tech)
  Oracle
  

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 01-03-2005 at 15:17

	01-03-2005 20:27									#9
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BFM, We were already currently resarching Mystism and were fully commited to it when I posted.

Beta, tradability isn't in Mirriam Webster nor in goggle:define; congrats for coining this word. Your always free to coin new words when the meaning is obvious, like in that case.

Kloreep, I have strong doubts that even on a direct beeline that support costs would increase more than the reduced corruption & restored lost commerce. All our river cities will gain 1 commerce upon leaving depotism from the city tile alone. Shoot, we might even have cities about to rearch size 7 to start negating the monarchy decreased support.

	01-03-2005 20:29									#10
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Yes, overall I think I'm more in favor of the Monarchy beeline.

	02-03-2005 00:10									#11
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn BFM, We were already currently resarching Mystism and were fully commited to it when I posted.

All the better!

	02-03-2005 03:29									#12
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Beta, tradability isn't in Mirriam Webster nor in goggle:define; congrats for coining this word. Your always free to coin new words when the meaning is obvious, like in that case. Kloreep, I have strong doubts that even on a direct beeline that support costs would increase more than the reduced corruption & restored lost commerce. All our river cities will gain 1 commerce upon leaving depotism from the city tile alone. Shoot, we might even have cities about to rearch size 7 to start negating the monarchy decreased support.

I think the credit for the word goes to Kloreep.

As we get closer - we can do the analysis to see if Monarchy is worth it. In the meantime, we are researching required, and tradable techs.

	02-03-2005 05:10									#13
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Kloreep, I have strong doubts that even on a direct beeline that support costs would increase more than the reduced corruption & restored lost commerce. All our river cities will gain 1 commerce upon leaving depotism from the city tile alone.

Towns only have 1 base commerce... with the river they're right under the limit at 2 commerce.

Though once we start having Cities rather than Towns I believe things do change, even for us non-Commercial civs.

quote: Originally posted by xts3 Shoot, we might even have cities about to rearch size 7 to start negating the monarchy decreased support.

That would be great. If so, Monarchy would definitely be good.