04-03-2005 23:52									#31
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Here's the average earnings per hour in the private sector, considering the impact of inflation.

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	04-03-2005 23:56									#32
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No wonder my family says the late 60's and early 70's were good times...

	04-03-2005 23:58									#33
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And no wonder that Carter got his pink slip after one term.

	04-03-2005 23:59									#34
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man, the stagflation of the late 70's really f*cked us over...

	05-03-2005 00:00									#35
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Do you have anything that shows the same graph with respect to 1982 PPP instead of just 1982 Dollars? Also non-wage compensation can be extremely misleading. The biggest non-wage compensation items are retirement plans and health care. The switch from defined benefit plans to defined contribution plans makes comparisons between retirement plans very difficult. In addition, while the cost (and thus employer contributions) to health care have risen much faster than inflation, the amount of health care that money actually buys has not risen at the same rate for most illnesses. However, medical advances have made the value health care for some illnesses infinitely better than in the past (e.g. high survival rates for things which almost always resulted in rapid death in the past).

	05-03-2005 00:00									#36
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Real wages should pick up again if the economy expands, but the long run trend in real wages isn't keeping up with productivity improvements. That's for sure. I would hate to think what would happen to wages if we return to the productivity growth of the 70s and 80s.

	05-03-2005 00:04									#37
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I don't understand what you're asking, pchang. The inflation number includes a consideration of what you can buy for your money (i.e., a PPP).

quote: In addition, while the cost (and thus employer contributions) to health care have risen much faster than inflation, the amount of health care that money actually buys has not risen at the same rate for most illnesses.

My dad would have died at age 42 with late 60s medical technology. After several angio-plastys, he's 63 now and still going strong. IOW, the health care that his money buys nowadays is substantially "more" than it bought in the 60s.

	05-03-2005 00:04									#38
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Interesting. My red propaganda was wrong. From 1972 to 1996, wages dropped more than 17%, not 10%. Also curious is the continued rise of wages under Shrub, at least until last year, but I'll bet that was caused by gasoline.

	05-03-2005 00:04									#39
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quote: Originally posted by DanS And no wonder that Carter got his pink slip after one term.

OPEC and Iran are CARTER'S fault? The economy has very little to do with who's in office, the Fed has a lot more power than the president, and they f*ck up the economy by being so obsessed with inflation that they cause unemployment to go up.

The crap in the late 70's came from the Middle East, not the White House.

	05-03-2005 00:06									#40
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quote: OPEC and Iran are CARTER'S fault?

Who said it was his fault? You need to refresh your reading comprehension skills.

	05-03-2005 00:07									#41
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I thought that inflation number only included commodity prices and thus, did not include PPP considerations for finished goods (stereos, computers, etc.).

	05-03-2005 00:08									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Who said it was his fault? You need to refresh your reading comprehension skills.

Sorry, I get touchy on the subject because I am sick of people blaming Carter for things that were beyond his control.

	05-03-2005 00:09									#43
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I think all of the inflation figures put out by the US gov't nowadays consider quality or efficiency improvements. Obviously, an index based largely on commodity prices will not be impacted greatly by such a consideration.

	05-03-2005 00:10									#44
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IMO the fall in real wages during the seventies was due to a correction of the tight labor market in the 60s and the baby boomers hitting the job market in the 70s. The stagnation since then is caused by global competition for jobs.

	05-03-2005 00:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by DanS My dad would have died at age 42 with late 60s medical technology. After several angio-plastys, he's 63 now and still going strong. IOW, the health care that his money buys nowadays is substantially "more" than it bought in the 60s.

I see you conveniently glossed over the "most illnesses" part and then skipped the remainder of my quote.

	05-03-2005 00:13									#46
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quote: I see you conveniently glossed over the "most illnesses" part and then skipped the remainder of my quote.

As I did. My apologies.

	05-03-2005 00:15									#47
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The real point is that too much economic analysis is politically tainted. Even more economic analysis is far too simplistic and fails to make meaningful comparisons.

	05-03-2005 00:16									#48
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quote: Originally posted by pchang The real point is that too much economic analysis is politically tainted. Even more economic analysis is far too simplistic and fails to make meaningful comparisons.

So stop being politically tainted and accept the facts.

	05-03-2005 00:16									#49
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quote: Originally posted by pchang The real point is that too much economic analysis is politically tainted. Even more economic analysis is far too simplistic and fails to make meaningful comparisons.

DUH

	05-03-2005 00:20									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious So stop being politically tainted and accept the facts.

You among the blackest of pots.

	05-03-2005 00:23									#51
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quote: Originally posted by pchang You among the blackest of pots.

The real problem is people pretending not to be politically tainted.

Everyone is politically tainted. Claiming that someone is moreso than you is useless.

	05-03-2005 00:32									#52
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Thanks Dans. It seems there's a strong correlation between the rise and fall in the average earnings per hour and who gets elected President in the next four years. If the hourly wage continues to fall as it has this last year, then the Republicans should find themselves losing power.

The only exception I can find is the 2000 election. According to that chart, the Democrat should have won that one. (I guess it goes to show what a horrible job Al Gore did campaigning that he lost under those economic conditions)

Last edited by Thucydides on 05-03-2005 at 00:39

	05-03-2005 00:38									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Thucydides Thanks Dans. It seems there's a strong correlation between the rise and fall in the average earnings per hour and who gets elected President in the next four years. If the hourly wage continues to fall as it has this last year, then the Republicans should find themselves losing power. .

You just noticed that? the President is always the economic scapegoat.

	05-03-2005 00:39									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Thucydides Thanks Dans. It seems there's a strong correlation between the rise and fall in the average earnings per hour and who gets elected President in the next four years. If the hourly wage continues to fall as it has this last year, then the Republicans should find themselves losing power. .

The data from the 90s don't seem to support your conclusion.

	05-03-2005 00:39									#55
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quote: You just noticed that?

Are you always this disagreeable in real life?

	05-03-2005 00:42									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The data from the 90s don't seem to support your conclusion.

The 90's are a fluke, a result of Clinton's charisma and Gingrich's ineptitude.

	05-03-2005 00:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Are you always this disagreeable in real life?

no, I just like to bug people when they make a big deal out of something obvious.

	05-03-2005 01:19									#58
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does my job count?

	05-03-2005 01:22									#59
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Of course, though it is only a part time position with no benefits. But it would boost the hourly wage numbers.

	05-03-2005 02:00									#60
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pchang,

You don't have an argument. As you said yourself, employers have not paid for more health care. They are paying for less in fact because costs have gone up so much.