05-03-2005 11:43									#1
	Babylon Increase the size of your Attachments

Initial Message

quote: Hello, Babylonians, I are glad to know you are our neighbours. We hope we can work together and live peacefully. We have offered you the Masonry and we expect what you can offer in echange for it. We don't hurry to make the trade now. Depending on your current research we can make a trade agreement. We are expecting your answer, Ormuzd, Member of the Ankh-Morpork team

	05-03-2005 11:44									#2
	Initial Response Support Apolyton

quote: Greetings Ankh-Morporks, I am Shogun Gunner, the assigned ambassador to your fine nation from Babylon. We wish no ill will to come between us, as we are a peaceful culture with great interests in art and science, but be warned. If you cross us we will not hesitate to attack. Our goddess Inanna may be of love, but she is also of war. Regarding trade, yes, we would be interested in Masonry. Would you be interested Pottery and Bronze Working in exchange? Perhaps if things go well, our nations can coordinate scientific research to our mutual benefit. Shogun Gunner Ambassador of the Babylonians

	05-03-2005 11:44									#3
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quote: Update Message: Just realized from examining the latest save that you have Pottery already. Let me reconsider what we can offer for Masonry. Shogun

	09-03-2005 20:11									#4
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quote: Sent from Beta Demo Game deal with Babylon Greetings Ormuzd. Beta of Babylon here. Shogun Gunner sends his greetings, but he is busy with his prayers in the temple at this moment. I would like to solidify the deal he proposed. We would like to trade Bronze Working for Masonry - and we will owe you one tech credit - recognizing that Masonry is the more valuable tech. Also - to better co-ordinate our research efforts, we can tell you that we are currently research mysticm and would like to lock in a future trade if possible. We would also like to start discussions on a border arrangmement. With this small world we live in, we would like to avoid any misunderstandings over settlement rights. And a final point - your warrior is headed for our territory. That is fine by us on the understanding that he will not cross into our territory. Furthemore, there is also a goody hut just outside our cultural borders. We ask that you do not approach the hut. It is our plan to pop it with a city settlement. We trust that you can respect our wishes in this regard. Many thanks, and we look forward to an early response from your team. Peace and prosperity! .....Beta

	12-03-2005 22:28									#5
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Sent to SG and Beta:

quote: Greetings to the mighty Babylonians! First of all, let me apologise for the lack of a reply from us. While both me and Ormuzd recieve the message, I have the duty of writing (most) of the messages, and this last week has not been particulary good t me OK, to business (and I'm sorry if I seem blunt at times). We are currently researching the Wheel, and we will have it in less than 7 turns. We would be more than willing to trade Masonry for BW now, and then trade The Wheel fr Myst and 15 gold (to make up for the extra tech point in the original trade). II have not accepted the tech this turn, but if you agree we can starat the trade nest turn. RE: Exploration; Perfect, so long as it applies to both teams... Border treaties, wee would like to look at the lay oof thee land first, if it is all the same with you. We will talk about them in the future, but at the moment we don't have enough infomation. If you wish too chat to us about anything, just call us, and we can meet on IRC. Team AM

	13-03-2005 01:31									#6
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Thanks, Krill. It's so good to be in the same team as you

	14-03-2005 22:21									#7
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quote: Greetings Krill .... The proposed trade sounds fine to us. I have just played the turn and returned the BW-Masonry deal as accepted. Accept at your end and it is done. We also look forward to as future trade for the wheel, as per the terms suggested. We also understand your position regarding the border arrangement - although from our end - there would appear to be a natural border line. We will wait to discuss it though. And we do thank you for respecting the goody hut on our border. If we get a tech from it we will be sure to cut you a favorable deal for it. We look forward to peaceful and productive relations with your nation. Regards ...Beta of Babylon.

Now that is a team that I want as an ally

	15-03-2005 02:02									#8
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indeed...

	05-04-2005 02:00									#9
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quote: Hi beta, This is going to be a rough 'n ready letter, as we need a reply by the time team AM get the save. basically, we don't have a clue what to research next. Everyone has writing, as you already know. We would like you to advise (read: Tell ) us what to research, on the premise that we would trade techs (usual 15g per difference in tech point). We would also like these deals to continue, if possible, up to and including an agreement for research into republic. What you probably don't know, even if someone has told you, is that everyone has HBR and IW. We would love to trade them to you, just make an offer, asa we donn't know what techs, iif any, you are currently holding. (I'll disclose the info now, on trust; you have an iron deposit 89 of Felinicity (or whatever it was called)). Also, we are open to discussion on the boarder now that I am back from my computer troubles. I would have contacted you earlier, but I had no internet connection until yesterday morning. Team AM

What do you think?

	05-04-2005 15:07									#10
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Greetings Krill. We can discuss IW and HBR later. We have considered your letter, and suggest literature, or better yet, construction. Thanks for the info on the iron. We will be in touch soon. Take care. Regards from Babylon. Beta.

	05-04-2005 16:10									#11
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we have already wasted a turn or two on math research. Additionally it is the tech for the Wonder and I'd like to complete it.

	05-04-2005 17:45									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't know if this is the place, but I think we need to have a major change of direction in diplomacy.

---

Orm, we have a choice. We can carry on researching maths, saving that 20 gold. When we have finished researching, we will have no one to trade to, as atleast one civ already has maths, and they will trade it around. We will have annoyed Babylon, who are in a nice position to be research partners. We will be behind in tech, and it will be very difficult to get back in the race. I learnt this, because this happeened t mee in a PBEM. I was outclassed. I had the strongest economy, but I was still really far behind in the tech race because all the the other civs were in pairs, and their combined ecnomy was greater than mine.

Or, we could reserch literature. If we go for literature (17-14 turns?), would trade it for a tech from babylon. We lose the gold already invested in math, but we gain all of the research for another tech. We might even get lucky. I would like to offer HBR and IW for math wiith Babylon, on the condition that they trade us whatever tech they are currently researching as soon as they get it.

i.e. we give IW and HBR, they give math.
Then they giive us the tech we are currently researching.
Then we give lit, and any payment of gold to balance the books.

---

I would rather lose 20 gold now and gain about 300 beakers of research in 15 turns, as well as another ally. An ally on our border, who we need to keep happy, at least until we have to invade them.

Last edited by Krill on 05-04-2005 at 18:00

	05-04-2005 21:49									#13
	Put an end to popups!

If we are sure we will have the Math, I see no problem loosing those 15 or 20 gold

	05-04-2005 22:12									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think this will be a good starting point for the border between us

the line is set there because of the city I have planned to build near the horses source. I don't see a problem moving it one tile in our direction as long as we can keep that city.

Attachment: bab border.jpg
This has been downloaded 30 time(s).

	05-04-2005 22:20									#15
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Proposed letter to Babylon:

quote: Beta, and members of mighty Babylon, We are willing to research Literature, on your advice so long as certain precautions are taken. These are: We have a definate tech trade worked out before we start research on Literature, so that requires that you tell us what you are going to trade us for literature (standard 15g per difference in tech points). Ormuzd has one particular problem with this deal. We have already started research on maths. If we start researching lit, we lose the research. Therefore we would like to trade for it . We are willing to offer both IW and HBR for maths (straight deal, no gold from either side). This has been going on since before I go back, soo I don't know the precise amount of gold already invested, but I gather that it is a considerable sum. Basicaly, unless you already have a deal worked out in advance for IW ad HBR, this is a more than acceptable deal. If you already have a deal sorted out, then unfortunatly it looks like the whole deal will fall through

	23-04-2005 02:22									#16
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quote: Greetings Krill. Team Babylon will be completing Polytheism in 3 turns, and we would like to discuss possible trades. Tech and gold (including gpt) combinations work for us. We are also aware that hostilities have broken out bewteen you and the Blood Oath Horde. We wish you well in this matter, and perhaps a deal for a more expensive tech than Polytheism, with us adding cash, may help your situation. Let us know. I will also send this message via pm to ormuzd, as I do not have his e-mail Regards from Babylon to all of Ankh-Morpork. Beta.

	27-06-2005 11:53									#17
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quote: Gentlemen - Greetings and regards to the citizens of Ankh-Morpork from Queen and Goddess Inanna. First let me apologize for the long absence of any correspondence. I have been very busy in RL for a number of weeks now, and although activity has picked up in Babylon, we did not reassign ambassador duties. To start with, congratulations on surviving the BOH onslaught. Deftly done. There was also quite a lot of pressure being applied behind the scenes by us and others for the Hoard to back off. We can discuss this further via chat some some day if you like. We have a couple of things to discuss. To start with - technology. We have completed Monarchy and acquired Literature. Is there some deal we can do? Also - we seem to be in some competition for land - and we are not complaing about it as all is fair in love and war and land settlement . Just thinking that we should stay in touch to avoid any tension which might arise. And finally - we see that you have agreed to a ROP agreement with BOH. Can you advise as to what this about (did you have any choice?) and what your relationship is with BOH now. Again - my apologies for my lack of correspondence, and I look forward to re-connecting with your civilization. Yours truly... Beta of Babylon.

Should we say that we are about to finish research on Monarchy next turn, and that we have a trade lined up for Lit?

Say that the RoP was forced (And that is not a lie, really...)
Again, how many turns until the start of the war? 6?

	27-06-2005 11:59									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

1. Agree for the Monarchy - Paddy promised we will have it next turn

2. the RoP was forced so that BOH troops withdraw from our territories ASAP

3. I think the start of the war will be delayed a little bit more


My initial reaction for the first 2 points was the same. I'm glad we are thinking the same way because this makes things far more simpler.

	27-06-2005 12:29									#19
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my response to this message:

quote: Hello Beta, We are glad to hear your life is getting the right priorities As you have been busy we were too. And this is one of the reasons to not contact you during these past months. Thank you for your support to us during the war with the Horde although we have expected more. But keeping on our side is appreciated. The Horde was driven out and we have succeeded defending our homes. At one point we have agreed noone will gin bnefits from the war and decided to sign a peace treaty. The right of passage was signed just to allow the Horde troops to withdraw ASAP from our territories. As about Monarchy - we should have it very soon. We were researching it from a long time and IMO we should have it next turn. But I don't have the game here, on my work and I can't check this right away. The lack of Literature really surprises me because we had an agreement with one of the other teams. I'll look into this problem and very probably we will have it. But thank you for your proposals. I hope our good relations will continue and we could make some research plans inthe future to avoid research of the same techs. Regards, Ormuzd, representative of the Patriarch of Ankh-Morpork

	27-06-2005 12:41									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

have you sent the message yet?

quote: Hello Beta, We are glad to hear your life is getting the right priorities As you have been busy we were too. And this is one of the reasons to not contact you during these past months. Thank you for your support to us during the war with the Horde, although we have expected more of a fight from them. And staying with us as allies is greatly appreciated The Horde was driven out and we have succeeded defending our homes. At one point we agreed that neither The Hoarde or AM would gain any benefit from the war and decided to sign a peace treaty. The right of passage was signed just to allow the Horde troops to withdraw ASAP from our territories. It seems that the Horde might have less troops than anticipated, if they required the western troops to fight against DR... As about Monarchy - we should have it very soon. We were researching it from a long time and IMO we should have it next turn. But I don't have the game here, on my work PC and I can't check this right away. The lack of Literature really surprises me because we had an agreement with one of the other teams. I'll look into this problem and very probably we will have it. But thank you for your proposals. I hope our good relations will continue and we could make some research plans in the future to avoid research of the same techs,. Regards, Ormuzd, representative of the Patriarch of Ankh-Morpork

I altered it slightly, just check the bolded bits.

	27-06-2005 12:46									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

Oh, I do find it quite wierd that we think alike to the extent that we do. I suppose that is why it is so much easier for one person to play the turns if the other is not around

	27-06-2005 17:37									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

10x for the edition but I have already sent it just as I have posted it

	27-06-2005 17:41									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

no problem for me

	30-06-2005 22:57									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Hail Ormuzd - Representative of the Patriarch of Ankh-Morpork, I am the Vox Inannum, Babylonian Minister of Morporkian Affairs, the ambassador assigned to your glorious nation. I see that you have been in communications with Beta. Beta's tasks in Babylon and RL have necessitated that duties be delegated. Be assured that I have authority to deal with your nation. This is my second attempt to send. The first email was sent this via the link on Apolyton. Not sure if you got that. I know my address there is probably old. I request that you send the addresses of the other Morporkians that should be included in future communications. You can reach me at theidiots@yahoo.com. Babylon proposed making a deal for Monarchy & Literature. I see that Monarchy is nearly yours anyway. Let us be the first to congratulate your new king or his rise to the throne. Do you need Literature? Being from a nation that has literature, let me tell you that there is nothing like curling up on your bed roll with a good scroll. If that does not interest you, keep in mind that we are always open to trades of technologies. You are our neighbors and friends. Our borders are of course in competition. Let us keep the channels of communications open so that any future disputes might be settled peacefully. We seek a long term friendship with the fine people of Ankh-Morpork. You asked in the public forum if Babylon will also attack the Desolators. Our role in this has yet to be played. While we urged Blood Oath Horde to ease off on its attack of your lands, our friends the Blood Oath Horde and Euphorica asked for our assistance in the Land Of Desolation. With that and with your army's valiant fight - you have peace and we are coming to their aide. We hope to play a small role in making this world a better place for all nations. Peace to the Morporkians. Praise to Inanna, -Skrobism Vox Inannum Babylonian Minister of Morporkian Affairs

	16-07-2005 18:54									#25
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quote: Guess that name was somewhat prophetic. If we had doubts in our friends before now - we have no question today. In case you have not heard - BOH, after carefully orchestrating a plan where Euphorica and ourselves committed troops against DR (and Euphorica by far the larger force), have attacked Euphorica with no prior warning, and from what we can see, no cause. World stability - or what there was , continues to crumble. Babylon entered into the alliance with BOH and Euphorica on uneasy terms to begin with. The general principle was not in keeping with our civilization's stated goals, but a strong case had been made regarding the aggression and danger of Desolation row. It is clear to us now that we made a mistake - and that the alliance was ill advised. Ironically, the main benefit of the alliance was that Euphorica and Babylon were able to convince BOH to back off their aggression against you. We would now seriously like to engage in discussions to forming a stronger alliance with Ankh Morpork to our mutual benefit. We are also talking with the Lost Boys and Lord Nosferatu, our neighbour to the east. We could form a strong and stabilizing block in this uncertain world. We also need to discuss the luxuries at the centre of the continent. Your horse is blocking our settler. We can discuss the provision of the second luxury to AM for a very good price. We also have the tech of feudalism - which we can start discussions about. It looks like we should chat as Krill has suggested. Can you please advise if you are available - or should we do this via e-mail. Looking forward to hearing from you. Sincerely - Beta of Babylon

	17-07-2005 15:43									#26
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quote: * Krill has joined #Bab_AM_Emb [Krill> Hi ET [E_T> hey [E_T> I was reading Harry Potter & the Half blood prince.... [E_T> let me pos that your here, but I think that we might not have anyone else show up for a while, forum seems dead at moment [E_T> posted. [E_T> So, how can I be of assistance? * E_T sets mode: +o Krill [E_T> and please be pateint, if I don't respond for a time and then get timed out [E_T> as my house phone wireing is not that good and I sometimes loose connection, when it rains (as it''s doing just now) * Looking up Krill user info... [E_T> hello?? [Krill> Sorry for the delay, I was just a bit busy [E_T> NP [Krill> there are two things [Krill> one is BOH [Krill> and the other is your setler north of Lake Istar [E_T> I have been semi incommunicotto for last day, because of Harry Potter, but I think that you have concerns? [E_T> yeah, 2 things that was not set up before hand [Krill> both of the above are our concerns. [E_T> Lets talk about the settler first [Krill> I take it that you are going to settle the incense? [Krill> Our problem with that is not that you have control of the incense, but rather the game tile to the north [E_T> Wen Ihad joined the team, in 1450BC turnplay, I was under the impression that we had soe form of border agreement (due to the placements of Felinicity and TMR) [E_T> and when you had built Unreal Estate, I found out that that was not true [Krill> we never had any border agreement. Beta chose not to negoiate, IIRC [E_T> I didn't read all of the stuff prior, so I wasn't fully informed or I would have asked for us to get more involved with you all about it [Krill> He said that there was an obvious border. The mountains to the northeast of Felinicity are what we understood to be the border [E_T> actually, being a nussence about it, as Babylon IS a democracy [Krill> I agree, it would have been better if we could have got a border proposal out [Krill> We are democracy as well. But a democracy of two [E_T> but the TNA events overshadowed all of that and it was put onto the back burner, so to say [Krill> yes, they were overshadowing the game. [E_T> Anyways, My Impression, before I was corrected on this, by city placements, was that our furtherest line of settlement, NESW was at Felinicity and yours was TMR [Krill> Well, I can say that that is completely unacceptable. [Krill> You can probably see that the continent is a rough circle [E_T> and there had already been plans in the works, before I had joined, for atleast one more city to the NE of Feli, again feeding my assumption on this [E_T> with each of is getting a 'peice of the pie' so to speek, yeah [Krill> yes, I could not remember if the word was segment or sector, and I know one of those is wrong [Krill> give me a moment to boot up civ [E_T> and again, that also led me to beleave that there had been an agreement, to that effect [E_T> sure [Krill> OK, lets start over, and try to iron out an agreement no. I understand that neither of us can speak for the team, but we can get close to an idea [E_T> sound good to me [Krill> neither of us is going to cede land to the other. [SNIP] Personal Computer things removed [E_T> anyways... [E_T> Northeast of Filicity, we are limited on terrain, for placing cities [Krill> southeast, you have enough space for 5 coastal cities. [Krill> at a push [E_T> yeah, but it's also good te establich your borders, too [Krill> and that means? [Krill> sorry, I meant south west [E_T> as we have a border agrement with LB, and have already set our cities over that way, our team was getting the northern border set before moving west (less travel time, ect) [Krill> 'K [E_T> and frankly, we were worryed about 2 things [E_T> your embassy with us, on 1450BC and your Rop with BoH [E_T> so, it was important to us, to establish that north part before moving west [E_T> and we now see that the RoP has expired [E_T> but had already sent the settler out to that loaction [Krill> well, what are you going to do with the settler? [E_T> but anyways, the terrain was also influincing our city choices [E_T> that is still in debate, partly because of BoH [Krill> well, is it south, or east of Unreal Estate [E_T> and partly because we do want to get a border agreement with you, too [E_T> we had one planned, before UE was built, for 2-2 of where UE is now [E_T> and 2 choices for the Incense site [Krill> 22 is out of the question for econ reasons, so what are the other 2 choices? [E_T> again, when I had looked at and took over planning for them, I was under impression that we had already worked out something [E_T> one was 6-6 of UE, other was 6-6-3 [E_T> for the Incence [Krill> 663 is perfectly fine by us [Krill> 66, no way, unless we got a concession somehere else. [E_T> and of cource, settling at 2-2 of UE would cause a problem, but at time, we didn't know what your relationship to BoH was and really didn't persue it [E_T> well, part of the consessions would be exclusive use of the 2nd Incense [Krill> however, we would like to place a city 22 of UE, but not build culture there, so long as you promised to refuse any culture flips [Krill> problem with 66 is that we want all of the game tiles within reach of UE [E_T> that, I beleave, is also a concern of ours [Krill> well, then, lets haggle [E_T> not the game, although, the site at 6-6 does give us more growth potenial [E_T> First off, before haggleing, WHAT is your stance on BoH? esp in light of recent events? [Krill> they can't really be trusted. [E_T> we agree [Krill> they could sell us techs at reall low prices, gift us there treasury, and still would not trust them [E_T> we also feel that, withi a short time, they will win this game, if something isn't done about it, likely by all of us [E_T> they are now at peace with DR and likely in a tech agreement [E_T> DR has Mono, we have Feud [E_T> BoH was supposed to get Feud from us, but we are awaitig their 'evidence' against Euph before commiting to that [E_T> but with both, they are a short step away from Chiv [E_T> and with DR in GA, they will likely get it quickly [Krill> hence Keshics. [E_T> and all they have to do, is get just 1 upgraded, trigger GA and use the cash from that to upgrade rest [E_T> and end of game [E_T> they have manipulated events, to sow distrust amonst the other nations and all they have to do is pick us off, one at a time [E_T> and the game would be over before 1/3 of MA has even passed [Krill> that would be quite a feat. [E_T> it is within reason [E_T> you DO know, that just their Capitol is capable of producing 2 turn Horsemen, besides the 5 turn AC's [Krill> Yes. [Krill> I have known for quite a while [E_T> and they have a LARGE Horseman Army, along with scattering of others? [Krill> Yes, I know. [E_T> and we just recently learned, that they wanted Feud for the Gov, not specifically for any upgrades [E_T> which, means that they plan of going in a conquoring fest very, very soon [E_T> because of Unit costs in Feud, they will need LOTS of cities to support their huge Army [Krill> wrong assumption [E_T> as for conssecions, how about this, we get you into MA and maybe, get you Feud, too [Krill> In Fued, if you have lots of TOWNs you can support lots of units [E_T> small towns, yes [Krill> We are already in the MA [E_T> but they don't have lots of them [E_T> yet [E_T> Ah, just this last turn, I see [E_T> who did you get the tech from, If I can ask? [Krill> EU [Krill> who did you get construction and currency of? [Krill> off [E_T> BoH, was supposed to send Free tech immediately, which was Feud, but with DR being in MA and having Mono, it was prudent to wait, sent unaccepted [E_T> but then, BoH backstabbed Euph [E_T> and their 'evidence' doesn't hold much water [E_T> as their 'advance' towards DR was delayed, intenionally, by a move that got them 1 turn later than they had "planned" [E_T> also, they got currency, 1 turn later than planned, happened same time * Shogun_Gunner has joined #Bab_AM_Emb [Shogun_Gunner> Greetings. [E_T> so, that also shows that they had no intention, 2 turns ago, of making that attack [E_T> also, allowed us to get into position to enter the war. [E_T> hey [Krill> Hi SG [Shogun_Gunner> Hi E_T [Shogun_Gunner> Hi Krill * E_T sets mode: +o Shogun_Gunner [E_T> discussing Settler & BoH [Shogun_Gunner> good. thanks for posting the notice ET [E_T> hole on, let me catch him up o discussions [E_T> SG, if you don't see it, you have the stuff in a private window [E_T> and while he reads that, I'll go have a potty breakand empty my ashtray, BRB [Shogun_Gunner> thanks...i'm about halfway through reading... [E_T> back [Shogun_Gunner> done reading [Krill> restart [Shogun_Gunner> starting civ, hope i don't blow up Firefox... [E_T> minimize screens first, helps [Shogun_Gunner> because i'm lazy... we are still at 1250, right? [Krill> yep [E_T> 1275, haven't played yet [Shogun_Gunner> ah [Krill> you have held the turn for quite a while [Shogun_Gunner> yes, we received a notice about that... [E_T> Iwas getting soe orders ready when this chat started [Krill> the last save I have is 1275, and as we are last in the play list, you should have 1250 BC [E_T> part of that is because yesterday was Kloreep's B-day [Shogun_Gunner> yes, you are right Krill 1250 [Krill> that is a good reason for a delay [E_T> and he maily plays the turn [E_T> and then, there was the 'evidence' that BoH was supposed to post, publically, still haven;t checked if they did [E_T> and I had RL stuff, including Harry Potter.... hehe [Shogun_Gunner> evidence is stretching the definition of the word [E_T> hence the quotes [Shogun_Gunner> ah [E_T> trumped up work of fiction.... [E_T> te be more accurate [Krill> so far they have not posted anything because you have requested that they don't post it. That cuts both ways. [E_T> bulshit [Shogun_Gunner> i wasn't aware that they haven't posted yet... [E_T> we ASKED for them to post publically [Shogun_Gunner> that is true [E_T> they just recently sent the stuff via e-mail [E_T> if their cause is just, as tey proport, thenshow the world [E_T> but they can't really do that, as it would just show the world how muchtey can't truely be trusted [Krill> OK, I understand what you are saying. Is there anything else that you wish to say? [Shogun_Gunner> yes [E_T> well, lets work on the border again [E_T> first off, we wouldn't like you to have a city at 2-2 of UE [E_T> we feel that would be encrouching too much [E_T> and obviously, we can;t put out city at 2-2 of UE [E_T> so, how about this, we pit out city at 2-3-3 of UE and still keep the Insence site at 6-6, with exclusive right to the second Incense [E_T> AND, if there is any culture flipping issues, we both refuse [Krill> so, you get two cites, and we get none? [Krill> sorry, but no. [E_T> then how about a no mans land, between UE and the lake, you don't put a city there, either and we won't [Krill> what about a city at 21 of UE, and you put your city 66 [E_T> let me look [Shogun_Gunner> interesting... [Krill> and no culture would be built in UE21 [Krill> until LI had built and established it's own culture [E_T> Hmmm, 2-2 would be better, I think [E_T> less cultural confluaces [Shogun_Gunner> our city is at 66 from UE? [E_T> besides, the 2-1 would be on the FP, less food for yuou [Krill> something that we would require is that your city 66 of UE does not build any culture until we had built some culture in UE [Krill> 21 is plains [Krill> just bog standard normal plains [E_T> as you said, we can have part of this, that we refuse any culture flips [Krill> yep, that should feature in any border [E_T> and it's hard to plan for something that we don't know would occure, either [E_T> Oh, sorry, I was thinking 2-3, not 2-1, my bad... [Shogun_Gunner> Seems like there may be agreement between us -- but approvals would be required I would assume [Krill> yes, approvals need to be gained from both sides, and something official written [Krill> and signed. [E_T> So, that is the Northeast part, now, lets talk west of Felinicity [E_T> south and west, that is [Krill> what do you want from that area? [E_T> basically, moving 1-1-1 from Fel, then due west, but that is negotiable [E_T> as you were saying: [Krill> southeast, you have enough space for 5 coastal cities. [E_T> [Krill> at a push [Krill> well, we want a city at Helio 211, with all 21 tiles. [Krill> that fitis in with your border. [Krill> fits [Shogun_Gunner> I'm sorry, where is "Helio 211"? [E_T> Where is Helio at, can't see it [Krill> Heliopolis [E_T> likely 1-1-1 of Home [Krill> and another city at TMR 211 [Krill> Home 221111 [Krill> and Home 22222 [Shogun_Gunner> i think helio is 211 of Home [E_T> sounds ggood [Krill> yeah, Helio is 211 of Home [E_T> In FoW [E_T> 2 tiles of FoW, bt FoW [Shogun_Gunner> right, both sites seem okay [E_T> and you get the fish, because you siad all 21 tiles [E_T> that would be with Culture expansion [Shogun_Gunner> and TMR211 fits with the first border proposal made by E_T [E_T> yep [Krill> yes, need the fish with the desert [Shogun_Gunner> agreed [E_T> Now, that we have that, and I think that our team can deal with all of particulars, stilleed to ask one thing before we move on [E_T> [Krill> something that we would require is that your city 66 of UE does not build any culture until we had built some culture in UE [E_T> when do you estimate that that culture would be finished in it's build? [Krill> not long. [E_T> so that we don't go and do something that speed our own before yours is up and running [Krill> before you could build a temple normally [E_T> so that we don't unitentionally violate the agreement [Krill> so long as you don't rush anything, you should be OK [E_T> We know that your in Anarchy, but when you get out, can you send us more accurate estimates, so that we can plan accordingly? [Krill> yes, we can do that [E_T> good, we will send our proposal to our teams [E_T> now, BoH [E_T> what are your plans towards them? [E_T> I know that, especially after all that has happened, that trust in us has greatly declined [E_T> but we would like to make ammends, esp in light of the hightened treat of BoH [E_T> the fact that they are now at peace with DR, have only attacked 1 EU city and moved their main forces else where, they are either coming for Us, you or LB [E_T> or a combo of those [Krill> Don't piss of BOH. Golden rule of this game [Shogun_Gunner> that's hard to do...breathing could do it [E_T> well, doing that, we very much suspect, will let them win [E_T> truth be told, they need to be taken entirely from the feild of play [Krill> Not pissing them off does not mean letting them walk all over us [E_T> or all is lost, for everyone [E_T> So, in light of that policy, what are you plans? [E_T> for one thing, when we don't send them Feud, they will definately come for us [Shogun_Gunner> we understand you must be very careful of them, considering the shared border, prior war... [E_T> then you'll be surrounded by them and cut off from others [E_T> Or, with your MPP with LB, they might go for you while DR goes for LB [Krill> Build up Empire, getting the barracks down, and start pumping the WC and spear, and cats. [E_T> and we really don't know what they promiced DR for the peace [E_T> bight not have enough time [E_T> and would you be interested in a MPP with us? [Shogun_Gunner> theirs some suspicion that there was not really any war between BoH and DR -- planned events to give appearances [E_T> and forwarding of BoH troop movements? [Krill> Between DR and BOH, I did not see any battles. We have scouts in that area [E_T> that allowed them to draw out and destry the main Euph forces [E_T> and Euph was BoHmain compeditor with UU's,both in Chiv [Shogun_Gunner> Euph is marginalized now [Shogun_Gunner> what will they do with that army now? [E_T> euph is essentially dead [E_T> they havesaid as much themselves [Krill> Euphorica have lost a single town. [E_T> and they really, really trusted BoH [E_T> Euph lost their only Iron [Krill> It was their only iron source, but that means that they are more likely to take sides with who ever offers iron [E_T> and they don't have horses [Krill> they don't have horses connected. [E_T> part of their reason for going after DR, it would seem, that and DR's diplomacy [Krill> horses are at Nirvana 21 [E_T> well, it's not conected [Krill> that is a slight difference to "Don't have" [E_T> they were concentrating on helping BoH with alliance things, it would seem [E_T> still, they don't currently have it, don't have any built and it takes time to build them, once connected [E_T> all things that they admit to being able to do [E_T> they counted on BoH's main leaders PBEM rep to keep them warm and fuzzy at night [Krill> The only reason Euphorica are about to die is that they did not co ordinate their attack with BOH, and that they burnt their brdges with DR [E_T> they didn't suspect that they would be backstabbed like this, with all of their agreements washed away with one surprise attack [E_T> foolish of them, admitingly [E_T> some of our people were doing the same thing [Krill> Paranoia is good [E_T> until I joined and smelled something rotten waifing over from BoH [E_T> that and the occasional Ribbintop style diplomacy from Paddy set off huge warning signs, for me [E_T> I was largely ignored, until recently.... [Krill> well, that happens in demogames with large teams [E_T> and any Intel that you can send us, would also help and we will recipricate [E_T> and we have likely told you alot already, this chat session [E_T> and frankly, for a time, we thought that you had become BoH's vassel, with the RoP and all [Krill> We might be down, but we surely ain't out of it [E_T> good to here that, at least, our efforts on your behalf have been fruitfull [E_T> also, one last thing, technologies [E_T> seeing that your now in MA, what are your plans, along that line? [Krill> pikes are always nice [Krill> and sistines and leos are always thought of [E_T> We do have a strong economy and cheap Libs. But, as we are still building stuff, we are lacking in cashflow [E_T> would you be interested, in possibly funding our research efforts?

	17-07-2005 15:44									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: * Shogun_Gunner has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [Krill> maybe [Krill> right now, though, Anarchy stops us from getting any estimates on what we can send, and what we have to keep [E_T> our current plan, before everything had happened, was to work the bottom tech path, Eng-Inv-Gun, ect [Krill> now you want to go for chiv? [E_T> but with foundig of new cities in question and everything else, we aren't certain [E_T> don't know, we might, if they aren't working with BoH, work out something for them to go for Chiv [E_T> but we are still working on it * Shogun_Gunner has joined #Bab_AM_Emb [E_T> and with the uncertanty of if they are now working with them or now, we don't know [E_T> and IF they ARE working with them, it even is more treatening to the rest of us [Krill> sorry, GF is on the phone. [E_T> hehe, lets take a break and I'll catch SG back up [Krill> OK [E_T> say my name when you get back * Shogun_Gunner has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [Krill> ha [Krill> ET [E_T> sorry, was outside [Krill> no problem [E_T> Oh, I had one question, that I had thought of, while outside, about the border [E_T> your putting the city at EU 2-1 [E_T> and we are putting the city at EU 6-6 [Krill> look at the tiles [Krill> look at what we gave up [Krill> I don't mind putting the south city at UE 21, as we don't lose much [E_T> yah, just wondering about us still havig one at EU 2-2-1, but you said you wanted that one game, NP then [Krill> I personally don't like the city at UE 66. I would rather grant you the city site at TMR 221, and us have the Incense city, giving you the incense for the rest of the game [E_T> just forgot that part, so NM [Krill> UE 221 is a mountain [E_T> yep [E_T> Just didn't want to have a 'little' finger out there, but it will likely be a bit more defenseable,overall [E_T> SG, you still with us? [E_T> Hmm, we lost him again [Krill> piung timeout a while ago [E_T> didn't see, was sending him stuff [E_T> No, outside [E_T> oh well... [E_T> anyways, techs, what plans and deals have you already worked out, so that we can try to work out a concerted plan? [Krill> no idea. [E_T> well, you just went into Anarchy, right? [Krill> yep [E_T> would it be better for you to go into Feud or Monarchy gov? [Krill> Well, let me see [E_T> because, if we work out some form of tech deal, maybe with you suplimenting our research, we could send you feud this turn and you could cange to that the next turn [Krill> Fued would be better from a upkeep perspective, I agree [Krill> What would you require from such a tech partnership [E_T> Yah, and you can cash rush with Monarchy [Krill> you cash as well for that [E_T> We could get Eng in 17 turns, but at -21 GPT [E_T> but then, we also have a fairly high unit cost that will be geting higher as we build Mil Units (in anticipation of BoH war) and workers [E_T> and our city foundings are behid that curve [E_T> so, something like 30 GPT would be a start, I think [E_T> with exclusive rights to the tech, as soon as finished [E_T> I know we have lots of Rivers and you all have somewhat the same [E_T> and it;s a pain moving units while dealing with that [Krill> Don't I know that [E_T> Oh, what do yu know of the Barbs out to our west, we only seen one stack of 8 [Krill> that is all we know of as well [E_T> k, didn't know if you had seen more [E_T> seen 16 over close to DR land [E_T> and BoH was tellig us that they got hit, too [E_T> which in hinesight, is good [Krill> 17 next to BOH [Krill> got a scout up there. [Krill> we got scouts everywhere. [E_T> What are your plans for the extra spices that you have [Krill> whoever offers the best, gets them [Krill> so who ever connects to our roads first wins, really [E_T> well, it would be nice to trade you Silks for them, but will still be a while before we get last of them connected up [E_T> we already have deal with LB for one of our other silks [E_T> and will be sending you the Incense as part of this border deal [Krill> if it gets passed. [E_T> yep, please tell tem, that we still can settle at 6-6-3 from EU, although it really hampers that city and would have to get Culture ASAP to grow [E_T> but would still send the incense, but my team might want somthing else in return for that compramize [Krill> we'll chat about that latter. [Krill> well, it is getting late here, and I still have stuff to do, so I had better be off. [E_T> let me summerize before you go [Krill> Oh, and would you be so kind to send me the log file of the chat? [E_T> -Border agrement, to be ratified by the individual teams, maybe with some tweeking [E_T> yeah, send me your e-mail addy [E_T> -Mutual concerns about BoH, with a possible MPP between us, although you don't want to (currently) "piss them off" [E_T> -Possible trade of Silks for Spices [Krill> chris@jackos.f2s.com [E_T> -Possible tech deal, with us giving you Feud, and you giving us atleast 30 GPT, with you geting excluse first rights to tech (withother details to be worked out) [Krill> When are you going to send the save? [E_T> -Possible Intel & Troop Momentments of both BoH and DR [E_T> soon, I hope [E_T> and that seems to be what was covered, unless you can think of everything else? [E_T> where do you live? [Krill> England [E_T> Ah, Centr Florida, here [Krill> I hope you have a good evening then [E_T> but you don't need Feud for Gov change, so we can wait a turn with sending that, while we get all of this all set up [E_T> later then, I'll send this to you shortly, will be edited for proper posting on poly [Krill> Ok, thank you * Krill has quit IRC (Quit: )

	20-07-2005 22:49									#28
	Got spare money?

quote: Skrobism says: hello Krill says: Hi mate Krill says: \Beta has PMed me already Skrobism says: This is official diplo chat. OK? Krill says: Sure, np Skrobism says: IF you are comfortable with PM that is fine by us. Krill says: I prefer chat... Krill says: if that is OK with you? Skrobism says: Do you have any issues with the plan drawn up by you and E_T? Krill says: Yes, we do Skrobism says: name them. Skrobism says: *I'm at work over lunch, might have to go. Krill says: Basically, it come down to this: Either you move your town to 663 of UE, and we keep ours at 21 of UE Krill says: oryou keep yours at 66 and move ours to 22 Krill says: you might need a map... Skrobism says: Can't open Civ here. Skrobism says: Is that the only issue? Krill says: don't you have screenshots? Krill says: yeah, that is our only issue with the border treaty Skrobism says: Might be able to find a screenie. Hard to do at work. Krill says: I'd take one and post it, butthis computer does not have C3C installed either. Skrobism says: I can take that issue back to Babylon, get agreement and write up a treaty. Skrobism says: or you can write up the treaty with your proposed change, send it, and we can mark it up or agree to it tonight. Krill says: Well, I can right it up later if you need me two, but aswe are pressed for time it would be best if we went onto other topics. Krill says: For example, Fued and the MPP Skrobism says: yes? Krill says: What was the deal for fued again? Skrobism says: looking it up - hold on... Krill says: something like we fund your research, can't recall... Skrobism says: IIRC - yes. trying to read E_T's post. Krill says: trying? Skrobism says: I am Skrobism says: I am close - hold on. Skrobism says: yes. something about funding chiv. Skrobism says: 30 GPT? Krill says: 30 gold sent each turn manually Krill says: sent to babylon in exchange for fued. Skrobism says: I'm still reading. was that the deal? Skrobism says: how many turns? Krill says: That was not discussed, it seems. Skrobism says: no it wasn't - darn details. Krill says: Well, 30 gold per turn for 20 turns = 600 gold. Engineering (you can't reseach chiv yet, unless you get monotheism) costs 900 beakers Skrobism says: true. I wish I knew what E_T was getting at specifically. Krill says: However, we would be getting two techs, one of them in advance, so that is perfectly acceptable by us. Skrobism says: and you'd have exclusive first rights to it. Krill says: So, Krill says: We send 30 gold each and every turn for the next 20 turns Krill says: This turn you send Fued accepted Krill says: When you research Engineering (or whatever tech you research, but as Monotheism is already known, there is little point to research it) The following message could not be delivered to all recipients: When you research Engineering (or whatever tech you research, b... Krill says: When you research Engineering (or whatever tech you research, but as Monotheism is already known, there is little point to research it) Skrobism says: hello I'm back - sysytem locked up had to restart - not like my machine at all. Krill says: np Skrobism says: damn it's still running hard. Krill says: school machine? Skrobism says: work. Krill says: ah. Skrobism says: ok. if that happens again. just write up what you think the treaty is, and we can look at it and modify tonight. babylon was very enthusiastic about working with you. We were very happy thatthere were no border disputes that could not be worked out. Krill says: ok Krill says: eating tea atm Krill says: so i'm typing with one hand... Skrobism says: re: techs. I think the trick is to get monotheism. Krill says: yeah, we need mono. Skrobism says: I'm sorry I need the save to figure out who to getthat from. Krill says: dr have it Krill says: other than that I have no idea, and no way of being certain Skrobism says: and we have yet to hear from them. Skrobism says: ok so far - Skrobism says: you have a suggestion for the border. Skrobism says: we have some more details on the tech trades, but need more. Skrobism says: anything else? Krill says: MPP? Skrobism says: We would love to be mutually protected. Esp. since BOH claims that babylons is plotting against them. Poor guys. Krill says: They have pissed off so many teams... Krill says: idiots... Skrobism says: I told Paddy as much. Skrobism says: they make no sense. Skrobism says: They publically declared war after giving us time to think. Skrobism says: at the same time they declared war they came to us for peace. ????? Skrobism says: ranted and then blamed us again. oh well. it's a game. Skrobism says: hello? Krill says: sorry, tidying up my plate Skrobism says: ok Krill says: I always thought that they were the most unstable team in the game. Krill says: This just proves it, really. Skrobism says: true. Like I said in the forum. The world can do with us as they see fit, but BOH has no friends. Skrobism says: MPP? Skrobism says: I think you can count on it. Krill says: Well, this We are restationing our armed forces so that If BOH come knocking they are going to have to go through walls, alot of spears (Pikes if you send us Fued), and counterattacking Horses/WC Krill says: With enough units to hold down any barbs that coe our way. Skrobism says: I'm sure you will have Feud soon. Skrobism says: Have you been in talks with Lost Boys/1889? Krill says: No, we have not... Krill says: he is raely around to chat, because of the time difference Skrobism says: email? Krill says: We've done it a bit, but it takes too long, as this game moves to fast, and the circumstances change so frequently. Skrobism says: true. Skrobism says: are you looking at an MPP with them as well? Krill says: Well, 1889 has no reason to want an MPP against any civ but DR, if he has one with you. Skrobism says: I think he, like all others fears BOH. Skrobism says: you ARE friendly with LB/1889 correct? Skrobism says: in game. Krill says: yes, we are. Skrobism says: good. we are too. Skrobism says: DR? Like I said we have recieved nothing official back from them. Krill says: we've chatte, but nothing has really happened. Skrobism says: OK. my lunch is ending soon. what time is it there? 6:40? Krill says: yes Krill says: Have a good after noon then, I'll right up the proposals. Skrobism says: can you write up the AM/Bab treaty? Skrobism says: oh good. Skrobism says: we can look at it and get it marked up or sign off on and get that back to you today. Krill says: Yes, I'll probably send it within the next two hours Skrobism says: I think we are real close. no deal breakers here. Skrobism says: I'll watch my email skrobism@yahoo.com and post it then. Krill says: duly noted Skrobism says: no send it to theidiots@yahoo.com Krill says: OK, altered then Skrobism says: good. I'll watch both. Skrobism says: thank you this has been a good talk. have a great night. Krill says: Thanks. Krill says: It has been a good chat.

	21-07-2005 00:04									#29
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Treaty Section One: Technology Exchange Team AM sends 30 gold per turn until 600 gold has been received by Team Babylon, manually. Babylon sends Fuedalism to Team AM as soon as this treaty is agreed. Whatever technology that Team Babylon decides to research shall be sent, accepted, to Team AM as soon as it is researched. Neither the researched technology, nor Fuedalism, shall not be traded by Team AM to another Team, and Team babylon shall have sole resale rights to these two technology. This Treaty Section is signed by Team Ankh-Morpork --- Treaty Section Two: Ankh-Morpork/Babylon Border Either: Team AM builds one city on the tile 21 of the Town of Unreal Estate, and Team Babylon builds a town on the tile 663 of Unreal Estate. Team AM will not build any cultural improvements in the town 21 of Unreal Estate until the cultural borders of Lake Ishtar have expanded Team Babylon will not build any cultural improvement in the town 663 of Unreal estate until the cultural borders of Unreal Estate have expanded. A cultural improvement is any improvement that generates culture, for example a temple, library or Forbidden palace. - Or: Team AM builds one city on the tile 22 of the Town of Unreal Estate, and Team Babylon builds a town on the tile 66 of Unreal Estate. Team AM will not build any cultural improvements in the town 22 of Unreal Estate until the cultural borders of Lake Ishtar have expanded Team Babylon will not build any cultural improvement in the town 66 of Unreal estate until the cultural borders of Unreal Estate have expanded. A cultural improvement is any improvement that generates culture, for example a temple, library or Forbidden palace. This Treaty Section IS NOT signed by Team Ankh-Morpork ---

Hopefully we can complete this treaty before the end of the day. I'll be in MSN for the next 3 hours, give or take half an hour.

quote: The MPP between Team AM and Team babylon shall be treated as a separate treaty,. Mutual Protection Package In the event that ither Team Babylon or team Ankh-Morpork are attacked by any team, the unattacked team shall use all viable means to defend the attacked party. (This part could do with some work, so I would be thankful if you could complete this part of the treaty) This Treaty IS NOT signed by Team Ankh-Morpork

	21-07-2005 23:11									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Morporkean-Babylonian Technology and Border Treaty Treaty Section One: Technology Exchange Team AM sends 30 gold per turn until 600 gold has been received by Team Babylon, manually. Babylon sends Feudalism to Team AM as soon as this treaty is agreed. Whatever technology that Team Babylon decides to research shall be sent, accepted, to Team AM as soon as it is researched. Neither the researched technology, nor Feudalism, shall be traded by Team AM to another Team, and Team Babylon shall have sole resale rights to these two technology. This Treaty Section is signed by Team Ankh-Morpork This Treaty Section is Signed by Team Babylon Actions on Section 1 by Babylon 1225 BC: Ankh-Morpork gold accepted. Feudalism sent accepted to Ankh-Morpork Treaty signed as is. Treaty Section Two: Ankh-Morpork/Babylon Border Either: Team AM builds one city on the tile 21 of the Town of Unreal Estate, and Team Babylon builds a town on the tile 663 of Unreal Estate. Team AM will not build any cultural improvements in the town 21 of Unreal Estate until the cultural borders of Lake Ishtar have expanded Team Babylon will not build any cultural improvement in the town 663 of Unreal estate until the cultural borders of Unreal Estate have expanded. A cultural improvement is any improvement that generates culture, for example a temple, library or Forbidden palace. This Treaty Section IS NOT signed by Team Ankh-Morpork This Treaty Section 2 is signed by Team Babylon Actions on Sections 2 by Babylon 1225 BC: Option 2 of Section 2 chosen. No edits made to second option of Section 2. Treaty signed as is. ------------------------ /end treaty Please returned signed by AM. I believe we have other unofficial agreements concerning the Western Lands to the sea. Maybe we should firm those up and add them to this treaty, or that can be another treaty. The drafted MPP is to follow soon. I am a work so no promises there. Even if it is not signed know that you have a friend in Babylon who is committed to the integrity of your borders. Do you have any word on BOH/DR movements? Do you have a way to get Monotheism? Long may we live together in peace and friendship, Skrobism Vox Inannum

Thanks for Fued, but I think we won't be bothering with the rest of the treaty.