08-03-2005 20:29									#1
	Government: Democratic Socialism Suffering from ads?

NOTE: I posted this on the Creation page as well, however I didnt get very many hits for it and figured it was just smarter to bring it into the General folder to get some feedback. THANKS!

Hey I was wondering what everyone thought of the best Mod-Made Governments. I have always thought there should be some more depths to the political systems. I was thinking of making a government that works as a bridge to Communism like Republic is a bridge to Democracy. The way I see it is this:

(+) Economy ----------------- (-) Economy
DEMOCRACY---REPUBLIC---COMMUNISM
(-) Unit Support ------------- (+) Unit Support

There is nothing nothing that is a bridge between Republic and Communism where I feel there should be. So I was thinking about making a government called Democratic Socialism where the economy is not as bad as Communism but worse than Republic and the Unit Support and WW is better than Republic but worse than Communism.

(+) Economy -------------------------------------- (-) Economy
DEMOCRACY---REPUBLIC---DEMO SOCIALISM---COMMUNISM
(-) Unit Support ---------------------------------- (+) Unit Support

I dont know, I would be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on Democratic Socialism, as well as hear about any Mod-Made governments from anyone else.

Thanks!

	08-03-2005 21:27									#2
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Similar to Social Democracy?

	09-03-2005 20:50									#3
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I am glad someone else would have even heard of it, however no. For a long time Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism has been used interchangibly, however now they are very different ideas:

(TAKEN FROM {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia} Free Encyclopedia)

"Social Democracy is more centrist and supports a broadly capitalist system, with just a few socialist elements to make it more equitable and humane. Meanwhile, Democratic Socialism is more left-wing and it supports a fully socialist system, seeking to establish that socialist system by gradually reforming capitalism from within."


Theres the REALWORLD defination of it.
Thanks ya'll for any feedback in advance! (on the in game government mind you )

	14-03-2005 02:37									#4
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In my opinion, there shouldn't be any form of govt to presage Communism. In history there wasn't. Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism developed concurrently with Communism.

Of course, stock Civ3 rules aren't exactly historically accurate--generalizations were made, compromises taken.

In some of the big mods like RAR there is a Social Democracy form of govt (you are probably already aware of this) and it has communal corruption, high WW, no unit support. I think it's benefit is that Social D allows for the building of wonders and improvements that other govt's don't have.

	14-03-2005 02:58									#5
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I have made a Federal Republic government in the scenario editor. Basically, it is the same as a Republic except that corruption is communal (resulting from the decentralized nature of federalism). Would this be balanced? If not what is a way I can balance it WITHOUT raisng war weariness to "high" like in Democracy?

	14-03-2005 03:05									#6
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This Federal Republic you speak of, what are its full set of stats? If you would be so kind?

	15-03-2005 11:52									#7
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quote: Originally posted by theDragon This Federal Republic you speak of, what are its full set of stats? If you would be so kind?

It is identical to Republic on everything execpt corruption, which is communal; and the resistance and propaganda modifiers, which are the same as democracy. Same war weariness as Republic, same assimilation rate, same draft and millitary police settings, etc.

	15-03-2005 20:05									#8
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Wait.. ok if everything is the same as Republic except the corruption is a bit worse... where is the plus side? What did you do to make it equal?

	15-03-2005 22:51									#9
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FYI, the RAR mod has a "Theocracy" and "Fundamentalism" govts that are communal corruption. They are not really precursors to Communism though...being religious govts and all...

	16-03-2005 20:32									#10
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I have read with great interest the AU Mod Thread titled Balancing the Governments and have come to the same conclusion as they have: Ancient governments must at some point become obsolete and modern governments must become equalized. I whole heartedly agree, although it is nice, I believe it is not any fun getting into a Republic so early and staying in it for the remainder of the game.

I have a much better thread running in the Civ3-Creation forum simply called Governments which has a better grip on equalizing the governments.

I would like to hear from you all how you think about any new governments you may have in mind. I got an idea from one of the posters on the other thread to split Democracy into two distinct governments which I believe I will be doing: Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism. The stats are available for all my Governmental changes on the other thread.

Governments

	17-03-2005 02:35									#11
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quote: Originally posted by theDragon I have read with great interest the AU Mod Thread titled Balancing the Governments and have come to the same conclusion as they have: Ancient governments must at some point become obsolete and modern governments must become equalized.

I came to this conclusion also. Or at least I think it is a good idea...

I'll have to chk out the "Governments" thead...

	18-03-2005 01:55									#12
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quote: Originally posted by theDragon Wait.. ok if everything is the same as Republic except the corruption is a bit worse... where is the plus side? What did you do to make it equal?

Communal is worse than Nuisance? Back to the drawing board...

	20-03-2005 04:27									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Communal is worse than Nuisance? Back to the drawing board...

I don't think it is... unless you have a small and compact (= probably a losing) civ.

	20-03-2005 07:25									#14
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Corruption:

(BEST)
Minimal
Nuisance
Problematic
Rampant
Catastrophic
Communal
(WORST)

Thats straight off the Civ3Edit.

	20-03-2005 14:52									#15
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Even with a huge empire? Makes no sense to me. I must confess that I never pick communism myself, though.

	20-03-2005 15:19									#16
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The Communal is a different Corruption model than any other - that is why it sits at the end of the list. It applies the same Corruption to each city (only changed by Palace, Forbidden Palace and SPHQ). Each anti-Corruption building helps (including those in your capital). It is usually by far the most efficient choice for large empires. For the normal model, Minimal has the lowest Corruption, while Catastrophic means maximal Corruption everywhere (like in Anarchy).

Last edited by Modo44 on 20-03-2005 at 15:52

	20-03-2005 15:42									#17
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OH! THAT MAKES SENSE!



Thanks the entire corruption this makes more sense to me now. Sweet. Ok. Now I understand.