14-03-2005 01:40									#61
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Azazel and why are these deals poorly negotiated?

Reagan's model of forcing open foreign markets in return for opening ours is clearly superior to the current opening our market and letting them keep theirs closed.

	14-03-2005 01:40									#62
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quote: picking them by hand vs driving a machine.

There is a produce-picking machine? That's news to me!

	14-03-2005 01:43									#63
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Yes, but the tomatoes have to picked when they are still green.

	14-03-2005 01:45									#64
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capital improvements,driving a machine,meh, the fact of the matter is that mechanizing agriculture has allowed for a lot fewer people to do a lot more(agricultural products have inelastic demand vs manufacturing goods which have elastic demand), and learn skill sets other then picking produce.

	14-03-2005 01:46									#65
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quote: Reagan's model of forcing open foreign markets in return for opening ours is clearly superior to the current opening our market and letting them keep theirs closed.

Who's market is closed, exactly?

	14-03-2005 01:47									#66
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On second thought, check this bastard out:http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000097022335/

	14-03-2005 01:49									#67
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Kick ass.

Machined produce picking is the last agricultural frontier.

THIS RULES.

Hopefully, we'll see machine pickers of all fruit and veggies.

	14-03-2005 01:52									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Kick ass. Machined produce picking is the last agricultural frontier. THIS RULES. Hopefully, we'll see machine pickers of all fruit and veggies.

I'd like to see one for grapes. So grape juice isn't so damned expensive. (I like grape juice)

	14-03-2005 01:55									#69
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: Reagan's model of forcing open foreign markets in return for opening ours is clearly superior to the current opening our market and letting them keep theirs closed. Who's market is closed, exactly?

What do you want an example of? A subsidy protecting a business like airbus? A non-tariff-barrier preventing a product from entering a market like the requirement Japan had that if someone wanted to buy a "heavy-engine" motorcycle, he had to be able to ride it across a tight beam(they dropped this one once their producers caught up in the technology, same exact thing I predict will happen with GM crops)? an outright poorly negotiated trade deal where we agree to only tariff Chinese cars at 2.5%, but they can tariff ours at 25%?

	14-03-2005 02:01									#70
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Is it ethical to take jobs from the working class people of one nation and give them to the working class people of another? If you say yes I'm sure I can find some places where you can defend your belief in spirited debate, but before you go I'd advise you to don some Kevlar underwear first.

The tomato picker was designed as our way of telling Cesar Chavez and his unionized farm workers how much we love them.

	14-03-2005 02:05									#71
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quote: What do you want an example of? A subsidy protecting a business like airbus? A non-tariff-barrier preventing a product from entering a market like the requirement Japan had that if someone wanted to buy a "heavy-engine" motorcycle, he had to be able to ride it across a tight beam(they dropped this one once their producers caught up in the technology, same exact thing I predict will happen with GM crops)? an outright poorly negotiated trade deal where we agree to only tariff Chinese cars at 2.5%, but they can tariff ours at 25%?

You're being way too america-specific here. We're talking about general issues for 1st world countries.

	14-03-2005 02:10									#72
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hmm, well Europe runs a net trade surplus so they aren't losing out on that end, they are deciding to work less 35 hour work weeks,etc which is their call. They are trying to back out of that, but we'll see how well that goes.

China and Russia had a bunch of state supported stuff that the market just would not support, nothing you can do there.

	14-03-2005 02:11									#73
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That's threadjacking, me thinks.

	14-03-2005 02:16									#74
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I'll concede that their problems are not trade related, but neither are they having problems with runaway technology.

	14-03-2005 02:30									#75
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Humanoid robots are not high on my practical technology list. My feeling is that they'll never become a serious link in the economic chain.

	14-03-2005 02:36									#76
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My feeling is that when we will known how to build AI sufficiently "human", and build humanoid , we'll also know how transfer our entity from our brain. Both are sufficiently far in the future, as not to be relevant to our discussion.

However, non-humoid robots that excel at tasks like farming manufacturing, and more computerized offices can render many human jobs obsolete.

	14-03-2005 03:17									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha Reagan's model of forcing open foreign markets in return for opening ours is clearly superior to the current opening our market and letting them keep theirs closed.

???

From the Canadian perspective, your model is to force open our market while keeping yours closed.

	14-03-2005 03:22									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Humanoid robots are not high on my practical technology list. My feeling is that they'll never become a serious link in the economic chain.

True, but even in the drive-thru industry we do not require humanoid robots. Other body plans are superior for menial labour.

Humans are generalists. Industrial robots are specialists.

	14-03-2005 03:45									#79
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I'd like to think that someday robots will do the things that people won't do, like sorting out recycleable trash or taking decent care of eldely people.

	14-03-2005 03:46									#80
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Poor lonely elderly people. Only Robots for friends.

	14-03-2005 03:50									#81
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We must do the humane thing. We must eat the elderly.

	14-03-2005 04:12									#82
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo ??? From the Canadian perspective, your model is to force open our market while keeping yours closed.

if only that were the truth we could have kept all of your cattle out of our market(thus preventing the sneak attack mad cow), instead of merely banning the brain eating ones.

	14-03-2005 04:22									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker The problem with automation is that you must inevitably increase welfare spending as time goes on.

No.

	14-03-2005 04:22									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Libertarians are idiots who don't know human nature.

Please tell me you didn't actually fall for that. My faith in the basic intelligence of humanity would be destroyed... oh wait...

	14-03-2005 07:58									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Like I said, here in the US, CEOs make 300 times more than their average line worker.

You sure it's 300? Last I read it's 1000, up from something like 30 a couple of decades back.

	14-03-2005 08:07									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha What do you want an example of? A subsidy protecting a business like airbus? A non-tariff-barrier preventing a product from entering a market like the requirement Japan had that if someone wanted to buy a "heavy-engine" motorcycle, he had to be able to ride it across a tight beam(they dropped this one once their producers caught up in the technology, same exact thing I predict will happen with GM crops)? an outright poorly negotiated trade deal where we agree to only tariff Chinese cars at 2.5%, but they can tariff ours at 25%?

What are you talking about? The US has been trying very hard to keep its markets closed. Previous efforts include stiff tariff on steel, furniture, even stockings.

	14-03-2005 08:16									#87
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US steel imports actually went up during the steel tariffs. do you want to know why? because they were designed to combat dumping, and countries we already had agreements with such as "Canada, Israel, Jordan and Mexico - and developing countries which export only limited amounts of steel to the United States" were exempted from the tariff.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/MATERIAL/31888.htm

And if you are talking about the multi-fiber agreement, that was so that Bush and Co. could continue to parrot the line that free trade was to aide poor developing countries instead of giving a singular producer the entire market.

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusi...e_1000793.shtml

and to try and tie this to the thread at hand, robots should be designed that will negotiate our trade policy.

Last edited by Whoha on 14-03-2005 at 08:22

	14-03-2005 08:19									#88
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stockings

	14-03-2005 08:23									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha US steel imports actually went up during the steel tariffs. do you want to know why? because they were designed to combat dumping

It's quite a convenient excuse, don't you think? Somehow foreign imports are found to be guilty of dumping in areas where US companies fail to compete. Or rather, in areas where US companies and/or big unions have political clout.

	14-03-2005 08:24									#90
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US imports went up during the period, it didn't help them.