19-03-2005 05:03									#31
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Che, that's a shallow argument that I'd say was normally beneath you. This is a sad case all around. Nobody wins from this suffering.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. All of the "leaders" who are sticking their noses in the Schivo's business are Republicans. Here in Florida, the GOP government deliberately passed a law ("Terry's Law") that they knew was unconstitutional and would be overturned. In many ways, I give Jeb Bush a lot of credit for being a good governor, but this is one of his shameful performances. This is a cynical move to whip up the partisan base, just like *****ing about abortion (and never doing anything about it).

quote: Let me ask this, if it was an injured dog or cat that was going to be starved to death would some of the answers here be different?

If she wasn't human, she could be euthanized. Unfortunately, that's illegal in all fifty states (IIRC, Oregon's law was just overturned, I could be wrong).

	19-03-2005 05:03									#32
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Let me ask this, if it was an injured dog or cat that was going to be starved to death would some of the answers here be different?

She is a vegetable, she won't suffer.

	19-03-2005 05:03									#33
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Damn right-wing zealots. Yeah, they care about life — until it's born! At which point all bets are off. Just like some of the left-wing zealots — they care about life *after* it's born, but if you're not to term yet, all bets are off.

The lessons I've learned from Terri Schiavo's plight? One, put into writing how you wish to be treated, should you ever become physically and mentally incapable of controlling your fate. And, two, if you're going to let Schiavo die, do so quickly, via injection of some sort, rather than letting her *starve* to death over a two-week period. That part is cruelty, IMO.

Gatekeeper

	19-03-2005 05:04									#34
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quote: I wouldn't want an animal to suffer any more than I would want a human to suffer. I don't see how this is relevant. Plus, we euthenize animals. We should offer the same choice for humans.

I wil go you one further, if someone would keep a pet alive in the same ccondition she is in, we would call that person inhumane.

EDIT: quote added

	19-03-2005 05:04									#35
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gatekeeper

re: an injection... unfortunately, we don't have a "right to die"...

	19-03-2005 05:15									#36
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He waited 15years before fighting for his wife's wishes?

	19-03-2005 05:15									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Unfortunately, you are wrong. All of the "leaders" who are sticking their noses in the Schivo's business are Republicans. Here in Florida, the GOP government deliberately passed a law ("Terry's Law") that they knew was unconstitutional and would be overturned. In many ways, I give Jeb Bush a lot of credit for being a good governor, but this is one of his shameful performances. This is a cynical move to whip up the partisan base, just like *****ing about abortion (and never doing anything about it).

The fact that GOP members are fighting against starving her to death does not mean that this is about "whipping up the partisan base".

quote: If she wasn't human, she could be euthanized. Unfortunately, that's illegal in all fifty states (IIRC, Oregon's law was just overturned, I could be wrong).

Euthanasia would be a reasonable solution if it existed here. My question though is whether you really want to travel down that road? Once you allow it, you incur govt regulation. Personally, I dont trust any govt to decide who has a right to die and who doesnt.

	19-03-2005 05:16									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew He waited 15years before fighting for his wife's wishes?

no, she stopped being responsive in 2001... that's when he first tried to have the feeding tube removed.

	19-03-2005 05:17									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Sava no, she stopped being responsive in 2001... that's when he first tried to have the feeding tube removed.

Ok. Thanks.

	19-03-2005 05:29									#41
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Can't we compromise and administer cyanide instead of starving?

	19-03-2005 05:33									#42
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You know the tapes I saw were as recent as 2003 were she started making nosies. If in fact you want to say let her just die dont starve the woman to death. Kill her suddenly.

	19-03-2005 05:40									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski You know the tapes I saw were as recent as 2003 were she started making nosies. If in fact you want to say let her just die dont starve the woman to death. Kill her suddenly.

About those tapes:

quote: Hours of video tape was taken (illegally mind you..the judge ordered the Schindler to stop taking video/pictures of Terri and distributing them to protect Terri's privacy) and of the hours of tape, selective clips were edited to "prove" Terri reacting. In actuality, they took the random and reflexive movements & sounds she makes, and used those selective scenes to show how alert and responsive Terri is. The fact that they refuse to release the entire tape shows that they don't want people to see what the courts have seen. The 4 hours worth of tape taken during the trial to determine Terri's condition showed that she didn't respond as the Schindlers have claimed, rather they cherry picked the movements & sounds that corresponded with their requests to show she was not PVS, when in fact the trial court and the 2nd DCA viewed the entire tape and stated on the record that those "movements and sounds" were nothing more than reflexive actions.

From another forum.

	19-03-2005 05:45									#44
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the woman is still alive if you take her feeding tube inject her with something to just end the suffering. YOu want to know why you cant its called murder.

	19-03-2005 07:22									#45
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quote: its called murder.

from Merriam Webster: 1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

letting someone die instead of keeping them hooked up to machines is not murder... and you seriously misunderstand the meaning of the word if you cannot understand that.

also from Merriam Webster:

quote: : the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy

euthanasia...

	19-03-2005 07:34									#46
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara (IIRC, Oregon's law was just overturned, I could be wrong).

No, it was just announced recently that SCOTUS will review the law. It's still on the books for now.

Hopefully we will soon see mercy for Terry Schiavo and she can be laid to rest. If anyone who claims to love me tried to keep me in such a state, I'd be pissed...erm, except, of course, I'd not be cognizant of anything.

If the Schindlers are sincere Christians, they should let their daughter die so they can believe she's gone to heaven. Don't they want her to go to heaven?

	19-03-2005 07:40									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Sava from Merriam Webster: 1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought letting someone die instead of keeping them hooked up to machines is not murder... and you seriously misunderstand the meaning of the word if you cannot understand that. also from Merriam Webster: euthanasia...

I dont misunderstand to meaning of that word. Last time i checked this woman was not hooked up to a vent

	19-03-2005 07:50									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Don't they want her to go to heaven?

no they want her to suffer because they are dillusional

	19-03-2005 07:51									#49
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quote: If the Schindlers are sincere Christians, they should let their daughter die so they can believe she's gone to heaven. Don't they want her to go to heaven?

This is one of the most patronizing and offensive things I've read in a long time...

	19-03-2005 07:52									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: If the Schindlers are sincere Christians, they should let their daughter die so they can believe she's gone to heaven. Don't they want her to go to heaven? This is one of the most patronizing and offensive things I've read in a long time...

if what boris said is offensive to you instead of the suffering of Shiavo in the name of "pro-life", your morals are seriously ****ed up

	19-03-2005 07:55									#51
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You find it alright to use someone's religous beliefs against them in order to sneer at them for not wanting their daughter to be killed? Yeah, I'm the one with the ****ed up morals...

	19-03-2005 07:56									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You find it alright to use someone's religous beliefs against them in order to sneer at them for not wanting their daughter to be killed? Yeah, I'm the one with the ****ed up morals...

if someone's dillusions are the reason a woman is suffering, then yes

	19-03-2005 07:57									#53
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She's not a vegetable, and has shown ability to react to external stimuli. Moreover, in people with similar situations as her, brain scans indicate that they can emotionally react to the presence of other family members. Physicians have also testified that with physical therapy, she could learn to feed herself.

Moreover, if the feeding tube is removed, she would experience the slow painful death of starvation.

Now, were he to divorce her, a family court may sieze the lion share of his wealth and garnish his wages for the care of Mrs. Schiavo. Much more convenient for him if his wife simply dies.

	19-03-2005 07:58									#54
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But it is true, if you had a choice of your daughter being a vegetable and going to heaven, which would you choose? Heaven sounds to be a mighty nice place.

	19-03-2005 07:59									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi She's not a vegetable,

wrong

do you not understand what "PERSISTENT VEGETATIVE STATE" means? or are you also blinded by your dillusional ideology?

	19-03-2005 08:00									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten This is one of the most patronizing and offensive things I've read in a long time...

How so? Christians believe their souls will go to heaven and experience eternal joy. Why would they protest the passing of one who is obviously not in such a state into that existence? It doesn't make sense to me.

I'm offended by the patronizing moralizing of people sticking their noses into this for political purposes. It's also quite offensive that the Schindlers are trying to manipulate people with such things as their edited video tapes.

	19-03-2005 08:02									#57
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quote: Clearwater, FL (LifeNews.com) -- Terri Schiavo forgot her father's birthday this year. But, knowing her Dad, I'm sure he doesn't mind. The disabled woman has been the subject of intense national debate and many who have argued about or decided her fate have forgotten she is a human being capable of showing emotion and interacting with her family. And interact she did when her parents visited her on Saturday. Although she was still in bed, Terri was in good spirits, Cheryl Ford, a nurse and friend of her parents Bob and Mary Schindler, wrote in a note to LifeNews.com. Bob Schindler said he told Terri yesterday's date, October 23, and asked her if she remembered the significance of it. Bob said Terri laughed and began to roll her eyes, indicating by her laughter that she remembered Saturday was her father's birthday.

Clearly a vegetable, huh?

	19-03-2005 08:04									#58
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Also:

quote: Despite the contention of Terri Schiavo's estranged husband Michael and courts that have allowed him to starve her to death, a doctor nominated for the Nobel Prize says he believes medical therapies are still available that could help Terri party recover from her disabled state. Dr. William Hammesfahr is an internationally recognized expert on cases of brain-injured patients. He has been identified in helping patients with chronic brain injuries from many causes actually leave long term disability, and return to work. Terri Schiavo's injury, hypoxic encephalopathy, is a type of stroke that he treats every day with success. "We, and others I know, have treated many patients worse than Terri and have seen them regain independence and dignity," Hammesfahr said. "There are many approaches that would help Terri Schiavo," Dr. Hammesfahr explained. "I know, because I had the opportunity to personally examine her, her medical records, and her X-rays." "It is time to help Terri, instead of just warehousing her," he added. "She would have benefited from treatment years ago, but it is not too late to start now." This isn't the first time Hammesfahr has discussed Terri's plight. Last year, he explained that, after examining Terri, he believed that she could eventually eat and drink on her own. He also said he believes Terri would be able to talk and have good use of one arm and one hand should be given proper rehabilitative treatment. Hammesfahr also said he thought Terri would eventually be able to transfer herself from a wheelchair to a bed. "The patient is not in a coma," concluded Hammesfahr said after observing Terri. "She responds to specific people best. She tries to please others by doing activities for which she gets verbal praise." He says Terri's eyes clearly fixate on her family and she tries to follow the simple commands her parents give her. "She looks at you, she can follow commands," Hammesfahr said. Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999.

	19-03-2005 08:05									#59
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quote: How so? Christians believe their souls will go to heaven and experience eternal joy. Why would they protest the passing of one who is obviously not in such a state into that existence? It doesn't make sense to me.

Jesus, this is low, Boris. You know damn well that the vast majority of people, Christians or otherwise, don't welcome the death of loved ones. To try to claim they are bad Christians because they don't want their daughter to die is just wrong.

	19-03-2005 08:06									#60
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oh yeah accurate sources... lifenews?

sorry, I maybe would have believed FOXnews