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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
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Greetings Babylon
I understand that your Nation holds myself and the Horde in contempt, that much certainly is evident.
I also understand that you require an explanation of the reasons we have attacked the Bards.
I am sorry that the other night I frustrated the chats with Beta and Shogun, we had hoped that we were to be able to give our points that night to the Bards, as we felt we owed them first explanation, and thus between Plato and I let you know as well. My fault, as Bards chat kept failing due to their being a tad upset at me. I am sure you know that feeling, I have received enough dirty emails and posts from certain people this week.
So what has been happening... in our recent history, in the last turns...
The Horde Army Group East was moving towards Antioch, consisting:
"Army Group East"
Cavalry
Bongolian Royal Red Guards (horseman 4/4)
13th Horse Guards (horseman 4/4)
Red Roughrider (horseman 4/4)
Fire Hoof (horseman 4/4)
Infantry
Col. Iron Jackson's Long Blades (swords 4/4)
Col. Earthworm's Devourer of Light (swords 4/4)
Col. Rubychaser's Wanderers (swords 3/3)
Cardial Crusher (swords 4/4)
Hammerhead (swords 3/3)
Scarface (swords 4/4)
Col. Gramps Far Striker (archer 4/4)
Bloodshaft (archer 4/4)
Miss Watcher (spearwoman 3/3)
Redwench (spearwoman 4/4)
Hot Lips (spearwoman 4/4)
Horde Long Eyes (scout)
"The Black Watch Brigade"
Khan's Own Faithfuls (horseman 4/4)
Col. Dialectic's Black Lightning (horseman 5/5)
Col. Plato's Soothsayer's Savages (horseman 5/5)
Col. Makahlua's Eingana Princesses (horsewoman 4/4)
Storm Hoof (horseman 5/5)
We knew we were to face loosing many of these in the taking of Antioch, which was on a hill and we were regularly informed by DR, and later backed up by intell, that there were walls. So in this we knew reinforcements would be needed. We put together three groups, the first being:
"The Flying Column"
First Horse of the Apocalypse (ancient cavalry 5/5)
Second Horse of the Apocalypse (ancient cavalry 5/5)
Col. Rcoutme's Royal Racers (horseman 4/4)
Shadow of Doubt (horseman 4/4)
Stormbringer (horsewoman 3/4)
We also had several Infantry Regiments that were heading out, and through production more fast movers (horsemen) as well. These reinforcements would have brought us to 35 units in theatre, all but stripping our Homelands. Yet keeping Army Group East well fuelled for any back lash from DR.
The goal was to march these units down the common road, into Bardlands, then down through the ruins of Sidon into Antioch. The only thing that could slow them down were 2 tiles that were not roaded.
Understanding that our nation is highly geared to unit production - thus 35 units. So we did not have a lot of "workers", net alone any near the Bard lands etc. So in one of my many chats with my allies the Bards, I provided them with an update of what was going on, including the information of above. I then asked for an update of their situation, i.e. how many units did they have, and when they would be committing another force, and then I asked if they could please provide workers to road the 2 tiles to complete the war road into DR. Thus allowing our troops to get their so so much faster, as I am sure you would understand.
Please I digress here for a moment. It must be explained that Army Group East was never formed as an attack force. It was put together to defend the Bardlands, as they had marched their Stack of Doom off to fight the Desolators. In this telling us 1st that they did not need our help, then 2nd asking us to move troops in as defence. Then once sitting in defence they then needed us to counter their attack. This whole operation never started as a coordinated war plan. If that was the case we would have had several cats produced, and a crew of workers along. Just had to mention that.
So here I am requesting workers to road 2 tiles, and a situation report I got comments as:
(These are pieces from the chat)
it seems we're done (EU)
I don't think we have any workers available at the moment
Dear ally, I think we've been sticking out our necks more than enough
When BOH takes out Antioch and Babs take out Aquarius, the main battles have been fought
You know what we've lost... and there was a specific reason for you to first move into our homelands,.... as we went with all we had
You want us to attack with 3 wounded swordsmen?
We have been foccussing war 100% and need some time to retreat, heal and grow
we're not able to commit too many forces. LEaving home with the units we still have doesn't seem to feel all that good
summary:
BOH moves units through our lands and request some more roading to facilitate.
BOH is fighting war
EU is retreating and thinking of changing the focus from war to growth
I came away bewildered. I asked for 2 tiles to be roaded, and a situation report, yet I had all of this other information. Something's here just did not add up at all. Maybe I worked in pubs too many years, maybe I was just shocked that they were finished after all their statements... and we were committing 35 units to a war that they had rushed into.... something started to twitch.
Here the Horde invested some gold and investigated their allies. An act Snoop feels is a gross act against such a strong allie. An act that found us looking at 5 veteran swords, 1 veteran spearman, and 3 catapults, in a city where they had almost completed a granary.
A great attack force, would have been fantastic in the DR war, just being there, anywhere, just threatening a road tile would have been great, anything... But no, these lads are all tucked up all nice and well - hidden.
Here the Horde went quiet. We met in discussions.... WHY? and how do we handle this?
It was decided, whether right or wrong, that we would give the Bards further opportunities to tell us of these troops. We would not openly confront them, but allow them to come forth with the information. They did not share any such information at any time when we placed opportunities there.
Another issue that was arising in Hordeland then was if they are not telling us of these "hidden" troops, when we have given all details of ours, as listed above, then what were they planning.... We did not like what we came up with. Paranoia ruled the day  sadly.
If we were committing our 35 units in a far off war, that we really had to get to through another nation, then what of our homelands. What was going on? Our final conclusion, whether right or wrong, was that they would strike us when we had been weakened and our forces to far away to get home. We know only to well that the lands to the east of our capital are open for a horse charge, and the SoZ is a tempting target.
And again we allowed our allies chances, and nothing on the "hidden" troops.
Thus we took their iron source from them.
I have here provided you with a great deal of the information. There certainly is more, but here you have the crux of the matter.
We believed we were being conned, an ancient of cons but a great one. You tell enough truths and give enough courage, add in some sacrifice, then the target never sees the great lie, the sting, the Con. We feel that the Bards worked closely with us through the 1st age, all nations have come to the new era together very conveniently. Thus a lot of truths were told. They committed to the TNA - courage. They even were already on their way to fight DR alone when the initial TNA Summit took place - great courage. They lost those troops - sacrifice. More years passed and cooperation between Horde and Bards very close - many truths. Then they marched there Stack of Doom of to fight DR - more courage, yet again no coordination - confusing. They then called for us to muster in their lands as a defence shield - courage to allow that when there were empty cities all around my troops - great trust given. Then they called my mustered troops to come fight DR. Next the Stack of Doom attacked DR, getting mauled - Great Sacrifice. Here the Horde were enraged, and thus started stripping our Homelands to get reinforcements to the war, and our Army Group East manoeuvred and coordinated with you for some telling blows against DR.
Thus the sting would have been when we were smashing our forces against the Desolators behind their walls, and the Bards could take into our Homelands.
Their statements and their hidden force and granary build sure spoke volumes to us.
Thus why we are now at WAR with our former allie.
Please know that the Horde is saddened by the losses of your Mighty and Noble Horse Regiments. Regiments that I personally pleaded for, and often wrote to you asking for, well you got the emails from me on that. I had thought at the time the common goal, was the removal of the Desolators, and yes that was the goal of the TNA. Yet behind the TNA we found the above.
I would like to find a way to assist the families of those departed, and to make some gesture to your Nation and people for the costs and sacrifices for the loss of these troops. I have spent some considerable amount of time trying to work out a way to help, and I stumble with it. So I look to your wise people to guide me in this.
I again state that I know your nation is un happy with me and the Horde. I am not here to change your opinions of me. You may choose to continue with this, that be your decision. I would hope that we could start to mend the many wounds I personally have caused between our peoples. I am willing to try.
Yet in all this my nation is at war with the Bards at the moment, and just may have a peace with the Desolators. (I say may, as the turn is along way from coming back to us to see to that matter). So as I now have a strange situation of wars all over the shop. I need to make two statements to your leadership. These are not said with malice, just simple fact, as I am at war.
- Your trade of the technology, please understand that if you again do not complete this trade deal, that we will consider that as an act of WAR. Simple and clear.
- Your unit, Cain (warrior 3/3), please understand that if he moves onto the road between Bloodview and Fort Napster (yes the tile next to him) that we will consider that as an act of WAR. Simple and clear.
In so many ways I apologise for those statements, yet so to either of those actions will cost my nation dearly. So please consider them
It is my hope that we can get through all of this and grow and be happy.
Paddy, Khan of the Blood Oath Horde
On a more personal matter, I do ask that if any of your nation who do not like me, suck it up, move on, you have no need to send filth emails to my home where my children can access them. You may not like my actions in this game, but this is a game.
 Attachment: mongol%20funny%20comic.jpg
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
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Greetings Lords of the Horde
We had sent a quick reply on the tech deal yesterday. I wish to clarify Babylon's position. In your recent explanantion letter, for which we thank you, you indicated the following:
" I need to make two statements to your leadership. These are not said with malice, just simple fact, as I am at war.
- Your trade of the technology, please understand that if you again do not complete this trade deal, that we will consider that as an act of WAR. Simple and clear.
- Your unit, Cain (warrior 3/3), please understand that if he moves onto the road between Bloodview and Fort Napster (yes the tile next to him) that we will consider that as an act of WAR. Simple and clear."
We acknowledge that an aggressive move by Cain, given your situation, would not be well received. Cain has avoided the road as requested. The tech trade is another matter altogether, and was addressed in my earlier letter. It was a deal that was conceived when the TNA still existed, and was in fact, part of a three-way agreement to strengthen all civs in the alliance. The situation now needs to be reviewed.
Sincerely - Beta of Babylon.
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
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Lord Beta
I thank you for taking the time to contact the Horde on these matters.
Have you come to an answer on how the Horde can help with compensation for your lost units? This is a matter that troubles me and I feel these losses persoanlly. Afterall I feel you would not have sent them without my pushing the matter so hard, and as we now feel the TNA was all a sham to get the Horde Armies out and leaving the Horde Homelands open
Do you have any questions to the explaination that we provided for our attack on the Bards? I have attached the screenshot that I forgot to place with previous letter. It clearly shows the units, and that the Bards in their "100% at war" with "no units available" and had almost completed a granary. To the Horde this was mighty evidence. Adding to that the Bards then continued to not answer emails, all the while posting else where at Poly.
Thank you for understanding our position on your unit Cain. These lads are a long way from home, do you have a plan on how to get them out of the volitile war zone they are suddenly in? Can we assist in this, ie a secure route etc.
The tech, I can see your point indeed. I hereby remove my threat of war at this time for mot sending it. Yet we supplied you with currency, which allowed you to make this step forward, so we feel some ownership of the tech, just as the Bards must.
Have the Horde upset you so much that you no longer wish to deal with us? Or is it me that your team does not like, as mentioned in those emails?
Beta, you and I have many differing styles, and many different players on the teams we represent, that be a fact. So I do not expect that the people of your team to understand all that the Horde does, nor do we expect to understand all that Babylon does. Yet we have stood with you, and have not attacked you, nor do we see you attacking us. Can we move on? I see you as a people of peace, so can we have peace?
I look forward to your reply
Paddy of the Horde
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
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Paddy says:
hello
Paddy says:
not sure if you talking with me
Beta says:
Greetings.
Beta says:
Ah - t'is only a game.
Paddy says:
are you here for long?
Paddy says:
good
Beta says:
And was not unexpected given your teams MO to-date.
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
well we not sure what to do with you strong silent types
Beta says:
Silence is a relative thing.
Paddy says:
no relative of mine
Beta says:
If we did not respond in a 12 hour period, we were demmed 'uncommunicative.'
Paddy says:
12 - no no , 20 indeed
Beta says:
Um - OK even 24.
Paddy says:
hehehe
Paddy says:
diplomacy on the edge of a cliff
Beta says:
You would absolutely die in a slower paced demo game
Paddy says:
indeed
Beta says:
And most ARE slower than this.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
but this one is fun
Paddy says:
so do you want to just surrender?
Beta says:
So - anything to talk about?
Beta says:
Um ... no.
Paddy says:
Paddy says:
hehe
Beta says:
Do you?
Paddy says:
from the Horde: "Beta, we have not played turn yet. Are you going to send fued now, or are we to war?"
Paddy says:
they very pissed on your not sending
Beta says:
And we are very pissed on you walking out of an alliance on fabricated evidence - after sustaining little or no loss.
Paddy says:
we fabricated nothing
Paddy says:
it is all there
Paddy says:
what was fabricated
Paddy says:
?
Beta says:
Oh - i have no doubt of it.
Paddy says:
huh?
Beta says:
My god - they are building a granary!!!! eek
Paddy says:
so why say we fabricated it
Paddy says:
huh?
Beta says:
My god - they kep two catapults and a handful of swords bak - after losing the bulk of their army paving the way for your attack.
Paddy says:
they told us they had nothing
Beta says:
And the might horde decides not to attack.
Paddy says:
they freaked out at us even asking
Paddy says:
they then got upset over asking for 2 tiles to be roaded
Beta says:
Um - you are not the easiest civ to deal with.
Paddy says:
then they tell us they quitting the war
Paddy says:
so be it
Paddy says:
either are you old chap
Paddy says:
but we persist
Paddy says:
we try to get peace and common goals with you strong and silent ones
Beta says:
silent ... That is a good one.
Beta says:
Well at least you are going to war with us over a tech - and not over a granary and two un-roaded tiles.
Paddy says:
yet we push and blunder as our way
and you do what, defend the bards when they will not defend themselves
there defence was to use an expired tech agreement
Paddy says:
we are at war with them for breaking their word
Beta says:
hahhahaha
Paddy says:
the granary and tiles be part of the evidence
Beta says:
Something about the pot and the kettle.
Paddy says:
they broke the alliance, we dealt with them
Paddy says:
would you have done differently?
Beta says:
Yes - we would have continued to talk until we got it resolved.
Paddy says:
would you then keep your word with the Horde on tech deals?
Paddy says:
they would not answer our questions on this
Paddy says:
they seemed to take your stance - strength in silence
Paddy says:
I wonder how well this stance will work for you both so early in the game
Paddy says:
and with someone coming to us of your new alliance - who can you trust?
Beta says:
Yes indded. Who can you trust?
Paddy says:
we trust the Horde.
Beta says:
Great. I think you are the only ones who do.
Paddy says:
Good.
Paddy says:
We have taken time to answer your requirements, and offered you compensation for losses
Paddy says:
yet you now try to form a new alliance
Paddy says:
that is quite funny
Paddy says:
when will you attack
Beta says:
Yes - and we wre eworking on a response when the public declaration came.
Paddy says:
"oh we so scared"
Beta says:
Paddy says:
sure you were
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
mate, were you going to ever honour the tech deal?
Paddy says:
truthfully?
Beta says:
A direct quote from the BOH discussion thread in the babylon forum...
Beta says:
They offer us peace at the moment. I even read that the Horde was offering compensation for the horse and admitting that they pulled us into this fight. Take it. Give them and others that would have peace with us Feudalism.
Paddy says:
and you as leader agree to that?
Paddy says:
or is that just an idea?
Beta says:
You have to understand .. we are a true democracy. And it takes time to discuss things.
Paddy says:
you have had many turns
Paddy says:
and the save has been eld up a lot
Beta says:
E_T and I are AFK all day. Klo and the others have limited on-line time.
Paddy says:
so you have had time to honour something you agreed to.
Beta says:
It takes a day or more just to get the initial views in on something.
Paddy says:
and this is almost 2 weeks old
Beta says:
That is pretty standrad for a demo game.
Paddy says:
not when we were doing a turn in 36 hours
Beta says:
Hello - your ultimatum only came a day or so ago.
Paddy says:
mate... we have been on this for a while now
Beta says:
And the suggestion of compensation - I'm not sure to be honest.
Paddy says:
why
Paddy says:
you had sent NOTHING till I pushed
Beta says:
Paddy - listen - you are a good guy - and invaluable to Apolyton. Nothing personal will come of this. But you and your team are burning bridges pretty quickly.
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
it is a game
Beta says:
But the game still has bridges. keep that in mind.
Paddy says:
and we see the game as being fast
Snoop said in the game start - Lets Rumble
Paddy says:
so do you suggest we allow Bards to attack us
Paddy says:
we should lay down and take it
Paddy says:
not likely
Beta says:
I don't belive for an instant that they were planning to attack you.
Paddy says:
your Zulus have ravaged and all but destroyed my Celts, do I cry
Beta says:
Either that is fabricated roleplay, or your entire team is on drugs.
Paddy says:
we do
Paddy says:
we believe they were
Paddy says:
why were they sweet talking DR
Beta says:
They have no army left compared to you.
Beta says:
*Beta shakes his head.*
Paddy says:
and we would have had less than them after the DR ar
Paddy says:
war
Paddy says:
it be a game of chess, look several moves ahead
Beta says:
Well - it is history now - and the sandman calleth.
Paddy says:
and deal with the here and now
Paddy says:
so no tech deal then?
Beta says:
Yep - that is our approach as well.
Beta says:
hehehe
Paddy says:
so so much we could gain together....
Beta says:
Um - I think you have declared war on us - haven't you?
Paddy says:
yet your teams silence says a big fat NO to us
Paddy says:
no
Beta says:
And the public announcement?
Beta says:
Posturing?
Paddy says:
we have taken it to the public threads to get it all open
so their is no mistakes
Paddy says:
openess
Beta says:
ah - OK.
Paddy says:
no crying like the bards
Beta says:
Nope. Not us.
Paddy says:
you are organizing an alliance against us
Paddy says:
and you have again with held the tech
Beta says:
Nope , Not us.
Paddy says:
nope to which
Beta says:
Organizing an alliance.
Paddy says:
is that right
Beta says:
We may ebe forced to do so now - but it was not our first choice.
Paddy says:
I hope the emails never exist then
Paddy says:
for I heard you have been at this
Paddy says:
and here you deny it
Paddy says:
so anything predated here shows you out
Paddy says:
one more time, are you trying to form an alliance against us?
Beta says:
We have warned other civs - but I think they know which end is 'up' in this world well enough for themslevs.
Paddy says:
yes or no?
Beta says:
thenselves
Beta says:
themselves - there - finally got it.
Paddy says:
you? yes or no?
Beta says:
Are you attacking us - yes or no?
Paddy says:
strsight question Beta
Beta says:
straight question Paddy.
Paddy says:
you still have not the courage to answer
Paddy says:
answer then
Paddy says:
Paddy says:
one more time, are you trying to form an alliance against us?
Beta says:
It is not a matter of courage.
Paddy says:
to answer a question/
Paddy says:
amazing
Beta says:
I could say yes - and if that was the truth it would give you one more reason to attack us.
Paddy says:
we called you out openly, no reply
I call you out here, you duck
Paddy says:
why?
Beta says:
I could say yes - and if it was not the truth - you would still use it even though it is not the truth.
Paddy says:
huh?
Paddy says:
I ask a straight qwuestion - yet again, and yet again no straight answer
Beta says:
I could say no, and if it is the truth, you will still scour every bit of correspondence you can lay you hands on to prove us liars.
Paddy says:
I came to this chat hopefull of peace
Paddy says:
I want peace
Paddy says:
I beg for peace
Beta says:
I could say no, and if it is a lie, well, what is one more on the pile that has been created.
Paddy says:
you duck and weave
Paddy says:
I offer you compensation
Beta says:
Yes I duck and weave. You are the ones who publically declared you were attacking us.
Paddy says:
You seem determined that we have war
Paddy says:
I came here for peace
Paddy says:
I am still here asking for peace
Paddy says:
do you
Beta says:
I have assumed that is the case. Or is the Horde not true to its word.
Paddy says:
The Horde called you out publicly as you were again ignoring us
Paddy says:
We have not broken our word to you.
Beta says:
We weren't ignoring you. We simply were not spending 24/7 on the game.
Paddy says:
If so, please show me so I can deal with where we have broken our word with Babylon.
Paddy says:
24/7, hmmm well yes that be an issue unto it self - hehe
Paddy says:
Yet the Horde has the world against it
Paddy says:
we have a very very thin calling on peace with one nation
Paddy says:
and the largest army the world has ever seen
Beta says:
I would not know about that because if I di it would imply that we had been forming an alliance against you.
Beta says:
Paddy says:
just where will those 3 main battle groups go next
Beta says:
It is still a young world.
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
not for some shall we say
Paddy says:
and as to burning bridges, well if the people on the bridges do not get off soon, they may get burnt up to
Paddy says:
hint hint
Paddy says:
why do you want us as enemies?
Beta says:
hehe
Paddy says:
what have we done to you?
Paddy says:
struth, we keep ojn keepoing on with you
Beta says:
Well - I have to go. bed time. I will take the discussion back to the team - for waht it is worth.
Paddy says:
I have no reason to be here now
Paddy says:
may I say: think long and hard, or prepare to buy civ IV for your next demo game....
Beta says:
To be honest - we had taken your declaration at face value.
Beta says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
Beta, this is a game, and a team diplomatic game
and we here to win.
Beta says:
Actually - I would like to think long and hard - but you don't give us an opportunity.
Paddy says:
will you still be here at the end for the great battles
Beta says:
(That was a good one.)
Paddy says:
10 mins is a long time, and running upsatirs at same time makes it hard
Beta says:
Plan on it.
Paddy says:
Beta says:
hehe
Beta says:
OK - good night my friend.
Paddy says:
well I think you need peace with us mopre than we do with you
Paddy says:
be well
Beta says:
Strength and honour!
Paddy says:
bye
Paddy says:
Peace and Happiness
Paddy says:
hope you turn msn on again sometime
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
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a chat with Gunner part I
Paddy says:
I have heard some good news of Babylon
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
oh?
Paddy says:
you have brokered a great peace with the Desolation Row - all for 75 gold and an old tech
Paddy says:
well done
Paddy says:
75 gold indeed
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i believe there is much more going on there
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
that would be pretty cheap, no?
Paddy says:
very cheap
Paddy says:
as the cost of one of their immortals etc would out way that
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, there must be more to the story then, yes?
Paddy says:
it is good that you have LB and DR in your corner now
Paddy says:
indeed
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
how can we get BoH in our corner?
Paddy says:
LB and DR have been in a tech alliance with us for some time
Paddy says:
then LB declared war
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
us in your corner, interesting
Paddy says:
do you have 75 gold
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and when I mean "BoH in our corner" I don't mean your military in our corner?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
lol @ 75 gold
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
actually, i think we are dead broke right now
Paddy says:
ahhhh
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Although Kloreep was sending around the collection plate among the citizens
Paddy says:
that is so so hard to believe
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Well, one thing I have learned about demogames is not to believe anything, anything at all, ever.
Paddy says:
ahhhh
Paddy says:
well I have played babylon many a game, and I would be seriously shocked if you are broke
Paddy says:
you have lost hardly any units, and you have E_T
Paddy says:
you have lost 3 cities
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
perhaps shall I say we are "allocated"
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, a terrible loss
Paddy says:
and still have many more
Paddy says:
so we feel you should have around 350 gold spare
Paddy says:
maybe a little les
Paddy says:
s
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
I'm sorry, did we hire Paddy and Associates as our auditors and accounting firm? I dont' think I saw the memo
Paddy says:
hahah
Paddy says:
do you think none of my team know how to play this game
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you have some very good players on your team
Paddy says:
we hold our own
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
a bit more in this game apparently
Paddy says:
all a bit of fun
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
for some...
Paddy says:
so yes I am sure Plato could talk with your people
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
he has....yes.
Paddy says:
recently? - good
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i don't know about recently. in fact, i don't think recently
Paddy says:
we have a few generals ready to pounce upon your lands, yet there is part of me that always looks for peace with your nation
Paddy says:
some say a two front war is bad
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
that's not going to work with me Mr. Paddy
Paddy says:
?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
starting to sound like demogame doublespeak to me
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i like the PBEM Paddy I know
Paddy says:
hmmmm
Paddy says:
you do undersdtand that my team we have various duties right?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes
Paddy says:
I be the team leader, the Khan
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
right
Paddy says:
and while I have right of veto etc, each minister, and army / brigade general has control of their sections etc
Paddy says:
thus allowing the team to have gamne control etc
Paddy says:
we do have a great council where things are discussed
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, that gives the unpreditable nature of your team...
Paddy says:
yet each person has their own responsibilities
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
adds greatly to the team experience
Paddy says:
makes us a real nation
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
right, so like I mentioned for the fact your team is winning and you have a fun way to be organized, you all are enjoying the demogame
Paddy says:
so what I said above was not meant to be double talk
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
okay
Paddy says:
yes we are
Paddy says:
so I have 2 generals in your area that are ready / whiling to pounce
yet I in my capacity would like to see peace
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
so, even if I somehow convinced you, it could all be for naught
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
if you are overruled
Paddy says:
no
Paddy says:
yes
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
it also gives you all very convenient excuses
Paddy says:
excuses hmmmm
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm being polite
Paddy says:
our chat allows me to take an offer back to the great council
Paddy says:
I only talking of this now as you said
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
how can we get BoH in our corner?
Paddy says:
and I believe I have talked peace with your nation many times
Paddy says:
and yes a few times I have been out voted
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, i was joking because even if we negotiated something, there is no way anyone on my team would believe in the deal or have any confidence in it
Paddy says:
oh
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
c'mon, let's be honest. The game is over for us
Paddy says:
well sorry, I took you at face value
Paddy says:
why
Paddy says:
you lost 3 cities
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
sorry, i thought it was clearly a joke because what could we possible over you?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
or anyone for that matter?
Paddy says:
you just won DR
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
like i said, there's more there than meets the eye
Paddy says:
oh
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
quite frankly, I think the first nation that pounces on us is the first nation that exposes themselves to danger
Paddy says:
so you believe it to be all over then
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
I believe A-M is more in danger from you guys as there army is deeply engaged with us
Paddy says:
ahhhh
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i don't believe it be all over, but i don't think the odds are in our favor
Paddy says:
even as our troops prepare to invade you
Paddy says:
no they are not
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, even more than my nation, the morale of many people is very low in this game
Paddy says:
ouch
Paddy says:
that hurts indeed
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
so the "caring" about what happens is not as sharp as it could be
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, it's not me speaking...i'm learning demogame, I'm not a main driver at Babylon
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
but I have been in a lot of chats and email exchanges
Paddy says:
hmmm
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
just being honest and friendly with a good Poly friend, that's all
Paddy says:
have you looked at options for when / if Babylon finishes
Paddy says:
thank you
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, we have discussed end game options
Paddy says:
ok
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
if you invade us there will be no reason to pursue any course
Paddy says:
will you join another team
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
somehow we have taken several mis-steps and have many enemies
Paddy says:
yes
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
joining TNA was a HUGE mistake...that's clear now
Paddy says:
no
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
we only have ourselves to blame for that one
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
no?
Paddy says:
TNA at the beginning was great
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
that's not the assessment over here
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
to us a combination of very poor judgement on our part coupled with problematic relations with you all
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
it's the multiple personalities that make up BoH, like you explained before
Paddy says:
to us it was the bards rushing into fight DR all the time
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
it's hard to strike a solid deal when you have so many voices in your team
Paddy says:
hmmmm
Paddy says:
yet our teams are the same size
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, the bards were eager for some war there...that's true
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
our organization is much different
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
2/3 of the members are particpatory, but don't drive decisions
Paddy says:
oh
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
we are comfortable with four or five folks that made many decisions
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
not that anyone is ever excluded, but I'm a good example
Paddy says:
ok
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
my job was more to learn that to pretend that I knew how to play a demogame and start demanding stuff, playing turns, etc.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
we obviously have much more experienced guys to do that stuff
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
but it worked well, because we have a good group and everyone likes each other and a lot of information was shared among the team
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
that was fun
Paddy says:
I am confused a little - in how you see a demo game as so different from a pbem
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
PBEM is one person making decisions, so it's easier to track with the individual leading the tribe
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you get to know the person, you can trust, or not trust the individual
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
for example, i have trust with you, but there are members on your team that I know to be careful around
Paddy says:
ahhh
Paddy says:
I see these games as great fun
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and you yourself say that each individual has some autonomy so its like playing 10 guys at once
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Babylon was very consistent in our message and approach
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, my experience is a bit mixed
Paddy says:
each willing / participating team member gets to take on a role inthe team
and they can build there role to what they like
Paddy says:
ok
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you should rein in some of those individuals Khan
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
or not...your choice
Paddy says:
such as?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i wouldn't want to get into naming names or citing examples...there's no need for me to do that
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm just a junior demogamer
Paddy says:
haha
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
maybe I don't understand how a lot of things work yet
Paddy says:
you also my friend
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm serious
Paddy says:
and I value your input
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, i'm your friend too...which is why i'm saying anything at all
Paddy says:
cool
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, i think you already know what i think, because you heard it from me and others...
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and some things aren't a matter of right and wrong, but merely different people having different expectations and reacting differently to situations
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
there are culture differences as players come from many different countries...and even age groups
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
so some people thing some type of playing is "unfair"
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
other see it as a part of the game
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
neither are wrong
Paddy says:
well said
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
makes it difficult to have an effective game though...
Paddy says:
hmmmm
Paddy says:
world politics
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
PBEMs have less personalities so it's easier to manage
Paddy says:
or geo political warefare
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
right - remember 2nd coalition?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
sure, not everyone enjoys the "geopolitical warfare" in the common threads
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
???
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
second coalition?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
pbem?
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
our 8 player one
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
is that the one where we all ganged up on France?
Paddy says:
in napoleonic europe
Paddy says:
yes
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, i remember
Paddy says:
then turned on each other
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
great concept for PBEM
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes
Paddy says:
hehehe
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i believe I betrayed you....
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
quite sucessfully
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
but you didn't hold it against me, did you?
Paddy says:
no
Paddy says:
I am a chess player
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
actually, you were turning the tide against me before the game collapsed
Paddy says:
and a card player
Paddy says:
hehehe
Paddy says:
maybe
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i was losing cities and CM was pissed at me for abandoning cities
Paddy says:
my point is that you play the game you are playing
and you play to win
Paddy says:
hahaha
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, but i tried to be as collegial as possible given the constraints
Paddy says:
so we are playing this team game and we are playing to win
and we are using all the cards that are available
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
right, nothing wrong with that
Paddy says:
just as we all played 2nd coalition to win
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i hope the demogame has a better result
Paddy says:
so in that we are in a new era
Paddy says:
in this game
Paddy says:
and in a new era new things can happen
Paddy says:
the Horde ishappy to demolishing babylon....
yet so to on your team are some of my "poly mates"
and in that "I" again would / could be interested in peace
Paddy says:
unless your team has already decided to leave etc
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
No, there is a sense of obligation to play the hand dealt and not be a sore loser
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
however, options are very limited
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
so limited, i return to original statement that I don't know what we could put on the table...to anyone.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and we have at least three sworn enemies
Paddy says:
you just did for DR
Paddy says:
hmmmm are we one?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
aren't you?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and why do you care that there are people on my team that you know? Why should that influence how aggressive you are against Babylon?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
if you demolish us, I'm not going to hate you
Paddy says:
why, respect for history, and the hope of seeing such greats do their amazing game play
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Paddy says:
we have not attacked you at this time
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you can be a very crafty conversationalist. I bet you used your charm to get all the girls before settling down
Paddy says:
you attacked us, and also held back 3 techs
Paddy says:
HAHAHA
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, we held back one tech
Paddy says:
3
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
attacked you?
Paddy says:
yes with your warrior
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
three? maybe I wasn't paying attention
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you delcared war on us in the public forum
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
so you can't say that
Paddy says:
geo political warfare
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
sorry, doesn't wash
Paddy says:
we were also in the back rooms trying to sort that out
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you see that's why people are frustrated with you guys
Paddy says:
because we use all the game mechaNICS, THINGS THAT MAKE YOUR TEAM MEMBERS GET UPSET
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
or maybe we suck as demogames...i don't know
Paddy says:
opps caps lock
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
perhaps, yes i see your point. To win, one should use every advantage
Paddy says:
indeed
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
however, the collegial nature of the demogame is something that many people look for...without it, they won't play demogames
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
your nations behavior is simliar to Quaddify of Libya or that lunatic in North Korea
Paddy says:
You are of the US of A
do you send troops to fight, but then not send diplomats, reporter, historians, and medics. even peace advocates
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, i understand your point
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
it's kinda tough to really replicate that in the demogame...
Paddy says:
lunatic - please I being nice here
Paddy says:
why
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i don't mean it as an insult
Paddy says:
you have the public forums, email, chat rooms, and private forums
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
just that those nations i cited are held in world comptempt because it's difficult to establish a meaningful dialogue with them
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i honestly meant no offense to you with that statement, sorry
Paddy says:
and again, your team attacked us, and with held 3 techs
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, like i said, people have different expectations
Paddy says:
ok
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you declared war and we held back one tech
Paddy says:
we are Mongols, have you ever read mongolian history?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
not in that order obviously
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
okay...i understand the ruthless nature of your civ
Paddy says:
Monarchy was held back close to 7 - 10 turns
Paddy says:
and we paid in advance for that
Paddy says:
and we had to push and push to get it
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
oh, i wasn't on the forums much around the Monarchy time, i didn't know that...i'll go read the threads around that time
Paddy says:
yet again
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
it illustrates my point again. Obviously my team thought that was in the confines of "fair play" you didn't
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Paddy the Scot
|
|
Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
|
|
a chat with Gunner part II
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and the other situation is the other way aroudn with us thinking "it wasn't far"
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
fair
Paddy says:
and in the initial TNA summit, your nation was paid in advance for a tech that you werte getting from DR
then your team claimed not to get it, yet happily moved on even when paid in advance
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i wasn't aware it was three techs
Paddy says:
so when we got to feud
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
there were many people on our team lobbying to send you guys that tech
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
I'm more familiar with the feud situation
Paddy says:
and then after accepting payment from us and the bards, you lot changed your mind on paying
Paddy says:
and you say we are hard to deal with
Paddy says:
you had already agreed to send it
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, the last situation there was a honest strategy to hurt our enemies and help our friends. you being our friend then
Paddy says:
then changed your minds, with no consultation
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
however, it was so poorly communicated to you all and it didn't change the terms of the agreement, it was not proper management of diplo relations
Paddy says:
seriously - can I do an analogy
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i can tell you that wasn't stuff being dreamed up to hurt you all
Paddy says:
you are going on a holiday
you go to the travel agent and pay her for 14 days in rome and a cruise on the med
when you get on the plane, they tell you that the flighht is ti Haiti, and you will be there for a great break, and you have a row boat allocated to you for your time
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
that would suck
Paddy says:
would you be happy?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
no, of course not and you guys have a right to not be happy with some of the Bab decisions I won't argue that
Paddy says:
ok.
Paddy says:
what hurt was it was number 3
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i guess i never knew it was three...how about that
Paddy says:
and even when Beta badmitted, he still call us bad etc
Paddy says:
that is fine
Paddy says:
just stating my case
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, i do understand your position a little better after you went through it
Paddy says:
tx
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you are probably exhausted for all the times you have had to explain it
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
sorry that you had to do that for me...one more time
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
especially being old news at this point
Paddy says:
hahaha
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i couldn't track the game during may/june a whole lot.
Paddy says:
no problem
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
very busy at work...i could barely keep up with PBEMs
Paddy says:
I understand
Paddy says:
Paddy says:
I made a commitment to this game as team captain etc
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and E_T joined our team late and was complaining about some of these decisions made
Paddy says:
E_T.....
Paddy says:
he is an enigma3
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
actually, it's kinda of an interesting guy
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
but yes, not typical
Paddy says:
he is my friend and enemy most weeks
Paddy says:
all at once
Paddy says:
been like this for a few years
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
friend and enemy in PBEMs/demogames?
Paddy says:
in Apolyton
Paddy says:
and yes in the forums
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
in what way enemy? personal?
Paddy says:
calls me a traitor for the one pbem we were in
that he quit time and again etc
Paddy says:
yes very personal attacks
Paddy says:
and also very personal friendship
Paddy says:
amazes me
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
hard to understand....
Paddy says:
thus why I took him calling my emails as crap to task
Paddy says:
yes very hard to understand
Paddy says:
ahh it is all good
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you must be a lightining rod for alot -- since you are so visible and well known
Paddy says:
he is who he is, and I can only hope that his live gets better each day
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm close to invisible
Paddy says:
yes I am at times
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
my choice
Paddy says:
I have some great mates at poly
Paddy says:
your self included
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm sure the good outweighs the bad
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
thank you
Paddy says:
and as a chess and card player
I really love the human interaction
Paddy says:
makes for msome wild games
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, it's better than the computer and AI
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
however, the reliability of humans is SO much worse than the computer
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
hahaha
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and the consistency of behavior...well that's good and bad, right?
Paddy says:
thus why all the teams agreed to the 24 hour rule
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
I am so, so close to throwing the towel in on Randomizer
Paddy says:
chris is 12 hours away
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i figure my Chinese vacation won't even impact that game since i'll only be away for a month
Paddy says:
hehehe
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
compared to playing 40-50 turns a month in DogScotGunner
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
when you get back, we can do a two player game if you like
Paddy says:
1000 years in a weekend
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, that would be fun
Paddy says:
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
maybe in civ4
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
that is close now
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm interested what the "persistent turn server" is
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
don't quite understand what's being marketed there
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
so, what could our civs agree upon now anyway regarding the demogame. You are about to invade, we can't stop you I guess, we have little to offer
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
what is something BoH wants?
Paddy says:
really
Paddy says:
gold techs
Paddy says:
and a slave or two
Paddy says:
slaves are good
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
we are about to be crushed by our other enemies
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and i don't know if we can stop them
Paddy says:
maybe we could help there
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
we are not the most popular kid in class
Paddy says:
we do have 20 - 21 units on a common border
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
can i post something in our private forums that there is the possibility to make an arrangement with you?
Paddy says:
General Ruby wants your Blood
Paddy says:
yes
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
assuming a succesful negotiation
Paddy says:
"The Rock Hound Brigade"
Brigadier General Rubychaser's Bloodletter (swords 5/5)
Grim Death (med inf 4/4)
Bataar (med inf 4/4)
Dark Flight (archer 4/4)
Vampire Hunters (archer 4/4)
Steal Heart (pikewomen 4/4)
Long Arms (pikewomen 4/4)
Paddy says:
"The Jolly Roger Brigade"
Ditch O'Keefe (med inf 3/3)
Blood Scrappers (med inf 4/4)
Harsh Treatment (med inf 3/3)
Maidens of War (pikewomen 4/4)
Girls of Wild Boar (pikewomen 3/3)
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
listen, you could list an archer and spearman and that would intimidate us at this point
Paddy says:
"Brigade of Zeus"
First Horse of the Apocalypse (ancient cavalry 6/6)
Second Royal Red Guards (horseman 4/4)
15th Horse Guards (horseman 4/4)
Tylers Heavies (horseman 4/4)
Destroyer of Hope (horse 4/4)
Fire Breathers (horseman 4/4)
The Tricksters (horseman 4/4)
Paddy says:
ahhh ok
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
listing more just takes up screen real estate
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
lol
Paddy says:
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
we have completely undefended cities and a serious barb problem
Paddy says:
hmmm3
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
or...its an elaborate trap that we are waiting for the first bear to step into
Paddy says:
hahha
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i am not allowed to disclose which
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
lol
Paddy says:
well you must have a few units somewhere
Paddy says:
I understand
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
could you let me know where we put them?
Paddy says:
?
Paddy says:
oh ok
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you seem to know about a few of our units....?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
they must be lost or switched sides to the Horde or something...
Paddy says:
I know what I was told you had in TNA days
Paddy says:
and we show that you did not loose all them
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
of course we have some units
Paddy says:
there ya go
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
lol
Paddy says:
that was not hard now was it
Paddy says:
and you call me crafty
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i have to at least offer up some level of obscurity in my comments
Paddy says:
struth mate
Paddy says:
and I offer troop lists - hmmmm
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
So Ruby want's to bury us, eh?
Paddy says:
yes
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i liked Son of Stones better
Paddy says:
hahaha
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
can you tell him that?
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
he may be down here tonight
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and tell him to take a hike...perferably away from our territory
Paddy says:
hahaha
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i guess that won't work will it
Paddy says:
he is quite proud of his brigades
Paddy says:
not when he is sure that he out numbers both you and Lost Boys combined
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Lost Boys? Who?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
why doesn't he step inside our borders and we will let him know
Paddy says:
them Vampires you guys love so much
Paddy says:
he is coming to your borders very very fast
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
okay, then, we are back to what will cause him to reconsider his charge
Paddy says:
good question
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
you see..there it is again. Your confusing org chart
Paddy says:
but a strong case will have the Great Council stop his approach
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Paddy says:
not confusing at all
Paddy says:
Great Council has all power
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
We don't have any Horde lawyers on the payroll...it's really tough to figure out what youall want
Paddy says:
I have right of decision and veto
Paddy says:
and each department head and general has power of their department and units etc
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
okay, i'll post a message tonight and see what we can discuss tomorrow. I'll send an email if there is anything of note
Paddy says:
nice and easy
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
sure...
Paddy says:
works for my 15 members
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
until the paperwork has to be submitted in triplicate or something
Paddy says:
paper less society
we mongols
we right, not write
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
ah...now I'm starting to see more of the problem in our make believe world
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
okay, no need to rehash that
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
cute statement however
Paddy says:
hehehe
Paddy says:
Paddy says:
we have many
Paddy says:
and many of us old time d&d players
Paddy says:
so we enjopy the roile play
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
who are the old D&D players? CM?
Paddy says:
many
Paddy says:
would have to check the lists
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, i should be off to bed now
Paddy says:
ok, on a side note
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes?
Paddy says:
if babylon does fall, I hereby extend a hand of friendship and the offer to join the Horde
please know that we have closed ranks, and you would be the only one offered such
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm sorry, I could not accept. No offense. I thank you for the offer however.
Paddy says:
oh, why not?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm just a junior demogamer....
Paddy says:
so
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i don't dare be honest here Paddy... I do like you.
Paddy says:
do tell
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Most people don't know me on Apolyton. So, most folks don't really have an opinion about me....Despite being Emperor, I'm an unknown
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
whether it is right or wrong, there seems to be a huge discontent/hatred/dissatisfaction call it what you will, with your team
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
there's a lot of talk that sounds awful to me, but it's hardcore nonetheless
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
apparently this kinda of thing happened with previous demogames
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i just don't want to get into the middle of it
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i don't really have a dog in this fight
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
does this make sense
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
I am sorry to hear that
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
it absolutely is not a personal thing, it's actually very nice that you would consider me...so I'm honored, but I hope you understand my reasons
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i should live or die with Babylon anyway....
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i guess die
Paddy says:
I see sour grapes from "experienced" players who are loosing
and have lost / be turned on in many games here over several years, yet still play on with a smile
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
true.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
as we both have pointed out, this is complex issue
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
good points on all sides, but it has become very personal
Paddy says:
I had hoped the "experienced" ones were truely beyonmd that
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i don't like conflict much (interpersonal that is)
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
on my team, the experienced ones did a nice job encouraging proper behavior
Paddy says:
ok
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
but they couldn't control everything
Paddy says:
yes
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Beta was very upstanding
Paddy says:
BFM is a man
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes
Paddy says:
I hold him in great honour
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
the individual you indentified as having difficulties with has not owned to anything he might have done
Paddy says:
I am saddened by Kloreep
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
why?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i thought he was cool....
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
no?
Paddy says:
I have friends on your team
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes
Paddy says:
I have heard of his attacks on me
Paddy says:
that saddens me
Paddy says:
I persoanlly invited a great many of the people that are playing in the many teams on this game
Paddy says:
and have strong relationships with many
Paddy says:
you know me, amny do as well
Paddy says:
many
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Well, something has gone wrong in this game. Clearly, you have to agree with that.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, you encouraged me to join
Paddy says:
yes, and many of the others
Paddy says:
anyway I digresss
Paddy says:
mate it is indeed late there
Paddy says:
I thank you for this chat
Paddy says:
I am sorry to have brought up this last bit
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
well, thanks for taking the time. The demogame is just a game.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
that's okay
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i understand it's a bit emotional for many
Paddy says:
no need for us to finish on a sad note for a game so many of us are enjoying
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
hopefully I haven't offended you with anything i said
Paddy says:
never
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
not my intention
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
good
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'm just trying to be honest, that's all
Paddy says:
you need to know that there are still alot of people having fun here
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and you know how dififcult email/IM communication compared to face to face discussions
Paddy says:
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
okay, that's good. I may be getting the sour grapes more in my corner of the world
Paddy says:
that is why we have poly meets
Paddy says:
get some human time with chat mates
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
i'll let you know if there is any discussion about a possible deal
Paddy says:
cool
Paddy says:
be well
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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:34
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An interesting chat with skrobism of Babylon:
Paddy says:
Hello
Skrobism says:
hello Horde!
Plato says:
Hi skrobism! How are ya?
Skrobism says:
I'm well rested. Just got back from vacation. Needed a break.
Skrobism says:
and you
Paddy says:
I will let Plato discuss matters, He is the Cheif Ambassador of the Horde
I am here, and happy to add anything
Plato says:
Pretty fair...Can't complain to much...hehe
Paddy says:
Skrobism, it be good to talk with you.
Skrobism says:
I am disappointed with all the bickering on the threads. What's up?
Plato says:
Well, we are just trying to keep the game moving a bit. Why so many delays when so many of you guys around? Anything we can help with?
Skrobism says:
I can't speak for the other that are claimed to be around. Who is around? I have had very little time this week. But, I'm not just talking about time limits.
Plato says:
Oh I see. You are looking at the whole picture
Skrobism says:
yes. I hope people are still seeing this as a game and having fun.
Plato says:
Well, I have a personal opinion on that, not an official one.
Skrobism says:
Let's keep this personal then, we can get diplo later.
Plato says:
I think that some have a hard time seperating the "in game" relationships from the personal ones
Plato says:
I know many people have formed an opinion about me based upon the part that I play in the Horde.
Plato says:
I was under impression that the "role playing" aspect of a demogame was a large part of the experience.
Skrobism says:
me too. thus my *horde posts, but we're past that now.
Plato says:
It is funny because I have really liked nearly everyone I have met here...even though my Horde self despises some...hehe
Paddy says:
thank you.
Skrobism says:
?
Plato says:
haha...I thought that was funny coming from Babylon, but I see Paddy's point..
Skrobism says:
so it's a game, and I'm losing at the moment. shall we play?
Plato says:
haha...Sure. What's on your mind Great Lord Skrobism?
Skrobism says:
The Lords of Babylon have intel that might save the Horde from destruction.
Plato says:
We would be most happy to hear that information...and its source
Skrobism says:
Babylon does not care how 'happy' it makes the Horde. What is it worth to you?
Plato says:
Lord Skrobism, I hear sincerity in your words, but our armies approach your boarders and your position is grave. We would need a token of what knowledge you posses to open negotiations at this point.
Plato says:
A sincere token from which our warring nations can build trust
Skrobism says:
I thought Paddy opened discussions via an email.
Skrobism says:
trust. funny
Plato says:
Discussions are not negotiations Great Lord.
Skrobism says:
true
Plato says:
The Horde wished to speak with you on possibilities due to past friendship and current misunderstandings.
Plato says:
Yet you open negotiations with asking us to offer up something for unknown knowledege
Skrobism says:
Trust me I never wanted that friendship to end.
Plato says:
We will be happy to talk with you about this, but need more than a dubious statement as to our destruction
Plato says:
Well, I believe you that you didn't
Plato says:
I have reviewed all the communiques from your nation and have found yours to be most honourable
Skrobism says:
thank you I am honored that you say that.
Plato says:
It is truth
Skrobism says:
I hope that you understand that I can not reveal the intel until I know that you, the Horde will at least declare a cease fire.
Plato says:
If the information is as critical as you say and proves to be reliable, I can assure you that the Horde would take a fresh look at our relationship
Skrobism says:
I hope that you understand that I have seen the Horde take a fresh look at our relationship before. It didn't work out so good for us.
Skrobism says:
OK
Skrobism says:
I have intel that a nation is ready to turn its full attention your way.
Skrobism says:
I can get troop mov'ts, and much more.
Plato says:
Haha...indeed. I must say that weather or not the "misunderstandings" we have had are just that or were truly something sinister, that your nation did not come across well within the Horde. If that is to change then we would need a different type of commitment to communication for starters
Skrobism says:
* hold on must check on the boys*
Skrobism says:
*I'm back must read*
Skrobism says:
re: Communication & action - I think that will be changing very soon.
Skrobism says:
I can improve it greatly.
Plato says:
That would be a good start. I would like to work with you
Skrobism says:
and I you.
Skrobism says:
*it's so sweet*
Plato says:
haha
Skrobism says:
Send communication to me.
Skrobism says:
ok?
Skrobism says:
cc anyone else but send it to me. makes thins less confusing.
Plato says:
The information that you have already revealed suggests much to The Horde already. As I am sure you are aware we have a large force moving in that part of the world. We also have a large force elswhere. Our military people tell us that we are ready for any betrayal.
Plato says:
I will...communicate with you that is
Skrobism says:
I can get more info.
Skrobism says:
what is it worth?
Plato says:
It appears to me though that you have a bigger problem than us at the moment. I have read the battle reports and it seems that your nation is losing its other war badly
Skrobism says:
so why bother with us?
Plato says:
Well, I hate to say it, but yes...why make peace now. Your location is a good one for us to position our southern army anyway.
Plato says:
other than this information, what is Babylon willing to offer?
Skrobism says:
Your lives!
Skrobism says:
Plato says:
Haha...I am not convinced they are in danger! Convince me. Give me an idea of what kind of troop numbers. You don't have to name countries. If the number is of concern to my Generals, then you can have your cease fire and we will begin formal negotiations. Fair enough?
Skrobism says:
It is not just troop numbers. You don't get it at all do you?
Skrobism says:
I know of other mov'ts.
Plato says:
I suppose not. Help me out?
Skrobism says:
first will you spare our lives and what are you will to pay?
Plato says:
Skrobism, I want to trust you. And I want you to trust me. The problem is that we are at war in a world where truth and commitment mean little to many. I am asking for a token of what you offer. I am offering a cease fire while we discuss whatever you reveal. How can I do more?
Skrobism says:
Sounds fair enough. For now. When are you scheduled to play next?
Plato says:
haha...who knows? I believe DR has the save now. So we will have it after a couple of more teams play. Hopefully this weekend, but is hard to prdict these days
Skrobism says:
OK. So, I have time to gather this intel into a nice neat package for you before you play. I'll send a tidbit or two. You decide if it is worth your while and I'll send some more. All before you play next. OK?
Plato says:
Fair enough. When should I expect the first package?
Skrobism says:
tomorrow by Noon US CT. ok?
Plato says:
That sounds perfect.
Skrobism says:
So, we have a cease fire, in exchange for some info tidbits. Then we can discuss other details - peace, gold, tech?
Plato says:
And Skrobism, You do know what we have moving your way right? I would not like this very much if it were a trick. Just want to be clear on that part...Trust will take some time to build
Skrobism says:
I've heard that troops are coming.
Plato says:
I am looking forward to it, but I want it to be a real trust between ambassadors
Skrobism says:
Look. I want to get the info to you before your turn.
Plato says:
BTW, has the source of this info been one of the causes of the delays?
Skrobism says:
There are many plates spinning right now. So much distrust. So much confusion. Of course that is some of the delay.
Plato says:
ahh...interesting
Skrobism says:
really. emails between teams takes time, discussion, and more time. Let's be real. Then throw in real life mid summer trips, etc.
Skrobism says:
*beer's gone*
Plato says:
Well, in the spirit of trust I will tell you what you face from us should this not work out. The Horde has been preparing well. General Rubychaser has been given command of Three Heavy Brigades...The Grey Wolves. They number 19 units with more in support coming. This is the token of my good faith I offer you. Now I want to know if the source of this info is the cause of these delays. Can you
Skrobism says:
yes. There is no need to threaten! Is that all the Horde knows?
Plato says:
Not a threat Great Lord
Skrobism says:
a promise
Plato says:
Just information
Plato says:
I have revealed our troop strength to you and asked nothing in return
Plato says:
except a straight answer
Skrobism says:
I'll get right on that stack of 20 then.
Skrobism says:
my answer
Skrobism says:
yes
Plato says:
Haha...If that is your wish
Skrobism says:
stop
Plato says:
Thank You
Paddy says:
hello
Skrobism says:
but I already said that above ..."yes. There is no need to threaten! Is that all the Horde knows?
"
Paddy says:
I am confused
Skrobism says:
ok stop
Skrobism says:
I want a cease fire
Skrobism says:
I have info
Paddy says:
Plato says:
BTW, has the source of this info been one of the causes of the delays?
Could you answer that for me please
Skrobism says:
for the third time
Skrobism says:
YES
Plato says:
haha...don't get over my head. I am from Tennessee!
Paddy says:
thank you.
Paddy says:
The chat was moving fast, I appreciate your clarifying that.
Plato says:
Yes, Lord Skrobism. Thank You
Skrobism says:
can we continue?
Paddy says:
by all means
Plato says:
Of course
Skrobism says:
We have a cease fire. I offered tidbits by noon tomorrow US CT. You have astack of doom coming our way. More info could get Babylon peace, gold, or techs.
Plato says:
Depending on the information. Given the strategic situation as we know it, it seems peace is already a big step for us to give. At this point (remembering that we do not have the secret info) I should be asking for techs and gold from you
Plato says:
I do offer honest negotiation based upon what we develop together in the next couple of days
Skrobism says:
funny. I'm going to save your skin and you want gold from me.
Skrobism says:
honesty is good.
Plato says:
Skrobism, as i said I want to trust you, but the only skin that I can be sure is trying to be saved at this point is yours
Skrobism says:
The delay until tomorrow is cuz I want to pour through my forum and get the most accurate info for you.
Skrobism says:
re: skin maybe
Plato says:
hehe
Skrobism says:
Whatever happens - war peace or nothing. I want to keep honest lines of communication open.
Plato says:
As do I. I look forward to you package arriving. You may consider a cease fire in effect while the Horde reviews it. We will take no offensive action against you this coming turn. Upon review of what you offer that may be extended for formal negotiations. I am sticking my neck out here. I hope this is what you say it is.
Skrobism says:
It is. And if things play out. Babylon could continue to get you intel as things progress. But we might need to be tricksy.
Plato says:
We will determine the next step together after we see what you offer. It would be good if we can heal some rifts here. It is in your hands for now.
Skrobism says:
It is in both of our hands. Babylon just wants peace. We want to study science and culture in our little corner of the world. I hope that we can get past these rifts.
Plato says:
Until tommorow then. When will you be available for chat in the afternoon or evening tommorow. I am also US CST.
Skrobism says:
I will check in a few times, but if the weather is nice there are a lot of weeds to pull outside.
Skrobism says:
OK 'til tomorrow?
Plato says:
Yes, That sounds good. We will speak again then
Paddy says:
Thank you Skrobism
Skrobism says:
I will post the in game diplo stuff on the private thread.
Skrobism says:
no. thank you.
Plato says:
I will do the same. Take care and Thanks
Skrobism says:
good night - bye
Plato says:
bye
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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:34
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The tidbit is in.
quote:
Lords of the Horde,
Thank you for the discussions last night.
Babylon wishes to continue it existance. We are
small, and getting smaller. Babylon wishes to study
science and culture in a quiet corner of the world.
We never wanted war - not with the Desolators, not
with the Morporkians, and not with our former friend
and ally the Blood Oath Horde. Do what you want with
Babylon, we have no way to force you to change your
mind or actions. I offer the following as a sign that
we wish to begin anew in friendship.
There is a nation that is positioning for a major
strike against BOH. It will take time, but you don't
mind. You are giving them that time. You are moving
your troops out of the way for them. Like I said this
will take time. This nation has already completed its
first steps towards your demise.
quote:
"We have a couple of prebuilds going at the moment.
Depending on what happens with the tech race, the FP
can go into any of them. As to where they are, AAAAA
is my preference, but BBBBB and CCCCC are also
building large improvements atm, and so we don't have
to make our minds up just yet." |
We know that when the Palace jumps it will be to the
side of that nation away from BOH and that they plan
to have many troops there to assure that the palace
jumps to the right place. Babylon needs time to sort
that out for you, but we know that this is to position
for an attack against BOH. I have probably already
revealed enough for you to figure out who and where.
But, Babylon will make this clear for you if you grant
us peace. More info will continue to flow from this
nation through Babylon to you. We can discuss the
price on more details after we have peace.
We will need to be very careful about this. There are
many nations that are upset with the Horde. Babylon
has insight into these many nations, but our open
peace could restrict our access. I am sure that we
can work something out.
-Skrobism
Vox Inannum
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17-07-2005 06:53
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