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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:34
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The latest exchange:
Caspian says:
Hello, do you wish to carry on with the conversation from yesterday?
PLATO says:
Greetings. I would indeed.
PLATO says:
How are things going? enjoying the game?
Caspian says:
Yes we are, things are going well.
PLATO says:
This is my first demogame and I think I'm addicted!
Caspian says:
How are things going in the land of the Lost Boys?
PLATO says:
I am not sure, as I am not the ambassador to the lost boys. Ljube is handling that job.
Caspian says:
Err...
Caspian says:
aren't you Lord Nuclears replacement?
PLATO says:
No. I am the ambassador from The Blood Oath Horde. I did hear Lord Nuc was having some computer problems though.
Caspian says:
Ahhh, so I guesse Ljube is no longer the ambassador to Babylon. I could have sworn someone said that Lord Nuclear would be getting a replacement.
PLATO says:
Perhaps, I am not privvy to those matters and our intelligence on lost boys is sadly lacking
Caspian says:
Since you are from the Horde, I guess I can ask you this. What are you planning to do with your growing military? We are far enough away to not be worried but Ljube told me relations with Morpork were bad.
PLATO says:
The warriors from Ank-Morpork had followed one of our settlers several turns and had appeared to be agressive before hand. Given that War Chariots are their UU, we felt it would be prudent to make sure we were not going to be attacked. Happily, we believe that relations may be improving.
Caspian says:
I see.
PLATO says:
As they are your close neighbors, perhaps you have an insight as to their true feelings toward our Horde?
Caspian says:
They are not under my jurisdiction, let me check our thread.
PLATO says:
Many Thanks. These type of exchanges can do much to bring our two peoples together.
Caspian says:
The Horde is not mentioned once in any of the conversations.
PLATO says:
Ahh. That is well. The Horde is very appreciative of this information. There are other types of exchanges that we may be able to explore together as our friendship grows.
Caspian says:
May Innanna be with you.
PLATO says:
And with you.
Caspian says:
This isn't a galaxy far far away....
Caspian says:
PLATO says:
hehe
PLATO says:
I am looking forward to building a good friendship with your people.
Caspian says:
As do we,.
Caspian says:
War only gets in the way of more important things, like building temples, librarys, and the such anyways.
PLATO says:
Yes, the Horde is very interested in expanding our spiritual and mental facilities. Our scientist are actively persuing new discoveries to improve the life of our people.
PLATO says:
Perhaps there are matters in which we can work together even now
Caspian says:
Those would be?
PLATO says:
Our intelligence reports that your people may be in need of some of the benefits of the Horde's research.
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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:34
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Latest cobversation with Gamecube:
Plato says:
Hi Gamecube. Got a few?
Caspian says:
Yep
Plato says:
Wanted to talk about our mutual situations
Caspian says:
About the knowledge exchanging you mentioned earlier, we would need to know what you would be willing to trade with us.
Plato says:
indeed, i do have an idea to discuss with you on that subject. First though, I would like to ask you a question if I may.
Caspian says:
Yes?
Plato says:
The warriors that you have near our land...can you tell me about the nature of their mission?
Caspian says:
Exploration
Plato says:
There has been some discussion in our Horde about your curiosity about our military
Caspian says:
We Babylonians like our maps.
Plato says:
hehe. as we do.
Plato says:
the information you are gathering about our lands...are you sharing it with anyone?
Caspian says:
We are not sharing any information of the geographical or metropolitan information gathered by our scouts.
Plato says:
so does that mean you are sharing other info? such as military movements?
Caspian says:
We would need to give out that info to warn you or any other civilization of agressors we would.
Caspian says:
*If we would need to give out that info to warn you or any other civilization of agressors we would.
Plato says:
Well, we are, of course, interested in gaining a relationship of trust and confidentiality that would work to our mutual benefit. We hope that this type of relationship is possible.
Caspian says:
As long as no aggressive movements are made toward us or other civilizations who did not deserve such actions. At this point we may not be offended if you attacked Morpork, since they trespassed, but Lost Boys would be totally undeserving of an attack.
Plato says:
We desire only friendly relations with the Lost Boys and can offer you our greatest assurance that we mean them no ill.
Caspian says:
It was only an example.
Plato says:
hehe
Plato says:
There is a certain ore, named iron, that is near to your civilization. It can be worked into the hardest of metals known to man. The trading of this technology may benefit your civilization. Do you think that your leadership may be interested in such knowledge?
Caspian says:
Our leaders would be very interested in such a thing, I shall bring it up with them.
Plato says:
Indeed, I am authorized to ask a trustworthy and confidential friend what they would be willing to offer for such knowledge.
Caspian says:
I must bid you adieu
Plato says:
Until later then.
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
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Paddy says:
Ok, so this will be an official chat, that we will record for the Horde Council to read, is that fine with you Beta
Beta says:
Fine by me.
Beta says:
Send me a copy as well please.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
Have you been well
Beta says:
Yes thanks. But bloody busy.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
first, thank you for taking this time to meet with us of the Horde
Paddy says:
as we are all busy and have much to discuss we may need to have a few meetings over the coming period
Beta says:
No problem. What's up?
Paddy says:
firstly we have offered your people some reseach in Iron Working
Paddy says:
this has not been accepted at this stage by your people, is there any thing we can be doing
Paddy says:
basically I would like to discuss the following
1.) Iron deal
2.) Their warrior blocking path south of A-M
3.) Relations with A-P, specific info on IW trade not accepted. Reason for trade not accepted
4.) Contact channel to LB
5.) Confidentiality of our military movements
6.) Their relations with DR
I see that they all merge in many ways
Beta says:
Hang on for 30 seconds. I have some catching up to do.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
Beta says:
(Beta starts scribbling his own agenda to look as organized...)
Paddy says:
hehe
Beta says:
Ok - back.
Paddy says:
The Iron deal was rejected, why?
Beta says:
To start with - we have been really quiet on the diplomatic front. This is more a function of folks not being around than anything else.
Beta says:
Regarding iron - was something previoulsy discyussed.
Paddy says:
Your Ambassador - Cube, said your team rejected the offer
Beta says:
Did he say why??
Beta says:
Sorry - but I have not been around for a bit.
Paddy says:
He indicated that another offer had been rejected, but not why
we had hoped that you would want to deal with us
Paddy says:
ahhh
Paddy says:
Well our people were very happy to meet yours
Paddy says:
did you know of the other offer
Beta says:
jdf - ooops - sorry - Simon the cat woke up.
Paddy says:
hehe
Beta says:
He likes the monitor and the key board.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
some things never change matey
Beta says:
Well - we do not have IW - and from what I can tell - no deal to obtain it.
Paddy says:
so what deal would you like to put forward
Beta says:
But - we also have no tech to trade you right now.
Beta says:
We have poly in 4.
Paddy says:
tech is only one component of a trade in a world like this
Paddy says:
I would be interested in gold
Beta says:
Understood. And poly is worth a bit.
Paddy says:
yes Poly is indeed worth a bit
Beta says:
How about IW and gold (from BOH) for Poly? Does that work for you.
Paddy says:
well it could one day, but what for Iron now
Beta says:
How much gold would you see as reasonable? And what else is there to put on the table - ie your other agenda items.
Paddy says:
I would be willing to accept 135 gold straight up
the official sale price that we have on this technology is 155 gold
yet so to it is of benefit to have a good relationship with you
Beta says:
And is the concern with OUR warrior blocking yours??
Paddy says:
that warrior and ours seem to be stoppoing the other from getting past etc is all
Paddy says:
he be a conscript scout
Paddy says:
regarding the iron tech, that would be a straight up trade
Paddy says:
there is surely other things we could do to lower that a tad, in case you do not have that much surplus available
Beta says:
Well - let's say 130 for IW.
Beta says:
But...
Beta says:
We agree to a deal for Poly as well.
Beta says:
We will also agree to a very resonable price for Polytheism. 200 gold. Which on a tech credit basis makes it cheaper than IW, and most other teams already have IW.
Paddy says:
One moment please, Plato, could you please check our scientific scrolls for this
Paddy says:
i understand Beta
Beta says:
We do not have 130 gold to send now. But I will send 30, and we owe you 100. When we deliver Poly - you send us 100 gold and we are all square.
Plato says:
Indeed great Khan. A moment please.
Beta says:
And we ask that you not trade Polytheism.
Paddy says:
your numbers do look interesting
Plato says:
Great Khan, i have transmitted the requested information by scroll messenger.
Paddy says:
ahhh
Beta says:
Another way to look at it. We are paying you 21.7 gold for each of the 6 tech credits of IW, but only asking for 16.7 gold for each tech credit of Poly. And as indicated... IW has made the rounds. I believe Poly is pretty 'fresh'.
Beta says:
(we Babylonians like math.)
Paddy says:
hahaha
Beta says:
I was also musing gentlemen ...
Paddy says:
well then, what if we were to reach Polytheism before you?
Beta says:
Hmmm...
Paddy says:
indeed
Beta says:
That is why we lock the deal in now.
Paddy says:
Then a lot of Horde research could be wasted
Beta says:
Then you do not need to spend time, or gold, on trying to obtain it elsewhere.
Beta says:
If that is what you are researching.
Paddy says:
well can we look at the deal from two angles at the moment
1. a trade of Iron tech for gold and something
2. a trade of Iron tech along the lines you have stated
Beta says:
What I was musing about is that the early civ contact and the extent of the trading, we should progress very quickly as civilizations.
Paddy says:
yes indeed
Beta says:
What is the 'and something' under #1?
Paddy says:
possible agreements between our nations on certain state affairs
Beta says:
Ah - understood.
Beta says:
Of what nature?
Paddy says:
We have much to benefit from each other
Paddy says:
and it will be a good thing for our nations to work together.
Beta says:
yes and yes.
Paddy says:
Your Ambassador has assured us that your team will report all movement of units to all teams
we prefer to keep such information in house
Beta says:
OK.
Beta says:
Anything more concrete?
Paddy says:
may we come back to the iron in a few minutes
Paddy says:
some maths needs to be looked at
Beta says:
Certainly.
Paddy says:
on other things
Paddy says:
do you know of your contacts with the Lost Boys, your neighbours to your east
Beta says:
one sec
Paddy says:
has your nation a solid set of communications with the Lost Boys, or are they truely lost?
Beta says:
We have communication with the lost boys. Do you not?
Paddy says:
yes we do
Beta says:
And are you getting along OK with them?
Paddy says:
Beta, they seem to be in a state of dissaray
Paddy says:
a tad confused shall we say
Paddy says:
how have you found them?
Beta says:
We walked by and said hello. No one got their blood sucked, so we think they are friendly.
Paddy says:
ok, so you do not have diplomatic relations at this time then
Beta says:
Yes - we do.
Paddy says:
right
Beta says:
Do you?
Paddy says:
are they confusing to your people as well
Paddy says:
yes we do, and find them confused
Beta says:
Hey - they are vampires.What do you expect?
Paddy says:
not sure who is doing what and when etc
Paddy says:
well said
Beta says:
We haven't dealt with them in awhile.
Paddy says:
ok.
Beta says:
I think 1889 is the main driver - and he may be busy.
Paddy says:
thank you
Beta says:
But we did a tech deal earlier on.
Paddy says:
Regarding our two warriors on the land bridge to the west of A-M
can we work something out to let each other past
Beta says:
I'm sure that can be arranged. I don't think there was anything Machiavellian behind our move - just a matter of lack of communication.
Beta says:
I'm looking at the 1590 save.
Paddy says:
indeed, thus another of the reasons the Ambassadors organised this time for us.
Paddy says:
excellent
Beta says:
Um - 2590.
Paddy says:
hehe
Beta says:
Yes - agreed. Long overdue.
Paddy says:
1590 would be a great bonus to see now
Beta says:
hehe
Beta says:
To be clear - we are talking about our Babylonian warrior to ethe SW of Ankh territory
Paddy says:
yes indeed
Beta says:
And speaking of Ankh - how are you getting along with them?
Paddy says:
you see a conscript warrior of the Horde there
Paddy says:
we are talking with them at times
Paddy says:
our scouts have seen their border
Beta says:
Ok - thanks. I can see from the 2550bc screenshots that Kloreep has posted that our warrior has indded moved.
Beta says:
See how quickly I can make things happen!
Paddy says:
oh, excellent, so our lad can continue his walking
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
You are indeed Supreme
Beta says:
Yup - walkabout to your heart's content.
Paddy says:
thank you
Beta says:
You will find us to his SE.
Paddy says:
excellent
Paddy says:
and how are your relations with A-M?
Beta says:
He will probably see Felinicity first. The City of Cats.
Paddy says:
haha
Beta says:
I trust he is not allergic???
Paddy says:
to pected, Felicity
Paddy says:
Becks Beer Boys are quite the Cat lovers
Beta says:
Beta says:
Back to A-M.. we have been in contact with them for awhile now.
Paddy says:
ok
Beta says:
We have also done some trading.
Paddy says:
that is a good sign of friendship
Beta says:
To be honest - it was more a matter of meeting them first.
Beta says:
But we do get along well with them.
Beta says:
We get along well with most folks from what I can see.
Beta says:
How about you and the Abba crowd. You rae failry close to each other?
Paddy says:
that is to be expected, and hoped for in these early times
Paddy says:
The Bards seem to be an honest and happy folk
Paddy says:
they play strange instruments... maybe you should not discuss that around your cats
Paddy says:
but staunch sort of folk
Paddy says:
have you had the chance to discuss life and babel fish with them yet?
Beta says:
No - we have not yet had that pleasure.
Paddy says:
I am sure you will have some fun in the near future
Paddy says:
then we come to the Desolation Row...
Beta says:
ah - yes. I take it they are far to the east.
Paddy says:
that they surely are
Beta says:
And would seem to have some expansion room.
Paddy says:
have you not sighted them at this stage
Beta says:
We have met them - but not seen their border as of yet.
Paddy says:
they are well centered on this world
Paddy says:
indeed
Beta says:
Have you had problems with them?
Paddy says:
none what so ever
Paddy says:
they are exploring as you are, as we are
Paddy says:
thus meet and greet
Paddy says:
I do expect that someone will be meeting an avalanche of Immortals from within the DR borders
Paddy says:
Their leader Aqua, and many of their Row are aggressive types
Beta says:
That would be the Lost Boys or Bjorn.
Paddy says:
well that indeed would make sense
Beta says:
Opportunities perhaps?
Paddy says:
and if successful would give them a great deal of control
Paddy says:
yes there possibly are opportunities
Paddy says:
what do you suggest
Beta says:
And make them a target for an alliance.
Paddy says:
such an alliance is a true sign of friendship
Beta says:
You know - this world reminds me of some old stories which are told around Babylon..
Paddy says:
is that so, I would like to read some of those at some stage
Beta says:
They talk of this game (if you can believe it) called survivor...
Paddy says:
really
Beta says:
Where people start out on an island - and they make alliances and deals, and 'vote' each other off the island.
Paddy says:
haha
Paddy says:
you are a comic at heart my friend
Beta says:
Perhaps. But I am also being fairly serious here.
Paddy says:
yes indeed
Beta says:
The winners in that game, tend to either be folks who can keep their heads down ....
Beta says:
(which may not be possible in this world)
Beta says:
..Or... those who can forge the strongest alliances early.
Paddy has left the conversation.
Plato says:
Lord Beta, The Khan has experienced a technical glitch and will return very shortly. We apologize for this error
Beta says:
Understood. Sorry - I think I had you blocked Plat.
Beta says:
Plato
Paddy has been added to the conversation.
Rob has been added to the conversation.
Beta says:
hello hello hello
Paddy says:
hello
Rob says:
hi
Beta says:
who is rob?
Paddy says:
Auditor General of the Horde
Plato says:
Lord Beta. Please excuse my incompetence. Please allow us to open a new chat without the technical difficulties
Beta says:
ah - WE are honoured indeed.
Rob says:
alternately....the bean counter...
Beta says:
And you are in fact a true horde.
Paddy says:
Yes we be a true Horde
Paddy says:
so where were we Beta
Rob says:
bloody too...we make new recruits sacrifice their horse milk or the head of their first kill....
Beta says:
Alliances and the benefits of same.
Paddy says:
yes indeed
Paddy says:
in the spirit of alliance then let us look to this tech deal and the many benefits that will help both of our peoples
Beta says:
The gentle babylonian shakes his head, wondering if the cultural abyss can be bridged...
Beta says:
Paddy says:
yes indeed it can good sir, indeed it can
Paddy says:
shall we look to some ideas
Beta says:
Yes - we are not a close-minded people. Culture come sin may shapes and sizes.
Beta says:
Indeed.
Beta says:
Let's talk turkey.
Paddy says:
we have iron tech now, you have gold
you will have poly tech soon, and you would like gold
Beta says:
The Lost Boys, at first glance, do not appear to be an immediate threat. They make make a good ally in fact.
Beta says:
Yes - the rade first.
Beta says:
trade
Beta says:
Yes - that is the trade - #2 from your options earlier.
Beta says:
To be honest - we can probably cut a number of trades for IW.
Beta says:
But it would be good to do business with you.
Paddy says:
we give you the Iron tech
you give us the discussed gold
we agree to Polythesium, and not to trade it
we pay you gold per turn for final amount
we then agree on date / payment roster for tech transfer
Beta says:
Agreed.
Paddy says:
ok
Beta says:
To be clear. IW for 30 gold now.
Beta says:
Poly for 5 gpt in 4 turns.
Paddy says:
Agreed
Beta says:
To alliances?
Paddy says:
Lord Beta, a pleasure
Paddy says:
alliances, indeed
Beta says:
as i was saying, I do not see the Lost Boys as an immediate threat.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
they could be very important in any matter with those Immortals
Beta says:
They may make a good ally. One to help sway the balance of power so to speak. And yes - to deal with the immortals.
Paddy says:
the immortals are an issue
Beta says:
They may be very appreciative of our support.
Beta says:
Same with Bjorn and crew.
Beta says:
That leaves A-M.
Paddy says:
A_M indeed
Paddy says:
They sit on your border I see
Beta says:
Yes - indded they do.
Beta says:
Not an issue right now - but I expect soon.
Paddy says:
Is that right?
Paddy says:
Not what I want to hear,
Paddy says:
hmmm
Beta says:
How so?
Paddy says:
they have chariots yet?
Beta says:
Don't think so.
Paddy says:
well an alliance is of importance to my people
we value our friends, and work at building and developing friendship
Beta says:
And to be clear - we do not foresee hostilities with A-M in the near future.
Paddy says:
and as we now have an alliance, well basically I would not be to happy to have an allie attacked
Paddy says:
ahhh
Beta says:
Agreed.
Paddy says:
my error indeed
Paddy says:
what do you see for them?
Beta says:
We do not want to tigger any hostilities that the alliance is no ready for.
Paddy says:
yes indeed
Beta says:
Neutrality- until the immortal business is done.
Beta says:
Then we see.
Paddy says:
yes
Beta says:
A worst-case scenario would be DR-Bjorn-A-M alliance.
Paddy says:
I would like to propose that we all start to set a series of watch towers guarding the exits from the borders of DR
Beta says:
Makes sense.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
many hands makes a smaller border
Beta says:
We will also cozy up a bit with the Lost Boys - so they can act as an early warning - if they even have their eyes open.
Paddy says:
that would be very good indeed
Beta says:
Can you do the same with Bjorn.
Rob says:
Well...you know how Wendy was seen...Tinker Bell had to wake them up...
Beta says:
hehe
Paddy says:
yes I will talk to my Blood Cell and have the appropriate people dispatched to discuss such matters
Beta says:
What I am thinking here is that the Horde and Babylon would have some sense of the 4 team alliance being struck/formed.
Beta says:
But not the others.
Paddy says:
Yes indeed
Beta says:
If you see my logic.
Paddy says:
That does make a great deal of sense
Beta says:
Guess we need more bowmen.
Paddy says:
Your bowmen, amazing shots I have heard
Beta says:
Yes - and they come in ---ah - hordes of sorts.
Paddy says:
It will do my Horde good to have a strong alliance partner as the Babylonians
Paddy says:
hehe
Beta says:
If you don't mind me using the phrase. No offence intended.
Paddy says:
no offence taken
Beta says:
Well - a good evening's work I would say.
Paddy says:
In the coming days I will have our cartography people develop some cordinates for placemnts of the lookouts
then we can discuss who will man what, and get the other two teams in on their components
Paddy says:
Yes indeed a grand day for the history of our peoples
Beta says:
Sounds good. We should also come up with a more comprehensive tech plan to avoid any duplication in the future.
Paddy says:
yes indeed
Horde Boffins will be instructed to attend meetings with our Blood Cell Ambassador Plato
Paddy says:
so this way all is good indeed
Beta says:
Most excellent!
Beta says:
Well - I will inform Team Babylon of events.
Paddy says:
Indeed
Beta says:
And just contact me whenever we ned to discuss anything.
Paddy says:
I will have a copy of this disptached to you overknight
Beta says:
Merci!
Paddy says:
It has been a pleasure
May your people live in times of peace, happines and great prosperity
Rob says:
bye
Beta says:
I wish all the Horde well, and I propose a toast to our long and prosperous friendship!
Beta says:
Cheers!
Rob says:
Plato says:
Thank you for this summit Lord Beta.
Beta says:
haha
Beta says:
Thank you Plato!
Beta says:
Good night all.
Paddy says:
Thank you and Good night
Rob has left the conversation.
Beta has left the conversation.
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Grandpa Troll
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I owe..I owe..it's off to work I go
Jul 2000
time: 00:34
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I do wish to voice my optimism for future deals that will help us as a nation grow stronger.
I think us having an treacherous front is a decision we should look at as a short road to a quick end, however us keep our business with us is best suited for our overall health and well being.
I want to not be known as a secretive society for that could birth ugly rumors and even uglier consequences for all involved.
I would however question and again I am simply questioning not convicting certainly but attempting to find out what good can come out of the meetings we will hold from now forth ward by sharing how many years we have to the discovery of whatever?
I implore all involved that this can but bite us in the end. I have no problems sharing technology but to share the scientific path we are seeking then that could give an edge, even one I are not aware of, to someone whom may be plotting our demise.
I leave you with this vision I have concerning these things:
A midget, small in stature was once sent to a kingdoms enemy. This midget slipped in under the guise of being a traveling merchant. The dark came and the midge lit his candle, claiming to be looking for fallen trinkets. The guards dismissed this as nothing of concern. However, along the edge of the woods the Kingdoms enemies looked into the darkness of the night and saw weak point in the wall, as the bright harmless candle held by a small midget exposed the very truth the enemies needed and the following day the midget departed and sold the soul of that kingdom for a mere sack of coinage, for when nightfall came again the enemy laid siege to that wall and that small seemingly useless bit of information sealed the kingdoms fate.
Have you ever heard of the Kingdom of Nigh?
Of course you have, for it is near and it is ours!
How about the Kingdom of Lockenshire?
No for that was the Kingdom that was to be and for a foolish trap set and no one tending to security it never came to its rightful place and perished like that of a thousand embers in a forest fire in a wind.
Please great leaders lest we fall by a pebble guard what is to be shared openly outside our Horde.
Offer instead a fog shrouded path of potential hope for them, such as in a shorter time than thee I feel we can have this or less than a fortnight’s laborious efforts shall produce this.
And of a final matter, a sojourner traveling abroad with little to his name and no family nor friends close to his presence for miles even past years happened upon a band of wagons hitched to a fence. The sojourner approached one of the wagon masters can thou tallest me what maketh that noise yonder behind those trees?
The wagon master looked around, lowered his voice and whispered, “A dozen plump turkeys we are having for supper and 5 fat rabbits for stewing!” The sojourner eagerly offered to buy a turkey and a rabbit off the wagon master for this would surely feed him for several days and as he was short of coinage and long on hunger, this surely would suffice.
The Wagon Master scratched his chin and stuck his hand out, taking what was the sojourners last coinage, pointed the way to the group of bushes from where the noise came from, about 75 cubits in length from where they stand and told him to go get his food. The sojourner asked did he trust him and the Wagon Master just smiled and said yes.
The sojourner put his bags down and proceeded to walk to claim his new belongings. As he closed the distance the sounds stopped and he heard the wagon master galloping away on a horse. Then another noise of a horse took off from the direction beyond the bushes. The sojourner panicked and ran for the bushes only to find 8 poor souls tied and bound, stripped of all valuables. He quickly untied them and asked what happened. They told them of this man who had taken them for all they owned for he presented himself as a guide. He offered to protect their valuables from a thief whom he spotted traveling along side of them
The wagon master was a crook whom took the sojourners last and not much it was in fact all he had. The wagon master had a accomplice. They were veterans at the art of deceit.
I say now Horde Leaders, should we go for what is in the bush or what we have straight up?
Although deals seem desirable now, what kind of deal is it to give and not receive?
I leave you wish these words.
Horde In Control
Attachment: cad1fdmn.jpg
This has been downloaded 52 time(s).
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Rcoutme2
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Massachusetts
Sep 2004
time: 05:34
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Umm...not to rain on your parade, Paddy, but isn't map-trading tech now Astronomy?
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
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--------------------------------------------
borderlands proposal 1
not sent yet
--------------------------------------------proposal 1
Attachment: 2470 babylonian borderlands base map 1.jpg
This has been downloaded 42 time(s).
Last edited by Paddy the Scot on 25-04-2005 at 17:48
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
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Beta says:
yo
Paddy says:
hello
Beta says:
Border discussion.
Paddy says:
ok
Beta says:
My team is not pleased.
Paddy says:
why
Beta says:
An alliance means we share.
Beta says:
Not get boxed in.
Paddy says:
what alliance of AM?
Beta says:
No - our alliance with you.
Paddy says:
you neutral
Paddy says:
alliance of DR as YOur team specified
Paddy says:
Your team wanted neutrality
Beta says:
OK - gotta go. Will talk shortly.
Beta says:
First walk - then talk.
Paddy says:
thank you, most saddened to hear this all
Paddy says:
ok
Paddy says:
be well
Beta says:
see you in a bit.
Paddy says:
Cheers
Beta says:
back
Beta says:
So - can we talk c3cdg?
Paddy says:
I will let you tell me your side
Paddy says:
yes
Beta says:
Ok - to start with - the trade. We have not been able to wrestle math from DR.
Beta says:
I tried everything.
Beta says:
Evena straight deal
Beta says:
I suspect he does not want us getting math because you will get math which makes me think they are doing SoZ.
Paddy says:
I bet they are
Paddy says:
ruckaruckarucka
Paddy says:
Beta says:
We have a future deal for currency, I think. Which we may never see.
Paddy says:
indeed
Beta says:
second...
Beta says:
My team was not overly impressed with the military plans.
Paddy says:
what plans
Paddy says:
we have seen none so far
Beta says:
We have been trying to work on some timelines to get troops together.
Beta says:
The plans where we support the Bards.
Beta says:
Against DR.
Beta says:
with horsemen.
Paddy says:
oh, have you sent plans through
Paddy says:
cool
Beta says:
no - we have not.
Paddy says:
we have been most interested in what Babs will do
Paddy says:
oh
Beta says:
That was the general agreement coming out of the summit.
Paddy says:
yes
Beta says:
But - we do not even have horses connected. And to do that we need to build a city.
Paddy says:
That was the agreement from our summit as well the week prioir
Paddy says:
indeed
Beta says:
There has been some debate as to the location of the next city - but I think the horse site has won out.
Paddy says:
good
Beta says:
If not - we may as well kissed the whole idea goodbye.
Beta says:
As it is - most folks are still not keen on the idea of the campaign.
Beta says:
Although it has not been outright rejected, and we are still proceeding on that plan.
Paddy says:
that is interesting
Beta says:
I will need to talk with McM and snoop to let them know that 10 turns is clearly not in the picture.
Paddy says:
wow
Beta says:
Before I get to my 3rd point - as a bit of an aside...
Beta says:
In the last tech deal, Bards (snoopy) included Philo accepted which was unexpected.
Beta says:
This upset a deal we had with Lost Boys, but we went ahead and honoured it anyway.
Paddy says:
oh did he
Beta says:
And we had to come up with an explanation as to how we unexpectedly arrived with Philo.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
you did not have to accept it
Beta says:
so - the third and most serious issue.
Paddy says:
ahhh ok then
Beta says:
Oh - it came with HBR and maps. Hard to accept 2/3's of the deal.
Beta says:
The border.
Paddy says:
but I have not replied to any yet
Paddy says:
you could have not accepted, then got them next turn
Beta says:
We sent Poly to Bards. Did you not get it yet?
Paddy says:
I think we did
Beta says:
oh - good.
Beta says:
The border.
Paddy says:
ok, but need to go back to others later then
Beta says:
The border you laid out is essentially the existing A-M/Babylon border.
Paddy says:
yes indeed it is
Beta says:
So - your thinking is BOH wipes out A-M, gets their land, and establishes the border.
Paddy says:
matey, I believe that was very clear from the summit of our two peoiples meeting
Paddy says:
we have committed to war and war there is
Beta says:
The attack on A-M was clear. The border plan was not.
Paddy says:
the agreement I believe was that you would stay out of that area, and that your people wanted to remain neutral
Paddy says:
if we win the war, then that be our area
Paddy says:
our people
Paddy says:
our cities
Paddy says:
our captured infrastructure
Beta says:
Um - by staying out of that area, we were talking short term and military - not long-term and growth.
Paddy says:
You never mentioned that, not at all!
Beta says:
And you never mentioned taking over ALL the A-M lands.
Paddy says:
oh for real
Beta says:
???
Paddy says:
you believe we would abandon it after waging war
Beta says:
Sorry - do not understand?
Paddy says:
ok, 1 moment as I write this out
Paddy says:
We have commited troops, we have lost troops
in that commitment we gain what we capture
Prioir to that commitment we discussed our plans in good faith with you
in that summit you aggreed to stay out of their
you stated that your people were to be neutral
and that you wanted an alliance against Desolation Row
"DR was voted off the island"
more.... 1 moment
Paddy says:
now you say that we must share the spoils of the war we wage against A-M with you
and also that you are not really commited to the war against DR that you wanted / instigated
also that you have all the techs, and more (Philosophy) and yet you do not have maths that was part od the deal...
what should the Horde make of all that my friend?
Beta says:
With tech deal - it was understood that we had to obtain it from DR. It was understood that there would be some risk.
Beta says:
As to DR - Euphorica wants them off the isalnd - and for the alliance, we would support that.
Beta says:
And that is the crux of the issue with A-M.
Beta says:
In an alliance, all parties have to get something out of it.
Paddy says:
matey, we had no alliance against A-M
Paddy says:
you stated you wanted to be neutral
Beta says:
We had an alliance of civs. Which implies the bigger picture.
Paddy says:
where are your troops, where?
Paddy says:
no, we made clear our stance
Beta says:
May I finish, please.
Paddy says:
ok
Beta says:
So - with the original thinking, what does Babylon get out of the alliance.
Beta says:
we get friends.
Beta says:
that's good
Beta says:
we get a tech deal - but so do you.
Beta says:
that's good
Beta says:
But that is about it.
Beta says:
Now we are looking at a situation where we help Bards get DR land, and sit by while you take all the A-M land.
Beta says:
This is a matter of the alliance (ie outr 3 civs) working for each of us.
Beta says:
Done.
Paddy says:
Lord Beta, I can understand what you say here
yet so to these points as interesting as they are do not negate the agreement that we have on A-M
Paddy says:
as to the lands of DR and thus LB there be wars and growth there indeed
Paddy says:
more...
Beta says:
???
Paddy says:
We, the Horde, see A-M and DR as two completely seperate issues
and in this we have two seperate Army Groups for the two campaigns
The Army group that has engaged and is currently at war with A-M has objectives and preset assignments, we have taken time to get these units into position and have then launched the attacks that you have read about in the world press
more...
Paddy says:
if you had wanted in on that war, then why did you not say so earlier
where is the list of units you are commiting
and then our Generals could meet and a joint action put together
Paddy says:
I see that this last minute grab as a sad occasion for our nations and friendship
Beta says:
That's not what it is. Both snnopy and I tried to reason with you and Chris during the summit. Paddy - BOH is delusional if they think the two issues are separate.
Beta says:
more...
Beta says:
Anything as major as taking out a civ changes the geo-political balance, and concerns all.
Beta says:
Especially all members of an alliance.
Beta says:
more
Paddy says:
do not call me delussional ok
Beta says:
What it says to us is that this alliance is strictly here for the short-term convenience of BOH, as nothing has been offered that benefits Babylon.
Beta says:
Ok - then you are misguided in your thinking.
Paddy says:
my reply...
Paddy says:
You, YOU stated in our first summit that you wanted nothing to do with the A-M conflict
our chat was between you and I, not Snoopy, one of the reasons we would not be drawn at the summit
also you told us clearly that the Babylonians only wanted an alliance until DR was gone....
Beta says:
Um - Ok on the first - but we did say we would prefer no war on that front. And I do not recall anything about limiting the alliance to DR's demise.
Beta says:
gotta go soon - gotta make dinner.
Beta says:
Paddy - we are clearly getting heated here.
Beta says:
Maybe it is best if we call it a night, and chat tomorrow.
Paddy says:
Lord Beta, Sire, I think we both may want to re read the original summit notes before we meet again
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
not heated...
Beta says:
If you can send the chat log (as I still do not know how to do that), I will discuss with my folks.
Beta says:
And I will reread the the original chat log.
Beta says:
Sound good?
Beta says:
This chat log. I have the original.
Paddy says:
ahh ok, but I am a tad concerned...
Beta says:
As are we.
Paddy says:
have not your people read and know what you agreed to?
Beta says:
I agreed to support Bards militarily. And I agreed to our alliance. I did NOT agree to a BOH/Babylon border agreement.
Beta says:
And frankly, that border agreement is now endangering the entire ball of wax.
Paddy says:
read what you did agree to on A-M and then we can chat
Paddy says:
oh make me laugh
Beta says:
Ok - sounds good.
Beta says:
Gotta go - really.
Beta says:
Have a good day my friend.
Paddy says:
Good night
Beta says:
Cheers!
Paddy says:
are you there
Paddy says:
most sad news I have just learnt
Paddy says:
that your nation is being offered alliance against us by DR....
very un honourable
Beta says:
huh?
Beta says:
First I have heard of it. Honestly.
Beta says:
Nothing in e-mail, PM, or forum.
Beta says:
Where did you come by this news?
Paddy says:
ok, my apologies
Beta says:
Paddy - what had you heard? And from who? That copuld be important.
Paddy says:
I need to see what I can tell
Paddy says:
we have been contacted by another nation
Paddy says:
they tell of a deal they are being invited in on
Paddy says:
that your nation is to strike us in the A-M war
Paddy says:
that the LB and DR will deal with the bards
Paddy says:
sad
Paddy says:
very very sad news
Beta says:
This news to me my friend.
Beta says:
Was it from LB?
Beta says:
They are usually very quiet.
Beta says:
ah - me thinks Paddy is fishing here.
Paddy says:
I need to check what further I can say
Paddy says:
not really mate
Paddy says:
I posted as per my reaction to the news when I got it
Beta says:
Well - that is the alternate arrangement - I would be lying I said it did not come up in our discussions in the forum, but we have approached no one with such a deal.
Beta says:
Nor has anyone approached us.
Paddy says:
ahhh
Paddy says:
well do you know of all of your nations loyalties
Beta says:
In fact - most of my team mates have already dismissed A-M as goners - so there was never any serious dicussion of allying with them.
Beta says:
I know of ours, Bards and yours.
Paddy says:
hmmmm
Beta says:
got get the BBQ cranked up. My responses may be dealyed at times.
Paddy says:
ok
Paddy says:
Paddy says:
I will be here on and off as well
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19-03-2005 07:35
oh the mire of foreign politics 
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