 |
| |
|
|
Protra3211
|
|
Thats realy too bad that Activision couldnt see the worth of the add on . But Stan first have to say what great job you have done making this mod. I dont think many people could give their time and money on something there not getting paid for. Who knows maybe this give you the skill to produce your own civilzation game. Whats out in the stores now is for kids . Im at least going to buy 2 copies and will spread the word about AOM on other game forums . On off topic section. Good luck with AOM.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
stankarp
|
|
australia
Feb 2002
time: 05:36
|
|
Thanks:-)))))))))))))
And you are right, other games are for kids. I tried to build into AOM some of the feel I got playing CTP2 on line for points in a competition. That really separated the men from the boys.
Don't forget to register for the AOM forum, you may not need to pay shipping and burning for one of those copies, you cannot "buy" AOM.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
stankarp
|
|
australia
Feb 2002
time: 05:36
|
|
When you say a manual, you mean a "Strategy Guide" don't you?
Never thought of that:-))
Thanks.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
stankarp
|
|
australia
Feb 2002
time: 05:36
|
|
Sorry no techumseh.
You have to have CTP2.
We have copies being held in USA(refer to the get AOM page at the website) or you can get it on EBAY.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
hexagonian
|
 |
Gnawing on your mind...
Jun 1999
time: 23:36
|
|
My two cents...
Stan approached me a while back about collaborating on AOM, as he was using my Cradle files as the foundation for his work. He explained to me in depth his plan to approach Activision. I was skeptical of his chances of success with them, and this was proven true when Activision declined Stan. But it was not for a lack of trying on his part to make this fly...
The only choice at this point was to release this as a Mod. The sheer size of the Mod dictated the strategy to ship the final product on CD. Sure we could try to find a host, but this does not rule out the fact that not everyone has access to highspeed connections. The simple truth is that we also need to provide a means to ship to players, so the CD route needs to be part of the overall picture. And I will state this...''This is not a money-making venture'' The cost is to cover shipping, CD creation, packaging.
We also wanted to market this as something much deeper than a Mod. AOM uses CTP2 as the base for the gaming platform, but it takes elements from game such as civ3 and EU2. The target audience was not only the CTP2 player, but anyone interested in TBS gameplay. So I suggested to Stan that he post in several of the main forums here on Apolyton.
Frankly, my opinion of many people on this forum has dropped because of some of the reactions garnered about the invasion of their 'sacred' forums. I would say, 'Hey, lighten up'...and don't take the news about a possible new civesque gameplay experience that is now available to you, the gamer, as bad or intrusive news.
As for the comments about our lack of involvement in the CTP2 Source Code, Stan's aim was to create a unique gaming experience with his own unique stamp. The Source Code is a good project, but it is also a project that is run by committee. Stan felt (and rightly so) that this type of format would greatly limit what he could and could not do - and the goal of the Source Code project is to retain the basic structure and feel of CTP2 as it shipped. As a creator of a Mod myself, I would rather have the freedom to do what I want than have to go through a bunch of people to get approval. I know that most of what I would have done for the Source Code would have been accepted, but there is also the chance that it would not have gone through.
To be honest, I almost walked out of the AOM project after I had a major disagreement with Stan about some gameplay elements, but I think I was able to get Stan to finally see the light 
Secondly, this Mod has been a lot of work...not only for Stan, but for me, since I have had a hand in this project. Stan has done all of the conceptual work in terms of the coding, and much of the actual coding itself. He has created the new sprites, and new wonder movies.
I cleaned up the tga graphics, as well as made some of them user-friendly (you will understand when you play), and probably more importantly, I was the sounding board for his concepts. I did a lot of analysis of what he had done, not only through playtesting, but also in the conceptual stages of the Mod.
As the 'official' playtester of the beta AOM, here is my analysis...
My writeup is general in nature to give a overview of what to expect.
======================================
For those of you looking for a improved civesque gaming experience, you now have the opportunity to give AOM a try.
AOM is based on the CTP2 format of civ-games, but it can be said that AOM is much more than CTP2...AOM can be considered a evolution of not only CTP2, but an evolution of the civ gaming experience. It merges concepts that are present in other games like civ3, RTW, and EU2, as well as CTP2.
Approach AOM with an open mind, and you will be rewarded with great gameplay. Put aside prejudice about the tiresome comparisons between civ3 and CTP2. It is a merging of the best elements of both setups. For those civ3 loyalists, it will fill the time until civ4 hits the shelves.
civ3 enthusiasts will recognize such elements as
- Civ-specific traits and bonuses
- The inclusion of luxury goods as happiness enhancers
- Strategic goods
- Dark Ages barbarian spawning events
- Leaders, generals and heroes that are either spawned after the construction of a Wonder, or spawned in the heat of battle
- Unit upgrades
- Creation of elite units in battle
- Kings which must be protected, as well as the need of players to ensure the line of succession
There are actual historical events that affect your civ, similar to the event-driven games RTW and EU2. A prime example is the Dark Ages, which will greatly affect your civ. (In fact, you are forewarned to take a very long-term planning approach to this event, which occurs on t300.)
AOM greatly improves not only on CTP2, but it addresses and fixes many of the problems that were part of CTP2 'Cradle', which is the philosophical and gameplay foundation of AOM...
- A more focused AI in terms of attacks
- An AI that now expands and more importantly expands via warfare. (Frenzy has been polished)
- AI multi-attacks you on a single turn
- Captured AI cities do not fall into revolt because of unmanned militias, and cities are well-garrisoned
- Ingame graphics have been polished
- Wondermovies for all wonders
- New governments/units/techs
- More balancing of ingame elements
I want to say that I am flattered that Stan Karpinski saw the value of CTP2 'Cradle' and was inspired to build upon those files to create AOM. It is the ultimate validation of what I, as well as all the others involved in 'Cradle', tried to do with my Mod.
The process of creating AOM with Stan has been enjoyable. I might disagree with some of the gameplay elements that Stan implemented, but these are minor and do not detract from the overall picture of what AOM is.
In short, AOM is probably easier than 'Cradle' in the early game, but AOM becomes harder than 'Cradle' as the game goes on. 'Cradle' had a very hard beginning, but once you got established, you could usually thrive.
Thriving is much harder in AOM...
Finally, the Mod is at the stage where it will soon go public. I do think that it is safe to say that both Stan and I will have an open mind about gameplay elements and will correct any possible inbalances that we may have missed.
This is for you, the fans of TBS games. Enjoy!
Last edited by hexagonian on 22-03-2005 at 02:04
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Protra3211
|
|
Many are waiting for Civ4 hoping it will be better than Civ3. But many would never expect a major upgrade to CtP2 . I mean the mods are great and do improve gameplay but this over the top. Maybe a gold party release is in order with each person giving a report on the last 50 turns .
Will we be able to add the source code changes to AOM . There is now AI to AI diplomacy and AI expands alot more than before . Anyone know?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
child of Thor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Damn it Stan, really a shame that Activisions are behaving in such a moronic way. AoM definitely sounds like it could be a fully-fledged sequel, especially with an updated EXE file.
edit.....
|
Well if i understand things correctly Activision currently has other issues more pressing i guess(like an EA or Rupert Murdoch takeover). So that might explain why Stan hasn't had much luck approaching them over this?
Now this distraction could be a good thing in some ways; i'm not 100% sure that even if its just to cover costs of CD handling, that the (very reasonable) £5 isn't in breach of any of Activisions copywrights, thatswhat i'd be concerned about.
Ok Stan, you've had legal advice - BUT i'd say Activision could just as easily get legal advise to counter that.
I'm just being a doom/gloom guy on this point because the last thing i want to see is you or anyone else from here, being pulled into a court and maybe loseing.
Now thw way to counter this is to provide it free as in on Apolyton. If people what to then donate you guys some money, then fair enough - provide a framework for them to do so(i'd be very happy too, as i expect would many others).
All in all it looks like an excellent product you've spent time on and hopefuly we can get it hosted here.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
stankarp
|
|
australia
Feb 2002
time: 05:36
|
|
Asmodean said "Stan: I don't think anyone here actually thougt you were violating the rules with intent. "
Reply. My advice (from 2 different lawyers) is that to sue for anything, you must prove a loss. Secondly, it is not a commercial project, I cannot even get a volunteer to ship for me apart from David. Thirdly, read the EULA carefully. It says you cannot charge for anything that Activision did or a person made with their stuff, utilities etc, even if you package that with your material. My advice is it does not say you cannot charge for YOUR own material (ie, not created with their utilities/material). Anyway, as I explained in the costing, no charge is being made for anything other than a minimal one for burning, printing, packaging and shipping the disc. I have successfully sued someone in my life, representing myself, I have a little experience and contacts in the law.
Hexegonian. said. "I think I was able to get Stan to finally see the light "
Sure did, because of Hex's changes both of us have conceded test games of AOM to the AI, having failed to prepare properly for the Dark Ages. I also found the AI was waisting 10-20% of its production because of original settings in Government.txt. With that correction and the new aggression of the AI, watch out, it has more units now to grind you down.
The Barbarian events now add that little uncertainty to the game along with the Dark Ages and the Black Death. The game play graph is no longer one way and predictable. The AI is a lot more aggressive and expands aggressively as well. In the game diary game on the AOM website, the Chinese were 47 cities when us Romans invaded them, and they had lost 2-3 cities to the other AI. They opened the war with a sneak attack with a stack of 12 on a Roman border city, taking it as soon as they appeared. In that game, the Nubians set a nice little empire of over 30 cities by capturing 7 barbarian cities.
I was typing this when Dale's post came in. Thankyou, yes I was upset about the over reaction to cross forum threading rather than looking at what the message was, the old story, shoot the messenger before you read the message
Your disc is next to my left hand Dale and is being posted with other complimentary discs to modders in 30 minutes. Thanks for your support.
For people wh really like history, many of my new sprites are as historically accurate as I could get them, eg, El Cid and Barbaross have the correct coat of arms, the crossbowman is modeled on a picture of a French crossbowman at Agincourt. El Cid's helmet, armour and tunic match other pictures I found. The Janissary is based on the only detail I could find of pre gunpowder Janissaries, etc. The Saphia is pretty accurate too.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
stankarp
|
|
australia
Feb 2002
time: 05:36
|
|
Cross water invasions.
We ran out of time to consider that fully. A lot of AOM revolves around exploiting land based resources, especially early in the game, so the recomended settings are for mainly land and continent. To get through the Dark Ages, you need outposts on luxury, medicinal and food goods. Outposts are a land based tile.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
stankarp
|
|
australia
Feb 2002
time: 05:36
|
|
I expect to continue development for some time, would like to add a few more units and things at some stage for the gunpowder and modern period.
Under the Activision EULA you can do whatever you like with the AOM material.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
stankarp
|
|
australia
Feb 2002
time: 05:36
|
|
The patch and modswapper will be in the AOM package as it needs both. I recommend doing a clean install and only having the AOM files loaded. I found it did run better with less files in gamedata etc.
However, there is no reason why you cannot keep running it with everything else, but there is a new tile file and new graphics.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kassiopeia
|
 |
Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hexagonian
So I suggested to Stan that he post in several of the main forums here on Apolyton.
Frankly, my opinion of many people on this forum has dropped because of some of the reactions garnered about the invasion of their 'sacred' forums. I would say, 'Hey, lighten up'...and don't take the news about a possible new civesque gameplay experience that is now available to you, the gamer, as bad or intrusive news. |
Apolyton has been scourged lately by bots that register as members of the forum and post on several of the subforums simultaniously making the same kind of offers you'd find in spam emails - "Get a free iPod now", "Do you want to get rich by just surfing the internet?" et cetera.
Because of this, when opening a thread titled with a question like "Looking for something different in a Civ style game?" in the mind of an Apolytoner the following thought will run: "Oh, so this is another one of those bots, although this one seems to be specialized in Civilization forums, interesting". That was my first thought at the sight of the thread's title as well.
Thus I don't think it's unusual at all for people to react negatively when someone posts on the forums following parts of the modus operandi of these spam bots. In this case it was an unfortunate coincidence and a misunderstanding, so I think getting all riled up over it is not entirely fair.
I have to say though that the fact that the poster has been a member of Apolyton for three years should have been a clue, but you won't find that out until you actually open the thread, and sometimes people just don't pick up on registration dates like that when it seems to be a spam message.
Especially because on this day and age with fast connections, like has been said before, it is the norm that files that total close to 400 megabytes are merrily made available to download. Shipping discs is comparatively inconvenient and pretty rare. On top of that, when people were asked for money, alarm bells started ringing. On the web you have to be suspicious of just about anything.
So the unfortunate reality is that these threads matched parts of the "Spam message, beware" template an Internet user has in his head, encouraging a quick negative reaction. The work that has been put into the mod is awe-inspiring and respectable in its sheer size, of course.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
stankarp
|
|
australia
Feb 2002
time: 05:36
|
|
"And Stan deserves our apology for some of the aggressive comments too ."
Apology accepted(I have apologised as well), matter now closed AFAIC. Thanks.
I have not changed anything in tile file re the numbers or anything, only added or edited tiles. So there is no reason why other mods will not run with my files. All numbers remain the same except for new ones added at the end.
"Note: if AoM runs on CtP2 1.11 patch version, it should run on the source code build as well. In which case, that would be recommended, because for single player, the source code build is definitely superior.
Stan - have you perhaps tried that already?"
I have not as I have been flat out, dropped out of IT college this semester to get AOM finished and public. Last thing I saw were problems with AI turn execution so I did not look into it as I had AOM running pretty smoothly. On my system, no lockups, 3-4 seconds per ai per turn when out of view at turn 400 when there are huge armies and empires going(often the 2 biggest ai have 40+ cities by then and 4-500 units). Delays for entering ruins early in the game down to as little as 4 seconds. NO CTP2 style CTD.
Fromafar is working on a source code build for me with a couple of changes to overcome my pet hate of easy access to cheat editor while in game and to allow more than 8 player selection on gigantic map, but not more than 12, from game setup.
Also, when you name your player (eg Stan), your King and Great King will be called King Stan or Great King Stan. He is doing it up to a certain point as apparently there is a problem with something in a recent build. One reason why I will not release to next month, would like to test it with his source build.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:36.
Apolyton Time is 00:36. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
21-03-2005 07:15
ACK!
|