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Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 21-03-2005 02:41 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
The Bush administration made plans for war and for Iraq's oil before the 9/11 attacks, sparking a policy battle between neo-cons and Big Oil, BBC's Newsnight has revealed.

Two years ago today - when President George Bush announced US, British and Allied forces would begin to bomb Baghdad - protesters claimed the US had a secret plan for Iraq's oil once Saddam had been conquered.

In fact there were two conflicting plans, setting off a hidden policy war between neo-conservatives at the Pentagon, on one side, versus a combination of "Big Oil" executives and US State Department "pragmatists".

"Big Oil" appears to have won. The latest plan, obtained by Newsnight from the US State Department was, we learned, drafted with the help of American oil industry consultants.

Insiders told Newsnight that planning began "within weeks" of Bush's first taking office in 2001, long before the September 11th attack on the US.

An Iraqi-born oil industry consultant, Falah Aljibury, says he took part in the secret meetings in California, Washington and the Middle East. He described a State Department plan for a forced coup d'etat.

Mr Aljibury himself told Newsnight that he interviewed potential successors to Saddam Hussein on behalf of the Bush administration.

Secret sell-off plan

The industry-favoured plan was pushed aside by a secret plan, drafted just before the invasion in 2003, which called for the sell-off of all of Iraq's oil fields. The new plan was crafted by neo-conservatives intent on using Iraq's oil to destroy the Opec cartel through massive increases in production above Opec quotas.

The sell-off was given the green light in a secret meeting in London headed by Ahmed Chalabi shortly after the US entered Baghdad, according to Robert Ebel.

Mr Ebel, a former Energy and CIA oil analyst, now a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, told Newsnight he flew to the London meeting at the request of the State Department.

Mr Aljibury, once Ronald Reagan's "back-channel" to Saddam, claims that plans to sell off Iraq's oil, pushed by the US-installed Governing Council in 2003, helped instigate the insurgency and attacks on US and British occupying forces.

"Insurgents used this, saying, 'Look, you're losing your country, you're losing your resources to a bunch of wealthy billionaires who want to take you over and make your life miserable,'" said Mr Aljibury from his home near San Francisco.

"We saw an increase in the bombing of oil facilities, pipelines, built on the premise that privatisation is coming."


Privatisation blocked by industry

Philip Carroll, the former CEO of Shell Oil USA who took control of Iraq's oil production for the US Government a month after the invasion, stalled the sell-off scheme.

Mr Carroll told us he made it clear to Paul Bremer, the US occupation chief who arrived in Iraq in May 2003, that: "There was to be no privatisation of Iraqi oil resources or facilities while I was involved."

Ariel Cohen, of the neo-conservative Heritage Foundation, told Newsnight that an opportunity had been missed to privatise Iraq's oil fields.

He advocated the plan as a means to help the US defeat Opec, and said America should have gone ahead with what he called a "no-brainer" decision.

Mr Carroll hit back, telling Newsnight, "I would agree with that statement. To privatize would be a no-brainer. It would only be thought about by someone with no brain."

New plans, obtained from the State Department by Newsnight and Harper's Magazine under the US Freedom of Information Act, called for creation of a state-owned oil company favoured by the US oil industry. It was completed in January 2004 under the guidance of Amy Jaffe of the James Baker Institute in Texas.

Formerly US Secretary of State, Baker is now an attorney representing Exxon-Mobil and the Saudi Arabian government.

View segments of Iraq oil plans at www.GregPalast.com

Questioned by Newsnight, Ms Jaffe said the oil industry prefers state control of Iraq's oil over a sell-off because it fears a repeat of Russia's energy privatisation. In the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union, US oil companies were barred from bidding for the reserves.

Ms Jaffe says US oil companies are not warm to any plan that would undermine Opec and the current high oil price: "I'm not sure that if I'm the chair of an American company, and you put me on a lie detector test, I would say high oil prices are bad for me or my company."


The former Shell oil boss agrees. In Houston, he told Newsnight: "Many neo conservatives are people who have certain ideological beliefs about markets, about democracy, about this, that and the other. International oil companies, without exception, are very pragmatic commercial organizations. They don't have a theology."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...ght/4354269.stm

And look ma, no anonymous sources.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 02:46 Visit DanS's homepage!
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"Sell-off plan" is a pretty loaded way of describing privatization.

The fact remains that Iraq requires a ton of investment in its oil industry and it makes sense that most of that money come from the private sector. The Iraqis would get a large cut of the pie no matter what form this investment takes.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Oct 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 21-03-2005 02:48 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
"Sell-off plan" is a pretty loaded way of describing privatization.


Why?

quote:

The fact remains that Iraq requires a ton of investment in its oil industry and it makes sense that most of that money come from the private sector. The Iraqis would get a large cut of the pie no matter what form this investment takes.


You know this because you're familiar with the Pentagon's privatization plan?

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 02:51 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Because Iraq's government is an excedingly poor debt risk right now and would be unable to raise the money needed.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 02:53 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
You know this because you're familiar with the Pentagon's privatization plan?


Even in Russia's highway robbery privatization, a very large portion of the benefits of the resources ran through the government. It seems likely to me, not being prive to the plans (and neither you, I might add), that this privatization would be at least a lot more advantageous to the state than the Russian privatization.

If you put such a bad deal on the state as an oil company, they'll just renationalize the industry after you've made your investments.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 02:55 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Again, why?

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 02:56 Visit DanS's homepage!
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See above the reason I DanSed in. If it's such a horrendous deal, they'll just renationalize. All it takes is a majority of parliament (and sometimes not even that) to do so.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 02:57 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Since when has the Pentagon acted pragmatically?

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:02 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
Because Iraq's government is an excedingly poor debt risk right now and would be unable to raise the money needed.


And? Are you implying that we're not going to give any more reconstruction aid to Iraq?

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:06 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Not that kind of money and not to Iraq's oil industry. The amount of capital required is immense. We've already put some $5 billion or so into it.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
Since when has the Pentagon acted pragmatically?


Is this low quality level of argumentation going to be what you use throughout this thread? If so, then I'll get bored with the subject and abandon the thread.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Oct 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:14 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Dan, the guys in the Pentagon are fanatic corporatists. They've prohibited collective bargaining for the vast majority of the Iraqi people. The privatizations thus far (particularly before State took over Iraq) have been corrupt in the extreme. I don't see any reason to assume that their oil privatization plan would've been anything but disastrous to the Iraqi people.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
Dan, the guys in the Pentagon are fanatic corporatists.




My interest in this thread is dropping pretty fast.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
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Oct 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:19 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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When you make collective bargaining illegal in the entire Iraqi public sector, most of the economy, what else does that make you?

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:20 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Pragmatic.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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time: 21:36
  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:25 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Because Iraq's government is an excedingly poor debt risk right now and would be unable to raise the money needed.


quote:

"Sell-off plan" is a pretty loaded way of describing privatization.


How about, carpet-bagging?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:26 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Even the Rooskies weren't that "pragmatic."

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:33
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you have to understand Ramo, to DanS, pragmatism = DanS corporatist ideology.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:33 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Seriously Dan, $9 billion of Iraqi oil revenues have disappeared in the hands of US reconstruction authorities. I find it absurd that you're trying to argue that the Pentagon's privatization of the Iraqi oil industry would've been the least bit responsible.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
Question  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS


Is this low quality level of argumentation going to be what you use throughout this thread?
The title wasn't the first clue?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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Of course, you have brought an enlightened level of deep thought to this thread yourself.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
$9 billion of Iraqi oil revenues have disappeared in the hands of US reconstruction authorities


I think you mean, "spent" without adequate documentation instead of "disappeared."

Anyway, I'm outta here.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:40 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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How about "mismanaged."

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:40 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Dino adding a vacuous comment? I just don't believe it.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Of course, you have brought an enlightened level of deep thought to this thread yourself.
Much like you my dear friend.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:41 Visit DanS's homepage!
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No, "misappropriated" implies that it was spent incorrectly. Even Soros is careful not to imply that.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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  Old Post 21-03-2005 03:44 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Much like you my dear friend.


Unlike you I actually add something to the topic rathar than letting everyone else talk about it and add my cutsey 3 word comments about what they added.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
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Yes, we don't have a frickin' clue what happened to $9 billion of their money. That isn't evidence that we're irresponsible or anything like that.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
No, "misappropriated" implies that it was spent incorrectly. Even Soros is careful not to imply that.


How about mismanaged with cases of misapproriation?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker


Unlike you I actually add something to the topic rathar than letting everyone else talk about it and add my cutsey 3 word comments about what they added.
Like what? Use this thread as an example?

 
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