22-03-2005 08:04									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo I'm still wondering who hacked your account? I don't use copouts. Only you people do.

I've been in favor of gun control since I joined this board.


Berzerker and I argued about it way before your time.

	22-03-2005 08:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I've been in favor of gun control since I joined this board.

Again, I'm not against gun control. I'm against gun bans.

	22-03-2005 08:05									#33
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quote: I don't support banning the sales of handguns in urban areas, however I do support fingerprinting and gun registration. Don't get me wrong, I don't want felons getting guns. But here in LA it is far too late for that.

You ban guns, then you'll have a situation like the UK. If the police see someone with a gun, 99 times out of 100 it's going to be an illegal gun, and they can go for him. If it's legal, he isn't allowed to carry it in public anyway, so it makes life far easier for the police to catch criminals.

	22-03-2005 08:07									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Leftists using the deaths of 10 people for political purposes. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...school_shooting

Rightists using the death of 2,800 people for political purposes

	22-03-2005 08:07									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy You ban guns, then you'll have a situation like the UK. If the police see someone with a gun, 99 times out of 100 it's going to be an illegal gun, and they can go for him. If it's legal, he isn't allowed to carry it in public anyway, so it makes life far easier for the police to catch criminals.

Yeah in the UK you have an example of where crime is skyrocketing... by other means... like knives. So your strawman attacks don't really hold up now do they? Banning guns didn't stop the skyrocketing rate in crime in the UK. In fact during the same time violent crime is falling in the US nationally. So your argument DOES NOT HOLD.

DEBUNKED!

	22-03-2005 08:08									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Rightists using the death of 2,800 people for political purposes

**** you.

	22-03-2005 08:10									#37
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Personal attack!

	22-03-2005 08:12									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Yeah in the UK you have an example of where crime is skyrocketing... by other means... like knives. So your strawman attacks don't really hold up now do they? Banning guns didn't stop the skyrocketing rate in crime in the UK. In fact during the same time violent crime is falling in the US nationally. So your argument DOES NOT HOLD. DEBUNKED!

UK murder rate rose from 1999 to 2003, very slightly, but then took a drastic drop last year.

During that same time, firearms usage also increased.

	22-03-2005 08:14									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker UK murder rate rose from 1999 to 2003, very slightly, but then took a drastic drop last year. During that same time, firearms usage also increased.

Perhaps... but violent crime was up 14%...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3419401.stm

"Violent crime in England and Wales has risen 14%, Home Office figures show."

While the US registered a drop..

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/art...15/100534.shtml

"WASHINGTON -- The nation's murder rate rose slightly in the first half of the year despite a 3.1 percent drop in overall violent crime, the FBI reported Monday."

	22-03-2005 08:17									#40
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quote: Yeah in the UK you have an example of where crime is skyrocketing... by other means... like knives. So your strawman attacks don't really hold up now do they? Banning guns didn't stop the skyrocketing rate in crime in the UK. In fact during the same time violent crime is falling in the US nationally. So your argument DOES NOT HOLD. DEBUNKED!

Hardly, violent crime per capita in the UK is miles below the US. It may be rising, but that's like pissing in a rock pool while staring out to sea.

	22-03-2005 08:18									#41
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Oncle Boris

	22-03-2005 08:20									#42
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quote: Again, I'm not against gun control. I'm against gun bans.

If by gun control you mean people being able to use guns in licenced gun ranges where the weapons are stored securely and cannot be privately owned, so at least people can enjoy a shooting hobby then I might agree with you. At the very least, weapons should not be allowed in public and especially tight controls should be placed upon concealed weapons.

	22-03-2005 08:20									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Hardly, violent crime per capita in the UK is miles below the US. It may be rising, but that's like pissing in a rock pool while staring out to sea.

Our violent crime is dropping, nonetheless.

	22-03-2005 08:21									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy If by gun control you mean people being able to use guns in licenced gun ranges where the weapons are stored securely and cannot be privately owned, so at least people can enjoy a shooting hobby then I might agree with you. At the very least, weapons should not be allowed in public and especially tight controls should be placed upon concealed weapons.

No, i'm against such pissing on our freedoms. I think people should be able to own guns privately. I don't support pissing on the constitution and freedoms like you do.

	22-03-2005 08:24									#45
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When's the UK going to overtake the US in violent crime at current rates? 20 years? 30 years? During which time, do you not think that the post Thatcher crime wave in the UK would have been arrested?

The crime rate itself is mostly in the big cities, Birmingham, London, Nottingham... but former hot spots are now peaceful, like Newcastle and Manchester... violent crime in the UK is far easier to stamp out than in the US because we're a fundamentally more peaceful society with no history of high gun penetration to deal with.

	22-03-2005 08:26									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy When's the UK going to overtake the US in violent crime at current rates? 20 years? 30 years? During which time, do you not think that the post Thatcher crime wave in the UK would have been arrested? The crime rate itself is mostly in the big cities, Birmingham, London, Nottingham... but former hot spots are now peaceful, like Newcastle and Manchester... violent crime in the UK is far easier to stamp out than in the US because we're a fundamentally more peaceful society with no history of high gun penetration to deal with.

I still don't think we should ban guns, despite what you think. I do not think gun banning as you freedom haters want is the answer.

	22-03-2005 08:26									#47
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quote: No, i'm against such pissing on our freedoms. I think people should be able to own guns privately. I don't support pissing on the constitution and freedoms like you do.

Ah I'm sorry, I didn't realise the Zombie of George III was causing you a problem. Sit tight, I'll call the House of Lords. If you see the redcoats coming, a tin hat and a flag should be more than enough to ward away the four-pounders. Just pray they don't take a liking to you and remove the bayonette... you just don't know what the Scots Dragoons will do in your climate .

	22-03-2005 08:27									#48
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whatever. I got nothing else to say to you whaleboy. you want to be immature.. fine with me.

	22-03-2005 08:29									#49
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quote: I still don't think we should ban guns, despite what you think. I do not think gun banning as you freedom haters want is the answer.

See you talk about freedom but you don't have a clue what you're on about. Freedoms on a 200 year old piece of paper are all well and good, but when children are being shot in school it all seems pretty empty doesn't it? I'm sure their corpses exude freedom from every exit wound.

	22-03-2005 08:29									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy See you talk about freedom but you don't have a clue what you're own about. Freedoms on a 200 year old piece of paper are all well and good, but when children are being shot in school it all seems pretty empty doesn't it? I'm sure their corpses exude freedom from every exit wound.

Oh give me a ****ing break. I do have a clue. You are the one who doesn't. If we listened to you we might as well surrender ourself to terrorists. And i'm sick of your cop-outs.

	22-03-2005 08:32									#51
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How am I a cop out? I don't recall ever agreeing with you.

And as for terrorists, as Imran put it once so perfectly, terrorists don't hate our freedoms, we do. Enough to keep guns in order to defend the rolling hills of Arizona, the pristine peaks of Texas and the 'lecky chairs of Mississippi from the hoards of femicommienazi gay Islamists flooding in from every shore? God bless America .

	22-03-2005 08:34									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy How am I a cop out? I don't recall ever agreeing with you. And as for terrorists, as Imran put it once so perfectly, terrorists don't hate our freedoms, we do. Enough to keep guns in order to defend the rolling hills of Arizona, the pristine peaks of Texas and the 'lecky chairs of Mississippi from the hoards of commienazi Islamists flooding in from every shore? God bless America .

No you hate our freedoms, and you want us to be ****ed over. But whatever..

	22-03-2005 08:34									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy When's the UK going to overtake the US in violent crime at current rates? 20 years? 30 years? During which time, do you not think that the post Thatcher crime wave in the UK would have been arrested? The crime rate itself is mostly in the big cities, Birmingham, London, Nottingham... but former hot spots are now peaceful, like Newcastle and Manchester... violent crime in the UK is far easier to stamp out than in the US because we're a fundamentally more peaceful society with no history of high gun penetration to deal with.

What blows my mind is that nearly every observer that lives outside of the US keeps saying the same thing, OVER AND OVER.

You Americans have too many guns and are too violent.

It's not even something they have to study or debate. It's blindingly obvious to them on the DUH level.

But our own population continues to delude itself with all this guns and Constitution crap. The answer is blindingly obvious to outsiders.

	22-03-2005 08:35									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy the hoards of femicommienazi gay Islamists flooding in from every shore? God bless America .

OWN3D

	22-03-2005 08:37									#55
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quote: What blows my mind is that nearly every observer that lives outside of the US keeps saying the same thing, OVER AND OVER. You Americans have too many guns and are too violent. It's not even something they have to study or debate. It's blindingly obvious to them on the DUH level. But our own population continues to delude itself with all this guns and Constitution crap. The answer is blindingly obvious to outsiders.

God I know... I mean as a foreigner we can sit back and have a chuckle but it must be so frustrating to be reasonable in a sea of hicks and lead. It's a problem that needs more than gun controls though, consider Japan. A long history of big long sharp things, it takes social struggle and a long war with China to arrest that, because it's something that has penetrated popular history and culture... kind of like a teenager that still wets the bed.

	22-03-2005 08:39									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker OWN3D

With that line of debates the only thing he is "OWNING" is his own ass.

	22-03-2005 08:41									#57
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quote: With that line of debates the only thing he is "OWNING" is his own ass.

Hey you had your chance with my ass

	22-03-2005 08:42									#58
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Very true.


Violence and self preservation at all costs are ingrained into our society

We have been taught that violence has solved alot of problems on many different levels, both personal and as a community. On the Community level, the Civil War (freeing slaves) and World War 2 (assisting in the defense of the free world) are in my opinion the biggest influences in our society.

On a personal individual level, I'm too lazy to type all that right now, it would take pages of psychology and history to write it all up.

	22-03-2005 08:43									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Hey you had your chance with my ass

I wouldn't touch you ever.. commie ass doesn't turn me on.

	22-03-2005 08:47									#60
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quote: On a personal individual level, I'm too lazy to type all that right now, it would take pages of psychology and history to write it all up.

I think I know what you mean, rugged individualism/self-sufficiency stuff? I think it has a place, but all good ideas have their limits.

quote: I wouldn't touch you ever.. commie ass doesn't turn me on.

You make a fantastic Frappacino Gian