25-03-2005 05:06									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious How do you know?

Cause I... um.. read the words?

	25-03-2005 05:06									#32
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Oh, and I wholly agree with the fact that a professor shouldn't shouldn't hinder his students, in that he should teach everything that is teachworthy in his field. Marxist economy isn't teachworthy in liberal economics, and creationism is wholly off-topic in biology.

	25-03-2005 05:08									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor That's funny. In economic courses (at least in my uni experience), there's pretty much a consensus that neoliberal crap is "science", and it's taught as truth. I've always criticized this crap, and I often discussed with classmates (especially the ones that are economically illiterate) to explain them that the contents were neither scientific nor true. And that's exactly the way it should be. In the field of economic Academia, this law would force professors to teach about Marxist and Keynesian economy as much as neoliberal economy. I'm not sure our self-righteous right-wingers are so eager about it

Marxism and unorthodox economics is just as scientific or lack there of as orthodox economics. The thing is that orthodox economics is often presented as though it is more scientific or that other economic thought is unscientific.

	25-03-2005 05:09									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Cause I... um.. read the words?

Try thinking about the words.

	25-03-2005 05:12									#35
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You might want to try that... it in NO WAY says he wants to make poly sci objective. He said that since poly sci is subjective, both views should be presented. In objective fields, that would be silly.

Sometimes I wonder if you turn your brain off before you come here... you can't be that bad, can you?

	25-03-2005 05:17									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Um.. history? Political Science? Legal studies? Art (guess what most of the Western art from 1000-1600+ are about)? Those that want to purge religion from the ciriculuum are delusional.

Nice twisting of my words, but no cigar.

I have never stated that religion as a background to history, art etc should not be learned - that would be absurd. What I have stated is that the education should not be based upon religious beliefs which is a totally different thing.

Just for the fun of it, try to replace religon with any political direction.

	25-03-2005 05:19									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You might want to try that... it in NO WAY says he wants to make poly sci objective. He said that since poly sci is subjective, both views should be presented. In objective fields, that would be silly. Sometimes I wonder if you turn your brain off before you come here... you can't be that bad, can you?

You can also take it that he wants to prevent professors from being subjective in their teachings. I prefer to take his word for it since you and I never see things the same way. Stop being a megalomaniac and let Odin say what he meant.

	25-03-2005 05:20									#38
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quote: I have never stated that religion as a background to history, art etc should not be learned - that would be absurd

You said:

quote: religion has only one place at a university, and that is at the theology faculty.

That's a far cry from saying education shouldn't be based upon religious beliefs. Perhaps you should be more clear next time.

And there was no twisting of words, just a logical reading of them.

	25-03-2005 05:20									#39
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I had a good argument with a student today in class. I was trying to explain what competitive consumption is, and he kept confusing it with regular market competition (the difference is that the latter produces benefits for everyone, the former arguably losses).

He accused me of being a communist. I guess that means Thorstein Veblen was a communist, despite his analysis of consumerism being the opposite of the Marxist one..

Oh dear...

	25-03-2005 05:22									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You can also take it that he wants to prevent professors from being subjective in their teachings. I prefer to take his word for it since you and I never see things the same way. Stop being a megalomaniac and let Odin say what he meant.

Seeing as Odin is a socialist, I seriously doubt he said he wanted professors to teach objective fact in Political Science classes. That would be absurd! How do you teach objective opinion? He said the right would have to had a point if they were focusing on subjective subjects like poly sci.

Just admit you read his statement incorrectly.

	25-03-2005 05:24									#41
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People get the government they deserve.

If I've learned anything in the last 6 years or so, it is that Florida richly deserves the government it has.

	25-03-2005 05:27									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I had a good argument with a student today in class. I was trying to explain what competitive consumption is, and he kept confusing it with regular market competition (the difference is that the latter produces benefits for everyone, the former arguably losses). He accused me of being a communist. I guess that means Thorstein Veblen was a communist, despite his analysis of consumerism being the opposite of the Marxist one.. Oh dear...

What a bunch of crap! Flunk the little ****!

	25-03-2005 05:29									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Seeing as Odin is a socialist, I seriously doubt he said he wanted professors to teach objective fact in Political Science classes. That would be absurd! How do you teach objective opinion? He said the right would have to had a point if they were focusing on subjective subjects like poly sci. Just admit you read his statement incorrectly.

You are reading into what he said. Not to worry. That's a normal way to read. You just don't tolerate it in others. That's where you are at fault.

	25-03-2005 05:31									#44
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quote: What a bunch of crap! Flunk the little ****!

It wasn't his fault. I'd brought it up briefly as a means of objecting to some of Mill's claims about individual liberty (the objection is that excessive individualism in search of status is one of the causes of consumerism - so that we might actually be better off being conformists rather than daring nonconformists).

He's a right wing man, and thought I was impugning his right to exploit the masses.

	25-03-2005 05:32									#45
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quote: You are reading into what he said.

No, I'm reading WHAT he said. You are the one reading into what he said.

quote: You just don't tolerate it in others.

I don't tolerate wrongness in others.

	25-03-2005 05:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I think it's a bad idea to make rules like that. There's no harm in information at the college level. College students should be able to make judgements for themselves. If they can't college is a waste of time for them.

There are a big difference between to be informed about different religions and demanding that the education shall be based upon a specific religion.

Are college students exposed to in-depth explanations of various religions such as buddism, taoism and other kinds of religion so they can make their own descicion on what they should belive in ? If they aren't, then you are right, college is a waste of time because they don't get the knowledge to make judgements.

Or maybe, if they aren't infected by religon, they actually are able to make serious judgements.

	25-03-2005 05:33									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Marxism and unorthodox economics is just as scientific or lack there of as orthodox economics. The thing is that orthodox economics is often presented as though it is more scientific or that other economic thought is unscientific.

I completely agree with that. However, heterodox economics should be taught in separate classes. And people who think like me (they're plentiful among the students) either display their beliefs and take the heat, or they lie low in class. Depending on the professor, I have chosen both behaviours during my student's career.

The creationists want to disrupt class with their opposite beliefs, but cry to mommy as soon as they feel some backfire. You can't have it both ways sonny: either you stand up and face the consequences, or you lie low and you're left alone.

Fundamentally, I think a creationist has nothing more to do in a biology class than I have tto do in a microeconomics calls: the only legitimate reasons for them to go there is to be forced by their curriculum, or to try to "know the enemy". But if you believe that organisms don't evolve, don't learn ****ing biology! Do I go to theology classes and demand that the prof says "God is but an unconfirmed theory" every sentence?

	25-03-2005 05:35									#48
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I think Kid is refering to a thead from a while back where I said that human behavior has biology at it's root or something like that (it's been too long). I don't think I ever said ALL of social science is objective, If I did It was probably when I was doing a red-faced rant about philosphers calling themselves objective.

	25-03-2005 05:35									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: What a bunch of crap! Flunk the little ****! It wasn't his fault. I'd brought it up briefly as a means of objecting to some of Mill's claims about individual liberty (the objection is that excessive individualism in search of status is one of the causes of consumerism - so that we might actually be better off being conformists rather than daring nonconformists). He's a right wing man, and thought I was impugning his right to exploit the masses.

I would be pissed about being called a communist as though communists aren't qualified to teach some how. I was joking btw, but he will probably fail anyway since he doesn't seem capable of grasping the subject matter. What course is that you are teaching anyway?

	25-03-2005 05:36									#50
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Thanks Odin...

Kid is PWNNEED!

	25-03-2005 05:38									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I think Kid is refering to a thead from a while back where I said that human behavior has biology at it's root or something like that (it's been too long). I don't think I ever said ALL of social science is objective, If I did It was probably when I was doing a red-faced rant about philosphers calling themselves objective.

Yeah. I was using that comment that you made in the Feminazi thread. I didn't get a chance to respond to that btw. I was away from my computer for a few days.

	25-03-2005 05:39									#52
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quote: What course is that you are teaching anyway?

Just intro to philosophy. We are reading John Stuart Mill and I brought that up as a counterargument.

	25-03-2005 05:41									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I don't tolerate wrongness in others.

That's called intolerance.

	25-03-2005 05:43									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: What course is that you are teaching anyway? Just intro to philosophy. We are reading John Stuart Mill and I brought that up as a counterargument.

I guess it's not a big deal that he got confused then.

	25-03-2005 05:47									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I have never stated that religion as a background to history, art etc should not be learned - that would be absurd You said: quote: religion has only one place at a university, and that is at the theology faculty. That's a far cry from saying education shouldn't be based upon religious beliefs. Perhaps you should be more clear next time. And there was no twisting of words, just a logical reading of them.

BS. If I talked about absolute monarchy noone would take that as a serious possiblity in neither a polsci or a historical class, the same goes for religion.

	25-03-2005 05:48									#56
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quote: I guess it's not a big deal that he got confused then.

No. He actually brought it up as I'd only briefly mentioned it in the lecture. We actually spent most of the tutorial arguing about Mill and euthanasia.

Fun argument though, although I think it made the other students uncomfortable.

I guess that it will resume next week.

	25-03-2005 05:55									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I had a good argument with a student today in class. I was trying to explain what competitive consumption is, and he kept confusing it with regular market competition (the difference is that the latter produces benefits for everyone, the former arguably losses). He accused me of being a communist. I guess that means Thorstein Veblen was a communist, despite his analysis of consumerism being the opposite of the Marxist one.. Oh dear...

Giving Neo-Libs the smackdown:

	25-03-2005 06:08									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That's called intolerance.

Not tolerating the wrong ideas of others may be a good thing.

quote: [size1] Originally posted by BlackCat[/size] BS.

No, just the logical conclusion to your words.

And, yes, absolutely monarchy should be discussed in poly sci and history classes (if you say absolutely monarchy, the logical reading would come to the same response).

	25-03-2005 06:17									#59
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Butt-**** the commies. Buncha peacenik wimps.

	25-03-2005 06:21									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Giving Neo-Libs the smackdown:

Well it was vigorous, although not really a smackdown. A moderate patting that will be continued next week.