26-03-2005 22:16									#121
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The court found that such evidence existed.

	26-03-2005 22:22									#122
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Republicans were the first to advocate the use of Federal Power to 1) advance the nation's infrastructure and economy; and 2) regulate civil rights at the national level, by restraining state conduct. Laws regulating private behavior existed all over the country until modern times, so I am not sure either party has a monopoly of that issue.

	26-03-2005 22:23									#123
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Ned, your regurgitation of the long-discredited allegations that Michael Schiavo abused Terri is disgusting. I know you have no compunction in engaging in character assassination, but this is slime. The courts have already heard and dismissed those allegations as not credible. Indeed, why is it such allegations never came to light until the family was in a desperate bid? The court also long ago dispensed with the claims of the nurse about what Michael supposedly said, calling her claims "not credible."

So how about some actual evidence to back up the sleazy claims, instead of hearsay from right-wing fanatics who will say anything to get their way?

	26-03-2005 22:25									#124
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Che, when they examined Terri for the medical malpractice case, she was found to have sustained a broken back and a broken femur. I don't know whether this information was conveyed to the police who had initially declared the matter as an attempted homicide. Why there was no initial police followup investigate the circumstances of Terri's event is a matter the press is trying to resolve, but the police are not cooperating.

	26-03-2005 22:27									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Che, when they examined Terri for the medical malpractice case, she was found to have sustained a broken back and a broken femur.

Evidence, please.

	26-03-2005 22:28									#126
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...damaged_woman_7

No more federal appeals for the Schindlers, and their last-ditch effort has just been denied by the Florida judge. This is probably the last of the legal maneuvers.

	27-03-2005 00:28									#127
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ze_exclusive_wa

damn, that would have been cool if the federal agents had a showdown with local police. That would have made my day. Yes I'm treating this as a big tv show or made for tv movie. I don't want anyone to get hurt (except for Terri), I just want entertainment.

	27-03-2005 00:43									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Ned shawn, Florida law also requires the consent of the victim that must be proved by "clear and convincing" evidence.

I object to the use of the word victim. You are trying to skew the matter through wordsmithing.

Not that you are doing a bad job, but it totally undermines your credibility. About the only people you coulld convince with your prejudiced crap would be your fellow back benchers from the Baptist church.

I have to yield to your earlier statement that I don't understand what lawyers do, Ned, clearly you have a much better grasp on the ability of lawyers to twist the truth into an unknowable murk.

	27-03-2005 01:09									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...damaged_woman_7 No more federal appeals for the Schindlers, and their last-ditch effort has just been denied by the Florida judge. This is probably the last of the legal maneuvers.

Illegal maneuvers shall now commence.

Seriously, I think Jeb surely flirted with the law already.

Here is where you have to remember that Jeb, George, and the shadowy figures just off stage right, do not want to save Terri, but want this to be as spectactularly emotional as possible so that it will serve well to whip the frenzy of the base.

This is all about Roe v. Wade and is probably one of the more skillful propaganda campaigns I have seen in my lifetime.

I get so irked when folks say, no, the repubs aren't doing that, it would be stupid, look at the poll numbers, the majority is against them.

People are stupid. Propaganda is WHAT YOU USE when the polls do not support your position. Propaganda changes poll numbers and NONE HERE would be so shallow as to argue against the clearly evident fact that the first element of a propaganda campaign has already been achieved; the level of raw emotion surrounding has been raised to such an elevated level that it now precludes rational thinking among the faithful. This right to life mania will now simmer at just below critical mass until Terri's death, at which point many in our society who have been unconcerned and unattached to this debate will be SWEPT UP by the emotional tumult and suddenly and permanently branded by it and then my friends, the churches will overflow and you will look at the polls and you will UNDERSTAND how it was, the methods, that allow the National Socialist to swept into power in Europe between the great wars.

This is a time of gathering darkness in America.

I speak not as a liberal, but as a conservative, born again Christian, who has witnessed the usurpation of the national Church by these radical elements. The hate mongering must stop. These people must be stopped.

I appeal to those of you now in the iron grip of these beast, THINK FOR YOURSELVES! Remember the love of Christ and judge daily if the Church is serving the will of God or if it has only become a MOB.

Letting Terri go is the humane, and Christian, thing to do. Using her as a pawn in the great national debate is a transparent and arrogant act by the RR; they now no longer believe that they can be stopped.

	27-03-2005 02:14									#130
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While letting terri go is humane starving her to death is not. This whole thing may be political to all of you but i bet its not to the parents. They have no other way to save a child they believe in, Hence them using the court system.
Im sure they cant just waltz in and take her away that would be kidnapping.

	27-03-2005 02:17									#131
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she's not starving to death, she's dying of thirst.

she can't feel pain.

	27-03-2005 02:18									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski While letting terri go is humane starving her to death is not.

No it isn't, because she isn't conscious of it. And as I said 2 threads back when I related the story about my grandmother, even if she were, she wouldn't likely be in any real discomfort.

	27-03-2005 02:19									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski While letting terri go is humane starving her to death is not. This whole thing may be political to all of you but i bet its not to the parents. They have no other way to save a child they believe in, Hence them using the court system. Im sure they cant just waltz in and take her away that would be kidnapping.

the parents (and the husband) actually did take Terri home at one point in the 90's. She proved to be too much of a burden.

The parents want it both ways. They want the hospice to take care of her and do the "messy" stuff and have the state pay for it. While they can still keep their little girl.

They are going to eventually have to face reality. Just hearing the father at the press conferences, you can hear the denial.

	27-03-2005 02:22									#134
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I dont know if she can or cannot feel pain. I have not researched her condition, Logically who in the hell can state this fact. Someone whos been there and what never came back. I know research on subjects like her decided this. All cases are different not every person in this condition are all the same .

	27-03-2005 02:25									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident the parents (and the husband) actually did take Terri home at one point in the 90's. She proved to be too much of a burden. The parents want it both ways. They want the hospice to take care of her and do the "messy" stuff and have the state pay for it. While they can still keep their little girl. They are going to eventually have to face reality. Just hearing the father at the press conferences, you can hear the denial.

And diss i stated in the first thead on this the parents dont want to let go. I think its more the mother then the fther that doesnt want her gone but you cant blame her she brought this lady in the world. tying up valuable time in the courts is wrong but what other route does she have at this point.

	27-03-2005 02:49									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident she can't feel pain.

I'm glad we have everything worked out about the brain to understand such things. Its even better that we can do the diagnoses without resorting to using an MRI or a PET scan.

	27-03-2005 02:52									#137
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can't do an MRI until those devices in her head are removed.

	27-03-2005 02:55									#138
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*sick thought ahead*

is starving to death an ironic death for someone with an eating disorder? True, she's not really starving to death, but dying of thirst (which is painless btw). If she feels anything, it's hunger pains. And I'm not going to boohoo about those. I went through the same thing when I lost 50 pounds.

	27-03-2005 02:55									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident can't do an MRI until those devices in her head are removed.

They instructed her husband to have them removed.

	27-03-2005 02:59									#140
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some of you guys don't understand he has authority over her in this state. No one can accept this.

It makes no difference is she's in a PVS or semi-concious. Semi-concious is even a worse state. This means she's aware of the hell she's in. She must feel real great in that case about her parents prolonging her agony.

No matter what her diagnosis, the result is obvious. She's not even close to the level of being disabled. She's nothing.

No one can respect the husband's wishes. They want to impose their own morality on her.

	27-03-2005 02:59									#141
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quote: but dying of thirst (which is painless btw

Painless, it's basically the ultimate hangover. I never had a hangover that was painless.

	27-03-2005 03:00									#142
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: but dying of thirst (which is painless btw Painless, it's basically the ultimate hangover. I never had a hangover that was painless.

dying of thirst is not the same of a hangover.

hangovers also have to deal with alcohol withdrawal from the body.

and even if it is as bad as hangover so what. hangovers aren't that bad. I've went through many of them. People intentionally inflict them, they can't be that bad.

OMFG she has a headache!! This torture must be stopped!!

	27-03-2005 03:04									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident some of you guys don't understand he has authority over her in this state. No one can accept this. It makes no difference is she's in a PVS or semi-concious. Semi-concious is even a worse state. This means she's aware of the hell she's in. She must feel real great in that case about her parents prolonging her agony. No matter what her diagnosis, the result is obvious. She's not even close to the level of being disabled. She's nothing. No one can respect the husband's wishes. They want to impose their own morality on her.

Don't you need a living will to explicitly spell out the expressed desire to die in such a situation?

	27-03-2005 03:06									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha Don't you need a living will to explicitly spell out the expressed desire to die in such a situation?

I admit I'm not up on the law about this exactly.

You can argue that spouses should not have say over their loved ones in this situation. In fact, I've argued this in the first Terri thread. I don't like the husband's motivations. But the law is the law. And no one can seem to respect the law.

If you don't like it, change the power of attorney laws of spouses. In fact, better yet, dissolve the institution of marriage altogether.

	27-03-2005 03:07									#145
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When was the last time we had three threads on something?

It's a disgrace to Apolyton that this is getting more posts than MRT144's porn thread.

Priorities people...

	27-03-2005 03:08									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident dying of thirst is not the same of a hangover. hangovers also have to deal with alcohol withdrawal from the body. and even if it is as bad as hangover so what. hangovers aren't that bad. I've went through many of them. People intentionally inflict them, they can't be that bad. OMFG she has a headache!! This torture must be stopped!!

The bad feeling you have with a hangover is basically dehydration...
I did say ultimat hangover, not run of the mill. Anyway, I didn't say she would feel any pain.

Yes, I too have had my share of them and the reason why we do it again, is bad short term memory.

	27-03-2005 03:10									#147
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the doctors said that once the kidneys reach a state, they start producing something (sorry, can't remember the name) it basically eliminates any discomfort. That was what was said by a doctor on CNN today. And I'm sure they have this by the many cases of people dying of thirst, but were able to be saved and thus told their stories.

	27-03-2005 03:12									#148
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Could very well be true but then there's always the phase before that, hey.

	27-03-2005 03:14									#149
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quote: Kalius, the role of the attorney is to assume that the victum wants to live and force those who say otherwise to prove it with competent evidence.

That sounds more like what a lawyer for the family is supposed to do.

	27-03-2005 03:14									#150
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yes.. it would be more humane (and much quicker) to euthanize her. But that is illegal. I would think they would at least give her lots of morphine. So she could die high as a kite.