 |
| |
|
|
Spiffor
|
 |
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Those guys were a bunch of ****tards but they weren't practicing Christianity as explained in the Bible. |
From the deuteronomy, a part of the Holy Book whose Truth is absolute and literal:
quote:
22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. |
I admit, there are two elements one can be pedantic with. In any case, this infinite truth of Christianty is exactly as cruel as the Moslem dogma you denounce (I've not seen the Koran say something like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if the current Saudi execution methods come directly from GOD!!!!). But once again, I don't see how the dogmas differ from each other. They encompass a museum of horrors that should terrify any modern mind.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Heresson
|
 |
of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
I have a very interesting book (with pictures as well as text) illustrating just how bad the Roman Catholic Inquisition was to women. However the anti-female/anti-sex rage was not confined to them, and there was witch burning and hanging and ducking and immersion in Protestant England and Scotland too.
Adultery was punished, but off the top of my head I can't remember the exact punishment- but I suspect in extreme cases mutilation was involved- slicing off the nose, boring a hole in the tongue and cutting the cheeks were popular punishments.
|
Your imagination I presume.
I've read exercts from one of the most popular medieval punishment books (whatever; it was kind of unofficial manual for punishments, traditions, quotes, pretty popuar in MA, but in fact later on condemned) (in Le Goff's book I think; the author of this book was a bishop somewhere in Lorraine if I recall, I can check that), and the punishments for adultery was in general a fast - bread and water. Not too long for a guy, it was i think sth like 2 weeks if both were not married, more if they were. For woman, it was much much more.
quote:
I'd say the sharia and the Wahhabists would have found like minds in Calvin's Geneva and Cromwell's England.
|
But this is past. It has nothing to do with Christianity itself and modern-day Christians.
quote:
Even the catholic church in its darkest hours wasn't exactly fundie. But if you want to imagine an actual Christian fundy country, just take a look at the Leviticus and Deuteronomy. It's not any nicer than what is done in Saudi
|
This is OT bs. Jesus came to free people from such stuff, it's obvious for anyone who's not utterly biased.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Spiffor
|
|
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Heresson
This is OT bs. Jesus came to free people from such stuff, it's obvious for anyone who's not utterly biased. |
It's obvious to me just as it is obvious for you, and for about any sensible person who has some understanding for Jesus' message.
It's not obvious for the "Christians" who oppose gay marriage on the grounds of Leviticus 20:13, for example*
*I insist that I'm talking about the fundies here, i.e. those who believe the Bible is directly the word of God, and that it should be understood literally. These are the same people who claim that the Churches who officially interpret the Bible are misguided or heretical (such as the Catholic Church, which sees the Bible as a work inspired by God, but written by men and as such not a perfect text). These people do exist, especially among American protestants. I personally have clicked the link of a Jesusbot, which used the very same words as what I'm writing right now.
Regarding gay marriage, I can understand that non-fundy Christians rail against it. The fundies don't have the monopoly of opposition to gay marriage. But the non-fundy Christians don't base their arguments on Leviticus. That's a world of difference.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
lord of the mark
|
 |
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
*I insist that I'm talking about the fundies here, i.e. those who believe the Bible is directly the word of God, and that it should be understood literally. |
Orthodox Jews insist that the Hebrew scripture is directly the word of G-d, yet this does NOT lead the same path of interpretation as Proto fundies. They beleive that EVERY word, every LETTER is holy, and NONE is superflous, there EVERY repetition, every odd usage, every grammatical particle MUST be explained - this hyperliteralism is the basis of midrash, and sometimes leads to interpretations that look NOTHING like a directly literal interpretation (the closest thing to direct literalism is Pshat, which is not QUITE literal, but close to it - there is also allegorical interpretation - AND mystical - the tradition insists all 4 are TRUE at the same time)
Even non-Orthodox Jews, while not holding with this philisophically, use the Midrashic traditions.
This does answer this particular passage (orthodox Jews maintain the illicitness of homosexuality, but they arent generally as obsessed with it as Protestant fundies (Az may report differently from his end of the world) while some Conservative rabbis have developed Midrashic justifications for some more lenient views)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Az
|
 |
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:29
|
|
-in orthodoxy gays are shunned from the community all together, and are considered dead for all matters and purposes. Same with people that leave the fold of religion (Hozrim be'She'ela). I am sure it's similar to the christian fundies.
Islam is more lenient and superior, though, by mandating jail sentences, flogging, or even the death penalty. 
Of course, this is not really Islam, but an evil false interpretation by fundies. In fact, the Qu'ran strictly mandates that gay pride parades be held 3 times a year, gay marriages be accepted, and Sher is the only performer allowed. ( yes, she was alive, even back then )
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Az
|
|
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:29
|
|
quote:
No, thats a complete distortion. The idea of G-ds love for his people is central to the Hebrew scriptures, as is the notion of repentance.
|
Oh, please. You always get god upset with the Israelites like he's surprised, or something, especially, while 'testing' them all the time, and then they fail many of the tests. Well, surprise!
Gotta give the "hebrew" god this: He's much more realistic than the "god loves you, and so does his son (????!)" christian god.
Btw, what's up with "G-d"?
You know, it's amazing how some superstitions, like that if you know the name of someone you've got power over him, still go strong after 8000 years of fire, the plow, the Assault rifle, and the man on the moon. It's a good old remain of pagan beliefs of the ancients, right up there with the big black box in Mecca, and the christmas tree. Same with the little voodoo box on all jewish rooms.
El = God in hebrew = the name of an ancient Canaanite God who's main worship center was the ancient town of Jerusalem. This is well documented in the Torah, ironically, in Beresheet, where Abraham meets the priest (?) of El, and befriends him = more proof that the Hebrews are canaanites, btw.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Wycoff
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
El = God in hebrew = the name of an ancient Canaanite God who's main worship center was the ancient town of Jerusalem. This is well documented in the Torah, ironically, in Beresheet, where Abraham meets the priest (?) of El, and befriends him = more proof that the Hebrews are canaanites, btw. |
Very interesting!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
lord of the mark
|
|
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
quote:
No, thats a complete distortion. The idea of G-ds love for his people is central to the Hebrew scriptures, as is the notion of repentance.
|
Oh, please. You always get god upset with the Israelites like he's surprised, or something, especially, while 'testing' them all the time, and then they fail many of the tests. Well, surprise!
Gotta give the "hebrew" god this: He's much more realistic than the "god loves you, and so does his son (????!)" christian god.
Btw, what's up with "G-d"?
You know, it's amazing how some superstitions, like that if you know the name of someone you've got power over him, still go strong after 8000 years of fire, the plow, the Assault rifle, and the man on the moon. It's a good old remain of pagan beliefs of the ancients, right up there with the big black box in Mecca, and the christmas tree. Same with the little voodoo box on all jewish rooms.
El = God in hebrew = the name of an ancient Canaanite God who's main worship center was the ancient town of Jerusalem. This is well documented in the Torah, ironically, in Beresheet, where Abraham meets the priest (?) of El, and befriends him = more proof that the Hebrews are canaanites, btw. |
Look, I know no lightings gonna strike me for spelling out G-ds name - just like it wouldnt if i ate a crab cake. I try to keep traditions if theres no good reason to change them (IE practical reason, like helping gay people, not to "express" something or other)
As for Jews (essentially) being in origin Canaanites, I fully agree. I think thats the best explanation for the contradictions in the exodus story, as well as various linguistic and archaelogical data.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
chegitz guevara
|
 |
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
El = God in hebrew = the name of an ancient Canaanite God who's main worship center was the ancient town of Jerusalem. This is well documented in the Torah, ironically, in Beresheet, where Abraham meets the priest (?) of El, and befriends him = more proof that the Hebrews are canaanites, btw. |
Actually, El was a Sumerian god. Abrahm came from Sumeria, specifically Ur, if Scripture is to be believed. As for Jews originally being from Canaan, well, who else was Abrahm's family gonna marry?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dr Strangelove
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Bzzzt, wrong. You'll note that Imran and Oerdin were already engaged in the argument. I was merely contributing to that portion of it. And my argument was only that there are scholars who debate the established orthodoxy in this matter. |
Bzzzt, not wrong. On page 4 Oerdin remarked that he thought that all 3 religions are made up, but continued to stick to the subject matter. Imran made a passing allusion to the fact that some people think that Jesus was fictional, then you come on with a 4 page diatribe on why you think that Christ didn't exist.
quote:
Besides, threadjacks happen all the time. Most people can deal with it without whining.
|
Actually I thought that I was chuckling. quote:
I don't need "reminding" of that, as I've never said or felt otherwise, thank you. As I've said--several times--I was not participating in any argument over the merits of Christianity vs. Islam. So your remark was both irrelevant and offensive. |
My remarks were closer to being on topic then yours, so they weren't irrelevant. Since the topic was (broadly) the morality of contemporary Islamic practises then my referrence to the way Islamic law treats one particular minority was within bounds of the discussion and therefore not offensive. If you must take offense take it against those who would execute you for merely being yourself.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29.
Apolyton Time is 00:29. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
04-04-2005 19:15
|