22-04-2005 03:53									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Pax I personally think the rise, spread, start of communism/socialism is mainly due to the basics of Capitalism that don't give a **** about the common man. If Capitalism was left unchecked, the common man in the so-called free countries would be worse off. So you can thank the cold war for your high standard of living. Furthermore, if Capitalism was as superior as advertised you would not have so many FORMER colonies and subjugated countries/peoples would not have switched to it. They did not switch to it from a desire to be EVIL. It was because Capitalism's major flaw and selling point is that it's benefits the owners and rich and screws the workers and consumers as much as possible.

And, what of the lies of communism?

	22-04-2005 16:38									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Pax I personally think the rise, spread, start of communism/socialism is mainly due to the basics of Capitalism that don't give a **** about the common man. If Capitalism was left unchecked, the common man in the so-called free countries would be worse off. So you can thank the cold war for your high standard of living. Furthermore, if Capitalism was as superior as advertised you would not have so many FORMER colonies and subjugated countries/peoples would not have switched to it. They did not switch to it from a desire to be EVIL. It was because Capitalism's major flaw and selling point is that it's benefits the owners and rich and screws the workers and consumers as much as possible.

"Capitalism" isn't a contrived system based on an ideology, it is simply a natural state of affairs given a certain degree of human development, like say Feudalism. It won't necessarily be formed in given population at a given point, but it has developed independently in many places on the globe in many guises and penetration levels. As such it isn't capable of giving a crap about anything any more than Feudalism is capable of caring.

As for thanking the Cold War for reigning in Capitalism, it seems to me that Capitalism was reigned in long before that in the latter part of the 19th century and early parts of the 20th century. Whether this was a reaction to Socialism directly or whether it was a reaction to the same forces that Socialism was a reaction is an open question.

As for "Capitalism's major flaw and selling point" (self-interest), it is in fact humanity's major flaw and strength. Indeed one could say it is lifes organizing principle. It is only natural that it is reflected so prevelently in our economic systems just as it is in our political systems. IMO things work better when they are acknowledged and integrated into the system than when they are denied, which has been the key problem with Marxism in many of its guises.

	22-04-2005 23:04									#183
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Sikander, good post.

Now, tell me, what does the pope mean when he condemns capitalism and globalization? I heard this several times over the last weeks, but got no further explanation by any "talking head."

	22-04-2005 23:08									#184
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither People having themselves shipped out as sea cargo can be understood if only there are enough people? What, is this a rat like syndrome?

Mexico isn't a god foresaken hell hole, and yet Mexicans do the exact same thing to get to the U.S. Only Cubans put themselves at greater risk. BTW, did you know that Haitians flee to Cuba?