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notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 05:41
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So, we'll see. Personally, I don't think Harper and Duceppe can pull the government down. A couple of Tories are too ill to attend the House. Add to that Parish says she'll back the Libs and Kilgour has run off to Africa 'until further notice', and I don't think there are enough opposition votes to kill the government in May.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
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Dec 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse

My hope is that it's fickle separatism that will peter out pretty quickly.


I think it is. A bunch of soft nationalists, pissed at the Libs because of Adscam, who have been given a way to let out some steam.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
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Dec 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 05:51
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
We need to keep piling the immigrants in. They hate separatists.


Why bother. Give up the charade and just pull a 1755 on us...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 07:48 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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"us"?

I'm half Québecois, you know...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 07:49 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Move on about the Plains of Abraham already. It's not like Canada mistreats Quebec nowadays, despite the whinings of a few Albertans...

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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Jun 2002
time: 21:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
"us"?

I'm half Québecois, you know...



And I was born in Montreal.

joncha is offline joncha
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North of FOPOG
Jan 2003
time: 21:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 13:15
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
So, we'll see. Personally, I don't think Harper and Duceppe can pull the government down. A couple of Tories are too ill to attend the House. Add to that Parish says she'll back the Libs and Kilgour has run off to Africa 'until further notice', and I don't think there are enough opposition votes to kill the government in May.


Cadman has also said he will support the government for the time being.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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time: 22:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 12:58
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quote:
Originally posted by joncha


Cadman has also said he will support the government for the time being.


That's new. Last I heard he was in line to bury Martin's govt., ASAP.

If that is so, count the summer election project as deader than the Socreds.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 13:00
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Move on about the Plains of Abraham already. It's not like Canada mistreats Quebec nowadays, despite the whinings of a few Albertans...


As the Albertan you are speaking of...

Canada mistreats any and all who are opposed to the Liberals if they are returned to power under these circumstances.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 13:03 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither


As the Albertan you are speaking of...

Canada mistreats any and all who are opposed to the Liberals if they are returned to power under these circumstances.


Actually, I meant asher...

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 13:16
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Why, when has Asher *****ed about Quebec getting the shaft?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 13:21 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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I meant that if Asher had his way Quebec would get the shaft. Sorry if I didn't make that clear...

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 13:25
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Oh, well I read the opposite.

It'll still be pretty ****ed up if the Liberals form the next government.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 13:26
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Tories and NDP having a workable majority woule be funnier than hell.

joncha is offline joncha
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 13:48
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From the CBC

Cadman the man in the middle
Last updated Apr 28 2005 02:31 PM PDT
CBC News

quote:
VANCOUVER – In a major switch, Independent Surrey-North MP Chuck Cadman says he's now considering voting to support Prime Minister Paul Martin's minority government in a non-confidence vote next month.

Cadman is one of three Independent MPs in the House of Commons, and his vote could keep the Liberal government in power.

The Liberals have 131 MPs and the Speaker, who votes to break ties. With the support of the 19 New Democrats, the Liberals would have 150 votes in the 308-seat House of Commons.

With the support of the three Independents, the Liberal government would have 153 votes.

The Conservatives and Bloc Quebecois have a total of 153 votes, but two Conservative MPs who are battling cancer may not be able to show up for the vote.

On Monday, Cadman had said he was planning to vote against the Liberals and force an election – saying that was what his constituents wanted him to do.

But he says since then he's received about 80 e-mails and phone calls from constituents who don't want a snap election, calling on Cadman to vote with the government.

"That certainly has to be the way that I'm considering leaning. I will have to consider my own views at some point, but that becomes secondary to the constituents," he says.

"And if I feel there's a good representation and a good consensus of constituents that want me to vote a certain way then I'm obligated to do that."

There have been reports that Prime Minister Martin is planning to talk with Cadman to try to convince him to support the Liberal government. But the Surrey MP says he hasn't heard from the PM.

He also says his constituents' opinions will hold more weight than anything that Martin might have to say.

"I don't like the idea of making deals. It's not my style. And it's not a matter of what it's going to take to convince me. Again I have to go back to what I'm hearing from people here in Surrey-North. That's basically what matters."

Cadman says he will continue to monitor e-mails and calls from his constituents up until the non-confidence vote is taken on May 18.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 14:10
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It's closer than I thought, going by that bit.

Libs plus NDP plus Parish make 151.

The Tories and Bloc less two terminally ill Tories make 151.

Kilgour is out of the country and won't be back soon, or so I have heard. That will leave the Cadman to decide the fate of Mr. Martin's govt.

The problem with leaving Mr. Martin in til Dec is he will have til then to bribe as many votes as he can. That might be filed under business as usual, but what did I hear, something like 78 spending announcements in the last week?

What is worse is that the party that has it's hands caught well and truely glued in the cookie jar are sitting in power at the head of the RCMP, CCRA, and the decisions of who to prosecute in the courts.

Tell me how you delouse when the lice are running the asylum.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 14:38
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What does a Liberal mean by responsiblility? Do they mean 'I did it, I admit it, now you have to let me off without penalty because I said I was responsible'?

quote:
Chretien repeats apology for sponsorship mistakes
CTV.ca News Staff

Former prime minister Jean Chretien apologized Friday night for mistakes that were made during the sponsorship program, and said he takes full responsibility.

Chretien, in Philadelphia to collect an award for supporting same-sex marriage when he was prime minister, made his first public statement on the sponsorship scandal since his February testimony at the Gomery commission.

Chretien refused to share his thoughts on how beleaguered Prime Minister Paul Martin is handling the firestorm caused by the scandal. But he did say he still supports the Liberal party.

"I am a Liberal and if there's an election, I will vote Liberal with pleasure,'' he told reporters.

Chretien has made few public appearances since his testimony before Judge Gomery. He has denied knowledge of any misspending under the sponsorship program, in which $100 million in federal advertising funds were allegedly funneled to Liberal party supporters for little or no work.

The former prime minister reminded reporters that he already apologized for the mistakes at his appearance before the Gomery inquiry.

"Did you read my statement?" he asked angrily. "In my statement, I said I was sorry if mistakes were made, and I said I have to take the full responsibility of what's good and what's bad when you're the prime minister.''

He said the program was good for the country, and that those who abused it deserve to be punished.

"These people betrayed the nation, betrayed the government and myself."

Chretien then reminded reporters that he notified police in March, 2002, upon discovering what was happening with the program, adding that "the first case was in front of the court before I left, and even before . . . the auditor general's report.''

Advertising executive Paul Coffin, who testified at the inquiry this week, was the first to be charged in the affair.

In spite of his assertion for the need to punish those responsible, Chretien is appealing to the Federal Court to remove Justice Gomery as head of the inquiry.

Chretien has alleged that Gomery is biased and unable to deliver an impartial evaluation of the his role in the sponsorship affair.

Chretien's challenge is expected to be heard in Federal Court on June 7. If his action is successful, it could delay or block Gomery's commission report, due out at the end of the year.

Martin has said he will fight to keep Gomery as head of the commission.

With files from The Canadian Press


Well, if Mr Chretien is so responsible, perhaps we can expect the RCMP to be knocking on his door someday soon.

Seeker is offline Seeker
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London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 23:08 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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Well from what I've been seeing on TV there does seem to be a lot of talk about spend spend spend, 'opening the pursestrings', 'no better opportunity for funding' etc from tonnes of groups.

It's sad, but if the gov'mt doesn't fall Martin WILL be able to buy the Canada off. So much for the party of fiscal restraint.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Jul 2005
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  Old Post 01-05-2005 01:29 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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I am pretty sure there'll be a summer election. The NDP support deal does not extend beyond the budget (especially now that Martin has reneged on half of it).

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
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Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 01-05-2005 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse

I'm half Québecois, you know...


That's a strange statement. I thought you were from Montreal.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
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Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 01-05-2005 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Move on about the Plains of Abraham already. It's not like Canada mistreats Quebec nowadays, despite the whinings of a few Albertans...


Who said anything about that?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 01-05-2005 05:56 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu


That's a strange statement. I thought you were from Montreal.


Actually, my great-grandparents moved down to Montreal. Before that they were around Lac Saint-Jean...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 01-05-2005 05:57 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu


Who said anything about that?


The Louisianans can be pissed about 1755. Everybody else got to stay right where they were.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 03-05-2005 01:09
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quote:

Tories and NDP having a workable majority woule be funnier than hell.


Indeed. Wonder how much Layton would be selling his support?

St Leo is offline St Leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I was talking more about publication bans, which the American press hasn't been muzzled by since the '70's.


Yes, but you hold your congressional inquiries behind closed doors with not press attendance at all.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Indeed. Wonder how much Layton would be selling his support?


Conservatives could offer NDP Proportional Representation, but I can't imagine what NDP would be willing to support in return. Perhaps something silly and pointless like an elected senate.

A formal coalition is right out. There is no way the NDP would ever vote for any Harper budget.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 03-05-2005 11:08
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Harper and Layton (and the rest) should stop throwing things at each other.

The Liberals have to be ousted. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to see what happens if a majority of seats in Ontario go to the Libs and they manage to hang on to government somehow. It could get really ugly really fast, and not just in Quebec.

The truth is that without Bloc Quebec in the government equation (they don't want it even if ROC got over it and recognised that they are the legitimate representatives of their ridings) Parliament is hamstrung.

Harper and Layton better grow up real fast and realise that there are bigger things at stake here than the flavour of the next budget, or who gets to marry who.

embalmer42 is offline embalmer42
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  Old Post 03-05-2005 18:56
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Canadians (and Ontario has to shoulder a large part of the blame) have shown they are quite willing to put up with Liberal corruption in the past because they have bought into the Liberal scare mongering hook, line and sinker and I see nothing to suggest that things will change any time soon.

NYE - by "things getting ugly real fast" are you talking seperation (either Quebec and/or Western Canada) if the Liberals are re-elected (with either a minority or majority)? And if so, do you think most Canadians realize the stakes are that high?

St Leo is offline St Leo
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
The Liberals have to be ousted.


How? If we oust them now, they'll just get back in next spring when Harper's government collapses.

Which actually would be very good for the NDP because both the Liberals and Conservatives will be discredited. So, I think that Harper will get his motion of no confidence through and a summer election to celebrate it.

quote:
I'm pretty sure nobody wants to see what happens if a majority of seats in Ontario go to the Libs and they manage to hang on to government somehow. It could get really ugly really fast, and not just in Quebec.


If the Conservatives want to rename themselves to Bloc Alberta, they are welcome to it.

quote:
The truth is that without Bloc Quebec in the government equation (they don't want it even if ROC got over it and recognised that they are the legitimate representatives of their ridings) Parliament is hamstrung.


FYI: ROC = Rest of Canada

quote:
Harper and Layton better grow up real fast and realise that there are bigger things at stake here than the flavour of the next budget, or who gets to marry who.


Not really. The law is catching up to those who have broken it. The Gomery Inquiry seems to be working.

As for bigger things, Harper wants to dismantle Canada by devolving powers to the provinces and to hobble the federal government by instituting an elected Senate. The Liberals would have to steal very hard to top that when it comes to damaging the country.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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quote:
Originally posted by embalmer42
Canadians (and Ontario has to shoulder a large part of the blame) have shown they are quite willing to put up with Liberal corruption in the past because they have bought into the Liberal scare mongering hook, line and sinker and I see nothing to suggest that things will change any time soon.

NYE - by "things getting ugly real fast" are you talking seperation (either Quebec and/or Western Canada) if the Liberals are re-elected (with either a minority or majority)? And if so, do you think most Canadians realize the stakes are that high?


There's a lot of grumbling going on. A lot of people were very upset about how the last campaign took a turn into Alberta bashing over health care, and the campaign before that where a party leader was lampooned for being a church goer from Alberta, and etc...

This 'campaign' already has a fair dose of 'evil Alberta' and it hasn't even been launched yet.

Add to that the damage to the credibility of federalism that would be dealt by returning the thieves to power when the theft has been laid bare, and I don't know what would happen. However, I doubt the public discourse would be pretty. I'd be a lot more worried about Quebec, but some of the likely suspects are already mentioning seperatism in Alberta should the Libs get back in under these circumstances.

Do people in Ontario and the Maritimes realise it? I doubt it. Quebec has been at it for a generation. People tire of fearing the wolf and begin to ignore warnings that come to naught. It would be a dangerous combination if people discounted the possibility and then gift wrapped a discredited federal system to seperatists.

 
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