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Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 07:43
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quote:
Not so soon, comrade.

Do you think the 4 billion for social programs is to be spent in the next fiscal year? Harr, harr, oh ye of little experience with Canadian federal politics...


You think I care about that crap. It's pissing in the wind.

I couldn't care less about what the NDP gets as long as Harper is kept out. And didn't he spit the dummy today.

By the end of the year when the enquiry absolves the present government of wrongdoing, the Liberals will sweep back into power, and life will get back to normal.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 07:51
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I'm not sure how this is all going to play out.

Layton may score points for trying to keep things going, or he may lose them by getting himself tangled up in trying to preserve a government that more and more Canadians come to detest with every passing day of testimony before Gomery.

The Conservatives may get caned in Ontario for forcing the fall of the government when they move non-confidence next week, or they may be selected as the only possible option left as more and more people come to detest the Liberal Party of Canada with every passing day of testimony before Gomery.

Either way, suggesting that the Liberals are anywhere close to back to normal within six months should take serious quantities of substances that divorce the mind from reality.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 07:54
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quote:
Either way, suggesting that the Liberals are anywhere close to back to normal within six months should take serious quantities of substances that divorce the mind from reality.


Martin is right. Everyone should wait for the enquiry to finish. Then people can have their say.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 07:55
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And damn. Federalism seems to be becoming a casualty in Quebec.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/nati...poll050427.html
quote:
Poll finds sovereignty support rising in Quebec
Last Updated Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:40:52 EDT
CBC News

MONTREAL - A new poll shows support for sovereignty among Quebecers has surpassed 50 per cent, the highest level in the province in seven years.

But the leader of the Bloc Québécois said he is not taking anything for granted.

"It is our duty to convince Quebecers on a daily basis that the best people to defend their interests in Ottawa are members of the Bloc Québécois and that the best solution for the future of Quebec is for Quebec to be a country in its own right," Gilles Duceppe told reporters in Montreal on Wednesday.

"But polls will not give us that," he added.

The poll conducted by Léger Marketing for the Globe and Mail and Le Devoir newspapers showed 54 per cent of decided respondents supported sovereignty if it included an economic and political partnership with Canada.

That's the same question asked during the Oct. 30, 1995 referendum that saw Quebecers reject sovereignty by a slim margin – 50.6 per cent to 49.4 per cent.

However, it appears the rise in support for sovereignty is a reflection of anger towards the Liberals, the Globe and Mail said.

Roughly 37 per cent of people who answered said the government's role in the sponsorship scandal contributed to their decision to support sovereignty.

An inquiry by Justice John Gomery is looking into allegations that the government of former prime minister Jean Chrétien funnelled millions of public dollars to Liberal-friendly ad firms to raise Ottawa's profile in Quebec following the 1995 referendum.

"We are not responsible for the Liberals' lack of morality or the lack of strength of the Conservatives," Duceppe said. "Quebecers will make their own choice and we will respect their choice. We will not impose anything on Canadians and Canada has no reason to impose anything on Quebecers."

According to the survey published Wednesday, 76 per cent of people felt betrayed by the actions of the federal Liberals and Chrétien in the wake of the close referendum.

The latest polls suggest support for sovereignty is at its highest in the province since 1998. Similarly worded polls over the past year have gauged support for separation from 44 to 49 per cent.

When asked if voting for sovereignty meant they still wanted Quebec to be part of Canada, 56 per cent said yes. Forty per cent said no, while four per cent didn't reply.

Almost half of respondents – 49 per cent – said they believe Quebec will someday be a sovereign country, while the same amount support holding another referendum.

Léger polled 1,008 voters between April 21 and 24. The results are considered accurate within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.


Freekin' Tories better get their act together in Quebec, pronto.

I've heard some rumblings about high profile people joining the Tories. Is that true?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 07:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
quote:
Either way, suggesting that the Liberals are anywhere close to back to normal within six months should take serious quantities of substances that divorce the mind from reality.


Martin is right. Everyone should wait for the enquiry to finish. Then people can have their say.


Pfft. This is a parliamentary democracy.

The people will decide when they need to have a say.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 09:16 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
And damn. Federalism seems to be becoming a casualty in Quebec.


Yeah. I've been nervous about this for a while.

My hope is that it's fickle separatism that will peter out pretty quickly.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 09:50
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quote:
Pfft. This is a parliamentary democracy.

The people will decide when they need to have a say.


What kind of crap-ass school did you go to? Parliament gets to say if there will be an early election, not schmucks like you, KH or Ben.

JimmyCracksCorn is offline JimmyCracksCorn
Settler
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 09:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
quote:
Pfft. This is a parliamentary democracy.

The people will decide when they need to have a say.


What kind of crap-ass school did you go to? Parliament gets to say if there will be an early election, not schmucks like you, KH or Ben.


But elections are FUN!

If owned my own country we'd have elections every year.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 28-04-2005 10:59 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Got spare money?

It seems like we might just get your wish, Jimmy.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
quote:
Pfft. This is a parliamentary democracy.

The people will decide when they need to have a say.


What kind of crap-ass school did you go to? Parliament gets to say if there will be an early election, not schmucks like you, KH or Ben.


Yeah, but it sounded good when I said it...

Seriously though, if the constituents of the Bloc and Tories were not screaming for an election, there would be none.

Public opinion does have a very large place in the deciding of these things.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:29
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Yeah. I've been nervous about this for a while.

My hope is that it's fickle separatism that will peter out pretty quickly.


Hopefully they will vent their spleen during a handy invention known as an election.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:31 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Federal, please. When they elect a PQ government I have to vote in another referendum...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:32 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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We need to keep piling the immigrants in. They hate separatists.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:33
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No doubt. I don't think we want this fury carried into a provincial election *** referendum.

I understand many people wanting Parliament to sit and get business done. I would prefer that.

However, I also think that other people should recognise the outrage that has been caused across the country and in some places more than others.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:37 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Parliament does have some pressing business to get on with. It's not likely that another election will bring about any majority, and a Conservative minority can only be less stable than the current arrangement, so we'll be seeing little real progress in the next little while.

The country's not all that ideologically fragmented, so there's no excuse for the current situation. The Liberals are to blame for being corrupt ****wits, and the Conservatives are to blame for being incompetent ****wits.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:41
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Central Canadians shouldn't blame themselves for their prejudices though. No, that would be bad.

Abandoning the Tories and writing them off as a bunch of Western fundies sure seems like a wise idea. Especially now that the choices are rendered so bleak.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:42 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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I'm not blaming Western Canadians, Eastern Canadians or any other part of the voting population. The failure is in the political leadership.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:50
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I am pointing out that federalist Quebec and urban Ontario abandoned the only alternative to the Liberals and left it in the ditch as something to snicker about.

Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:54 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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They abandoned them because Mulroney sucked. If we're playing the blame game, put some on Western Canadians who, instead of trying to rebuild the Tories as their former centre-right selves, split off and formed an unelectable party. We're still seeing the effects of that.

There is some lack of responsibility from the voting public, but there is a large dose of opportunism from the leaders of the former CA and of course the Liberals.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 11:58
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The present is where we are, and it is a present where the Liberals can't be re-elected and the country survive, and the Tories are not seen as an alternative by many, many people in Ontario and Quebec, because people in those places gave up on the party a long time ago, no matter what.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 28-04-2005 12:00 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Give it some time, nye.

We might begin to see policy-based elections again some time in the next decade.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 28-04-2005 12:02
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Actually, the whole country is to blame. Even Conservatives were buying into the pack of lies and slander that Stevie Cameron was dishing out. She even had the RCMP getting the country on the hook for several millions in damages for unfounded accusations.

That election, and those two seats lead us directly to the here and now via Liberal arrogance when there was no longer anyone to challenge them.

JimmyCracksCorn is offline JimmyCracksCorn
Settler
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 29-04-2005 07:00
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
It seems like we might just get your wish, Jimmy.



Hell yeah.

I'm actually looking to see if the parliamentary session which has the vote of confidence (or no confidence) is open to the public. If so, a couple of my friends and I will be up in the stands having a grand old time. I'd take pictures if they allowed cameras in.

Not sure if it will be though... I know question and answer periods are open to the public, but somehow I doubt this will be. I can hope though.

embalmer42 is offline embalmer42
Warlord
The Great State Of Insanity
Jan 2000
time: 05:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 02:51
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It would be interesting to look back on this thread after the election (whenever it is) and compare what some people thought would happen to what actually happens.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 02:54 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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According to two recent polls, things look better for the liberals than previously thought:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/nati...olls050429.html

The Cons and Libs are in a statistical tie (with a slight edge for the Grits) and sovereignty support is not quite as high as previously measured.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 02:58 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
I'm not sure how this is all going to play out.

Layton may score points for trying to keep things going, or he may lose them by getting himself tangled up in trying to preserve a government that more and more Canadians come to detest with every passing day of testimony before Gomery.


Over 3/5 of canadians want an election to be delayed to the end of the year according to the most recent polls.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
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Oct 2002
time: 21:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 03:06
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quote:

Over 3/5 of canadians want an election to be delayed to the end of the year according to the most recent polls.


And what percentage of that plans to vote?

If we say 50% of the people polled do not plan to vote, than that means 4/5 of likely voters want an election.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 03:08 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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What the **** are you talking about?

That assumes that everybody who wants an election now will vote.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 30-04-2005 03:09 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Ben, please refrain from attempting statistical analyses. You just embarrass yourself.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:33
  Old Post 30-04-2005 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Over 3/5 of canadians want an election to be delayed to the end of the year according to the most recent polls.


Problem with that is that Conservative supporters are screaming for one now. I'm not sure of what Bloc supporters want, but I would be surprised if they don't want an election.

How do those numbers come out in Quebec?

 
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