05-05-2005 03:42									#421
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Just because I'm right all the time shouldn't make me hateable .

(PS. I was backing PSV)

	05-05-2005 08:59									#422
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I had £20 on PSV to win tonights game (£52 return) let the good times roll

	05-05-2005 14:01									#424
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Nice try PSV. They were quite impressive, a pity they didn't make it.

C'mooon you REDS!!!!

	05-05-2005 15:48									#425
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Liverpool

	06-05-2005 07:20									#426
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My lord... anyone see the AZ v. Sporting game today? Sporting won 2-1 at Portugal, and today was the second leg. AZ were up 2-1 at the end of full time, so they went to extra time. In the second period of extra time, with the rain pouring down, AZ scored from a corner. But then... in the final seconds of stoppage time in the 2nd period of extra time, Sporting scores from a corner!

That made it 3-3 on aggregate, but Sporting had 2 away goals to AZ's 1 and Sporting went on.

One of the best games I've seen!

	06-05-2005 07:27									#427
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UEFA what? Premiership who?

I'm in the CL zone for the next 3 weeks, any other form of competition just don't exist!

	06-05-2005 07:51									#428
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Speaking of which, if Liverpool doesn't make into in the Top 4 of the EPL, they don't get to come back to the CL (doesn't matter if they win or lose).

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headli...=332607&cc=5901
(FA says only the the top 4 will make it. If Liverpool wins and finishes 5th, they are out of luck for next year.)

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headli...=332563&cc=5901
(UEFA says it won't give England 5 spots if Liverpool win.)

	06-05-2005 07:59									#429
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I'll take winning the champions league and finishing 5th. Its in the history book. So you've won it 5 times.

We could end up runners up in the CL, get fourth and not win it next year. Nothing in the history book!

"A bird in the hand...."

I still think UEFA will cave in though.....

	06-05-2005 08:04									#430
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever I still think UEFA will cave in though.....

Ah, the deluded fan.

Give it up... they won't do it... no way, no how.

	06-05-2005 08:51									#431
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What the ****? The holders dont get in? More UEFA bullshit, they dont know how to run football. Next theyll be telling us we have to use multI-ball.

	06-05-2005 08:58									#432
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If the holders can't finish in the top 4, they don't deserve to get in. Why should they get an automatic pass? Earn it with your performance in your league!

	06-05-2005 09:03									#433
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Havent they earned it if they win the tournament? Do the holders of the World Cup/Euro Champs still get in free too? I dont think they do anymore, that be bullshit too!

	06-05-2005 09:15									#434
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Havent they earned it if they win the tournament? Do the holders of the World Cup/Euro Champs still get in free too? I dont think they do anymore, that be bullshit too!

Nope. The winners of the World Cup don't get in free anymore. And they shouldn't, neither should the CL winner. If you win the tournament, all that you've earned is the CL championship, not a chance to win it again the next year.

In US sports, at least, if you win the championship one year, you don't automatically get to the playoffs the next. You have to earn your spot every year, within the league structure.

	06-05-2005 09:22									#435
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The winners of the World Cup don't get in free anymore.

IIRC, the winner goes straight to the finals week.

	06-05-2005 09:23									#436
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger IIRC, the winner goes straight to the finals week.

Not anymore.

	06-05-2005 09:25									#437
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http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/o/faq.html

quote: Just as at France 98 and Korea/Japan in 2002, 32 teams will take part in Germany 2006. Germany qualify automatically as hosts, but the holders (Brazil) now have to qualify in the normal way.

	06-05-2005 09:44									#438
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Nope. The winners of the World Cup don't get in free anymore. And they shouldn't, neither should the CL winner. If you win the tournament, all that you've earned is the CL championship, not a chance to win it again the next year. In US sports, at least, if you win the championship one year, you don't automatically get to the playoffs the next. You have to earn your spot every year, within the league structure.

Just because thats the way it is in US sports doesnt mean its right

Its not just about winning the tournament, its about winning the right to be there next year, plus I want to see the best teams, the biggest matches, I want to see the holders, not some sh1tpot team in their place for diversitys sake.

	06-05-2005 10:00									#439
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I reckon it is the better arrangement from the commercial PoV. More matches - more income.

	06-05-2005 10:06									#440
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Even when Brazil didnt have to qualify they played plenty of friendlies in International weeks, if only to get the squad together. Of course US teams dont play friendlies in the middle of a season, so the commercial PoV makes perfect sense. Not necessarily right, money comes first.

	06-05-2005 12:17									#441
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Just because thats the way it is in US sports doesnt mean its right Its not just about winning the tournament, its about winning the right to be there next year, plus I want to see the best teams, the biggest matches, I want to see the holders, not some sh1tpot team in their place for diversitys sake.

No, it's not about winning the right to be there next year. It's about winning the trophy. If you want to be there next year, you get in the top 4, that simple. If you can't make the top 4, then you don't deserve to defend your title. That simple.

	06-05-2005 14:04									#442
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AZ

They really deserved to go to the final!!

Dammit, another crap country goes through.

	06-05-2005 15:13									#443
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quote: Originally posted by alva Dammit, another crap country goes through.

It's a bit hard for a "crap" country to sneak through a round robin match scheme. OTOH, eliminations are different.

	06-05-2005 22:41									#444
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It's a bit hard for a "crap" country to sneak through a round robin match scheme. OTOH, eliminations are different.

Indeed... and it is a 'European' Cup. We want all of Europe to participate, and engaging in such a competition may make those 'crap' countries that much better with all the experience on the continent.

	06-05-2005 22:56									#445
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora What the ****? The holders dont get in? More UEFA bullshit, they dont know how to run football. Next theyll be telling us we have to use multI-ball.

FA bullshit, not UEFA bullshit. The UEFA would like to have Liverpool in as well but it's an FA decision to make. But the UEFA can't just abandon it's own rules. If they do, I demand AZ gets a rematch against Sporting as well: they only went out on away goals scored in extra time, I don't think that's a fair rule either: Sporting got 30 minutes more than AZ in which their away goals counted double. Away goals in extra time IMO should never be counted double...

Everyone, including the FA, Liverpool and Everton (and AZ for that matter) knew the rules at the start of the season. If they didn't like it, they shouldn't have accepted them then. It's not like this situation with Liverpool never happened before so that the teams might not have realised that this was a possibility: it happened just a few years ago. It's too damn late to start whining now...

But as far as changing the rules goes (either for now or the future), I don't think that the number 5 of ANY European competition should be allowed in the Champions League. It's called the Champions League after all. If you're not in the top four of your domestic league, you can't possibly be regarded a champion (heck, I don't think the numbers 3 and 4 deserve to be in either, I strongly prefer the old system when only national league winners were allowed). Even if you do win the CL, because crap teams win elimination tournaments all the time. Look at Euro 2004. Hell, the UEFA Cup featured a 2rd division German team this year because they had won the national cup -- and that wasn't a first either. Millwall was in the FA Cup final last year too...

	06-05-2005 23:40									#446
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quote: they only went out on away goals scored in extra time, I don't think that's a fair rule either: Sporting got 30 minutes more than AZ in which their away goals counted double.

AZ also got 30 minutes more in its home stadium
[/nitpick]

quote: But as far as changing the rules goes (either for now or the future), I don't think that the number 5 of ANY European competition should be allowed in the Champions League. It's called the Champions League after all. If you're not in the top four of your domestic league, you can't possibly be regarded a champion (heck, I don't think the numbers 3 and 4 deserve to be in either, I strongly prefer the old system when only national league winners were allowed). Even if you do win the CL, because crap teams win elimination tournaments all the time. Look at Euro 2004. Hell, the UEFA Cup featured a 2rd division German team this year because they had won the national cup -- and that wasn't a first either. Millwall was in the FA Cup final last year too...

Total agreement with everything in that last paragraph.

	06-05-2005 23:54									#447
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus FA bullshit, not UEFA bullshit. The UEFA would like to have Liverpool in as well but it's an FA decision to make. But the UEFA can't just abandon it's own rules. If they do, I demand AZ gets a rematch against Sporting as well: they only went out on away goals scored in extra time, I don't think that's a fair rule either: Sporting got 30 minutes more than AZ in which their away goals counted double. Away goals in extra time IMO should never be counted double... Everyone, including the FA, Liverpool and Everton (and AZ for that matter) knew the rules at the start of the season. If they didn't like it, they shouldn't have accepted them then. It's not like this situation with Liverpool never happened before so that the teams might not have realised that this was a possibility: it happened just a few years ago. It's too damn late to start whining now...

So why were you just whining about AZ?

quote: But as far as changing the rules goes (either for now or the future), I don't think that the number 5 of ANY European competition should be allowed in the Champions League. It's called the Champions League after all. If you're not in the top four of your domestic league, you can't possibly be regarded a champion (heck, I don't think the numbers 3 and 4 deserve to be in either, I strongly prefer the old system when only national league winners were allowed). Even if you do win the CL, because crap teams win elimination tournaments all the time. Look at Euro 2004. Hell, the UEFA Cup featured a 2rd division German team this year because they had won the national cup -- and that wasn't a first either. Millwall was in the FA Cup final last year too...

Id prefer only the Champions of each league in the CL too, but thats not many matches, which means its not gonna happen in the near future.

On the other hand why make it easier for crap teams to win a major European competition?

	07-05-2005 00:00									#448
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quote: On the other hand why make it easier for crap teams to win a major European competition?

Raise your hand, anyone, that expected Liverpool to even get this far in the CL?

Btw, its a European Champions League, that implies that more than a few European countries are involved. Like the World Cup demands teams from every part of the world. If you just want the English, French, Spanish, Italian, and German League, why don't you make you own and call it the "**** You Cup"?

	07-05-2005 00:22									#449
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: On the other hand why make it easier for crap teams to win a major European competition? Raise your hand, anyone, that expected Liverpool to even get this far in the CL? Btw, its a European Champions League, that implies that more than a few European countries are involved. Like the World Cup demands teams from every part of the world. If you just want the English, French, Spanish, Italian, and German League, why don't you make you own and call it the "**** You Cup"?

It also says "Champions" and "League", but neither of those are completely true either.

But my point was doubt over making it a purely knockout tournament again, since this is a lot less likely to out the best team.

	07-05-2005 00:31									#450
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Do you actually think that Liverpool is one of the two best teams in Europe this year? They played well in the tourney, but Chelsea finished 30+ points above them in the Premiership!

If you want the best, just take the Champions and have 'em face off. You can't compare Champions from one country to those of another unless they play against each other, but you can compare teams in the same league, because they play the same competition, as well as against each other.