07-04-2005 19:35									#32
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hmmmm

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	07-04-2005 20:22									#33
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i guess if you like sci-fi, then either are good examples of the genre.
I'll go with StarWars>StarTrek, if you take out Episode1 and onwards from the equation. If you include it it's about evens.

StarTrek, in all its forms, i find more fun to watch then the endless soap opera's and reality tv shows.

StarWars in the origonal first trilogy, blew me away as a kid and i still find it fun to watch

All good stuff for our imaginations imho

	07-04-2005 20:24									#34
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor StarWars in the origonal first trilogy, blew me away as a kid and i still find it fun to watch

It features a princess with what appear to be cinnamon danish pastries stuck to her head.

Not very inspiring if she falls asleep at the breakfast table....

	07-04-2005 20:38									#35
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Star Wars is for everyone (so far), which is good. Star Trek is for not quite everyone. Enterprise is very questionable, DS9 and Voyager still questionable, but less so.

There are those who say no onscreen SF is good SF. There are novels.

Why Miss Bloom, if I didn't know better, I'd wonder if you're racist against Austrians...

	07-04-2005 20:54									#36
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Molly Bloom is a dude

and Enterprise was better tha DS9 and Voyager (but still not good enough to get me to watch)

JM

	07-04-2005 20:57									#37
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Actually I had gathered that.

	07-04-2005 20:59									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Brent Why Miss Bloom, if I didn't know better, I'd wonder if you're racist against Austrians...

Uhhh.... 'Danish' pastries, an American actress portraying a woman born on another planet in the future and you arrive at Austrians ?


Beam him up, Scotty.

	07-04-2005 21:01									#39
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It's a traditional Austrian hairdo.

	07-04-2005 21:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Brent It's a traditional Austrian hairdo.

Wearing cinnamon whirls ?


No wonder they were on the losing side in WWI .

	07-04-2005 21:41									#41
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Star Wars is NOT Science Fiction, it is a mythical story using robots and spaceships instead of the basic fantasy fare.

Star Trek began as Science Fiction, the main point of which is to explore basic ideas or controversies by introducing various hypotheticals- lets not forget the first ever interracial kiss on TV was on Star Trek.

Currently, Star Trek is very fluff sci fi, if anything thanks to the popularity of non-sci-fi fluff like SW.

	07-04-2005 21:43									#42
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertai...ilm/4419365.stm

I like StarWars.....but this is a little crazy? Ok if it had been 20 years ago i'd understand it more. But on the off chance that this last of the new trilogy will be a good film? Its recent pedigree isn't good

	07-04-2005 21:50									#43
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fictional robots and fictional spaceships are science fiction. Science Fiction is fictional science, not always scientific fiction. Star Wars is best labelled as space opera, but it is not incoorect to call it science fiction. The Force is fictional theological science. The politics of star wars are fictional political science. Just because they don't try to explain things scientifically, or just because they try not to, does not mean that aliens and alien worlds d o not make it science fiction. Star Wars is in some ways more scientifically sound than Star Trek.

	07-04-2005 21:52									#44
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How geek is this thread....


LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT!

Who's Stronger, Captain Kirk or Captain Picard!?!

Spec.

	07-04-2005 21:58									#45
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B5 and (potentially) BSG blow both of them away...

	07-04-2005 21:59									#46
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B5 sucked

JM

	07-04-2005 22:05									#47
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the force went poof in episode one! OMG ITS MICROBES!!!

	07-04-2005 22:05									#48
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Never gave B5 much of a chance. Too much time already devoted to Wars and Trek. Not really interested in trying the new BSG. Stargate's good though, and I may watch some DrWho in the future.

	07-04-2005 22:07									#49
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So what if it's microbes?

	07-04-2005 22:14									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Brent Never gave B5 much of a chance. Too much time already devoted to Wars and Trek. Not really interested in trying the new BSG. Stargate's good though, and I may watch some DrWho in the future.

Too much time devoted? I don't know if thats scary or sad. You should probably consider branching out since both of your shows are ending. I've enjoyed both to varying degrees over the years but they are not the be all and end off of SCI fi.

	07-04-2005 22:15									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Brent So what if it's microbes?

It killed the mystic of the force and apparently Lucus has forgotton all about it because it hasnt been mentioned since.

	07-04-2005 22:16									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Brent So what if it's microbes?

It completely ruined the mystique and mysticism of it. some things are better left ot the imagination.

	07-04-2005 22:17									#53
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Now I'll be happy when all the jedi are slaughter since apparently Palptine is simply engaging in a bit of disease prevention in killing all of the Jedi

	07-04-2005 23:04									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Brent fictional robots and fictional spaceships are science fiction. Science Fiction is fictional science, not always scientific fiction. Star Wars is best labelled as space opera, but it is not incoorect to call it science fiction. The Force is fictional theological science. The politics of star wars are fictional political science. Just because they don't try to explain things scientifically, or just because they try not to, does not mean that aliens and alien worlds d o not make it science fiction. Star Wars is in some ways more scientifically sound than Star Trek.

Having robots does not make you science fiction- you could theoretically have magical robots- the Science in Science Fiction does mean something, and its not just using the tools of science- after all, that would make any modern war story science fiction, since tanks and planes are objects of science.

There is also no such things as "fictional pol sci"- monarchies and oligarchies and republics are old hat, Star Wars did not invent of imagine anything new in the realm of politics- the only "pol sci ci" I can think of are Utopia by More, Res Publica by Plato.

The basis of science fiction is to explore our society by using theoreticals to speculate- hence 1984 is classic sci fi, ditto the foundation series that postulated a science of history and how that might play out, or the robot series that thought what if we made automatons and how would we live with them.

In terms of being "scientifically sound", neither SW nor ST has much claim to that period, but in the end its not even necessary- you can have sci fi with the smallest shred of plausible science and still work-but the point of the story has to be daring or trying to explore something by suing the theoretical.

Just having robots does not make you sci fi, anymore than just having wizards makes you fantasy, which is why I think the works of Terry Pratchett are sorely miscategorized, since they are clearly satire and NOT fantasy.

So, again, SW is not sci fi at all, while ST began as sci fi but has strayed.

	07-04-2005 23:06									#55
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you hacen't read that much sci fi have you?

JM

	07-04-2005 23:14									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller you hacen't read that much sci fi have you? JM

I have read loads of it, I have many many dozens of paperbacks. It is because I have read so much, and thankfully a lot of GOOD sci fi that I can say that SW is NOT sci fi. For good sci fi look at Asimov, Lem, Clarck, Brin, heck, even Chriton's earlier works are very good sci fi.

	07-04-2005 23:18									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: Originally posted by Space05us Star Wars > Star Trek

	08-04-2005 00:04									#58
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I have read loads of it, I have many many dozens of paperbacks. It is because I have read so much, and thankfully a lot of GOOD sci fi that I can say that SW is NOT sci fi. For good sci fi look at Asimov, Lem, Clarck, Brin, heck, even Chriton's earlier works are very good sci fi.

'I was not arguing that Starwars was good sci fi

I was arguing that there is lots of sci fi that is poly sci sci fi

Jon Miller

	08-04-2005 00:06									#59
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quote: there is lots of sci fi that is poly sci sci fi

What?!

	08-04-2005 00:11									#60
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I like Star Wars a bit better, because of the lesser level of technobabble (let's forget those midichlorians, Lucas has).

Star Trek seems to get more burdened by technobabble with each series. For example, with the increased emphasis on battle maneuvering in recent Treks, we now have an additional level of technobabble, stuff like 'evasive pattern episilon 5'.