09-04-2005 11:58									#121
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by GePap Science is purely a set-up in SW- the Doomstar filling the place of the doomsday object- which is a pretty old story device. This is certainly a place were, if you were to rewrite SW in some fantasy setting, the "Death Star" (and you could even keep the same name) could become some awesome crystal based weapon or whatever.

But according to Imran, in SW, Lucas created a watershed plot that had never been done before and was copied by everyone else since! How could this be?

	09-04-2005 12:18									#122
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

ST enerds could beat the stecnch of SW nerds.

BTW SW stole their ideas from Dune. ****ign Imrna nad his Paki ideas.

	09-04-2005 12:25									#123
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

YEAH!!!

****ign Imrna

	09-04-2005 12:52									#124
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

but Iwnat you to understand that this man's an attorney. not just some dingbat i pikeced from ethe stret. eh's a forner. pakistani i think. but it doesn't matter, does it? are you prejudiced? Because in spite of his race, this man is valuable.

	09-04-2005 14:07									#125
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dissident anybody else ever wonder why Chewbacca doesn't have a penis?

Perhaps that's what's stuck on the side of Princess Leia's head.

She didn't understand the concept of ear muffs (and wookies are polymorphously polysexual) or they thought that the phrase 'pr!ck up your ears!' was meant to be taken literally...

	09-04-2005 22:15									#126
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Putting the foundation series in a "fantasy" setting would force significant thematic changes.

You only think so because you've convinces yourself in your mind it would. All you have to is change the theory of Psycohistory into something that was gained by magic. Why does the theory formed by magic have to be perfect? So that it won't fit and you can claim it is different? Magic doesn't have to be perfect and a theory formed by magical means may have to be constantly revised.

Why does a future predicted using magic have to be perfect? What hard fast rule says that may be so? Don't people knowing of the prediction change their actions and thus change the prediction?

quote: But according to Imran, in SW, Lucas created a watershed plot that had never been done before and was copied by everyone else since! How could this be?

Ah you and your strawmen. To Boris non-cliche = watershed plot! Can you come back when you actually read posts instead of inventing them in your head?

	09-04-2005 22:20									#127
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ah you and your strawmen. To Boris non-cliche = watershed plot! Can you come back when you actually read posts instead of inventing them in your head?

quote: It's cliche now, because movies have aped Star Wars in that regard.

You're the one saying that everyone is mimicking SW. Keep weaseling.

	09-04-2005 22:20									#128
	Suffering from ads?

Actually George Lucas studied mythology in college and borrowed the elements of a number of mythological epics when he wrote the basic Star Wars story.

	10-04-2005 09:06									#129
	Support Apolyton

Red Dwarf is the superior sci-fi universe.

	10-04-2005 10:50									#130
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Red Dwarf is garbage.

	11-04-2005 05:45									#131
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

So 2 out of 3 episodes the fans picked as their all time favorites for Enterprise involved...

TIME TRAVEL

	11-04-2005 05:52									#132
	Increase Your PM Length

Time travel rules. In 2010 we'll have a series all about time travellers from the 30th century. They'll visit ancient Vulcan, ancient Qo'nos, ancient Andor, ancient Bajor, the Iconians, the T'Kon, the Menthar, the Promellians, Earth in the days of the Bible, the ancient Americas, each of the starships Enterprise, and of course the Star Wars Galaxy.

	11-04-2005 05:58									#133
	Suffering from ads?

Time travel = crutch for bad writing

	11-04-2005 05:59									#134
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Next week we get to see the crew hit it with green Orion chicks.

	11-04-2005 08:44									#135
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov You're the one saying that everyone is mimicking SW. Keep weaseling.

Where is the weaseling here except on your part? A film can't use things that have been done before (but are not cliche) and because of its success spawn so many imitators that it becomes cliche?



Try to think things through once in while Boris, will you?

quote: Actually George Lucas studied mythology in college and borrowed the elements of a number of mythological epics when he wrote the basic Star Wars story.

Yep. Joseph Campbell (big mythology scholar) had a documentary looking at connections between Star Wars and some of the epic stories in the past. Though, of course that doesn't makes the pieces cliche, as Boris has asserted.

The only real cliche in SW was the whole chosen one stuff. Other things had been done before, but were far from cliche.

	11-04-2005 11:12									#136
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Star Wars exhibit at Smithsonian few years ago discussed how SW had mythology elements as well as Campbell works. Generally I hate museums and I enjoyed this exhibit.

	11-04-2005 11:19									#137
	Inflate your Upload Space

Speaking of hittin' it, Riker seems to be doing alright himself...

Attachment: riker_3.jpg
This has been downloaded 43 time(s).

	11-04-2005 11:20									#138
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

And we cannot overlook one of his greatest love.... Troi

Attachment: trasparenti17.jpg
This has been downloaded 44 time(s).

	11-04-2005 12:14									#139
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Speaking of hittin' it, Riker seems to be doing alright himself...

How the hell do I NOT remember this episode????

	11-04-2005 12:19									#140
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus And we cannot overlook one of his greatest love.... Troi

What exactly is going on in that photo?

	11-04-2005 12:29									#141
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Strip poker with Deanna Troi.

	11-04-2005 12:39									#142
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What exactly is going on in that photo?

that doesn't look like a photo from the show. She's never had her hair like that. although I just noticed the window with the stars on the other side. Maybe it's some kind of promotional shoot. Because I do not remember her ever having her hair like that during the show.

And this might be taken at the Star Trek Experience in the Las Vegas Hilton (as it looks like she is drinking "earth" cocktails)

	11-04-2005 15:00									#143
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by GePap For good sci fi look at Asimov, Lem, Clarck, Brin, heck, even Chriton's earlier works are very good sci fi.

What, no Forward?

	11-04-2005 15:04									#144
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Brent I'm far more interested in gaming and reference books than onscreen stuff

For the game that is based on Star Trek, try Star Fleet Battles. Excellent game of tactical combat between starships (and other objects).

The computer game Starfleet Battles is largely based on the board game, down to the notations (e.g. alpha strike). However, it sucks.

	11-04-2005 15:10									#145
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Still sci-fi.

No. GePap was right characterising what science fiction is.

Sci-fi is not mindless entertainment wrapped in a cloak of possible science - or worse, psuedoscience.

	11-04-2005 15:10									#146
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom It features a princess with what appear to be cinnamon danish pastries stuck to her head. Not very inspiring if she falls asleep at the breakfast table....

Hmmmm. I'm hungry and horny.

C3PO, get me princess Leia's number!

	11-04-2005 15:21									#147
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor And Mary Poppins. Dick van ****'s 'cockney' accent...

The legend's name has been half recovered from the autocensor. It's high time we reclaim "dike" as well!

That accent was even painful for Americans.

	11-04-2005 15:45									#148
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus And we cannot overlook one of his greatest love.... Troi

Ah, Marina Insertthis. Actress who played the most dreadful role in any of the Star Trek shows.
.........

I liked the original series Star Trek. It was my first experience with decent quality science fiction (all that dreck from the '50s does not qualify), and it was on TV for free every week. It explored some interesting ideas for me (I was a kid back then), and did so with humor oftentimes. I only saw a couple of the movies (Wrath of Khan comes to mind), but they were more nostalgia than anything worthy of my attention. I enjoyed TNG as well, but more as kind of mindless familiar comic space opera than science fiction. DS9 was good as well in a similar vein (though I admit it was more intellectually stimulating than TNG).

Star Wars started off with a bang. It had good special effects for the era, and its simple story nonetheless promised an interesting gradual exposition of an entire galaxy's histories and mysteries. Unfortunately instead of being the sort of thing (IMO) that could delight both parents and children, it became the sort of thing that children alone appreciate. I was too old to enjoy even the sequels when they came out. The great promised exposition turned out to be a lot more hinting around the edges while the main efforts were put into the lame characters, special effects, muppetry. Anything but the script. The more modern set of films is better than the last two of the first set (and what wasn't), but they don't do much for my even so, aside from impress with their special effects.

	11-04-2005 16:00									#149
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger No. GePap was right characterising what science fiction is. Sci-fi is not mindless entertainment wrapped in a cloak of possible science - or worse, psuedoscience.

Yes it is.

	11-04-2005 16:53									#150
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Fiction with reference to science in it? seems reasonable.