13-04-2005 07:44									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yep, which is why they prefer needing to know how to operate a smaller number of devices.

Especially given that my Xbox is SIMPLER to operate as a DVD player than my DVD player is

	13-04-2005 07:57									#62
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"The 70 million total further widens the PS2's lead over its rivals, Nintendo's GameCube and Microsoft's Xbox, which both are edging past the 10 million mark."

from http://news.com.com/PlayStation+2+p..._3-5141061.html

That was January, 2004. Gamecube has generally outsold XBox in the last year, from my understanding; so probably now has more marketshare than xbox.

	13-04-2005 09:34									#63
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 That was January, 2004. Gamecube has generally outsold XBox in the last year, from my understanding; so probably now has more marketshare than xbox.

Eh? Xbox has been outselling Gamecube (and even PS2) in the recent months, and has been outselling Gamecube consistently for a long, long time.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/0...ws_6116430.html

quote: December NPD data delivers dose of reality Hardware shortages drag down tally for game industry; analysts caution against overexposure to game stocks in '05. Fall hardware shortage at the retail level put quite the damper on December sales, according to NPD data cited by industry analysts today. Month-on-month hardware unit sales were off 12 percent for December--and for the full year, unit sales slumped 7 percent. Year-on-year December sales saw Xbox hardware sales down 7 percent, PlayStation 2 sales down 50 percent, GameCube sales down 30 percent, and Game Boy Advance hardware sales remain flat. Total software dollar sales were off just 1 percent in December, compared to December 2003. Total dollar sales of video games in December were $1.7 billion, according to NPD data. By platform, analysts reported that PS2 software declined by 9 percent, Xbox saw increased software sales of 20 percent year-on-year for December, GameCube software sales declined by 9 percent, and all Game Boy software increased 12 percent. NPD tracked DS game sales as driving $35 million from sales of 1.1 million units.

Also, NPD Trust hardware sales in November '04 (only month I have readily available):

quote: Monthly hardware sales: Xbox: 708,000 PS2: 694,000 Gamecube: 350,000 Hardware sales year over year percentages: PS2: -18.3% XBX: +44.2% GCN: -53.6% Xbox's lead over GCN increases to 2.46 million, or 29.4%

	13-04-2005 09:43									#64
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2004 totals:
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/si...al/10680882.htm

quote: Microsoft came out a winner in the console battle in 2004. The software giant's Xbox console sold 4 million units in the United States, up 27 percent from 3.2 million a year earlier, according to data supplied by NPD to its clients. Sony sold more PlayStation 2 units than Microsoft for a total of 4.6 million units. But those sales represented a 28 percent drop from 2003 because of a severe shortage of consoles during the holidays as Sony shifted manufacturing to a smaller version of the PlayStation 2. Nintendo's GameCube, meanwhile, saw a disappointing year with sales flat at 2.3 million units, along with a weak showing in software sales. Microsoft started gaining early last year when it cut hardware prices ahead of Sony. That trend continued during the year with the Xbox beating the PlayStation in hardware sales for the fourth quarter, a first since Microsoft launched its console in 2001. ``We won the holiday no matter how you slice it,'' said Maroof Haque, Xbox business manager. ``If you look at who is growing, we had a phenomenal year.''

The Gamecube is in a solid #3 position, and declining.
Xbox is in a solid #2 position, and rising.
PS2 is in a solid #1 position, and declining.

And seeing as the Xbox is going to be the first to launch for the next-gen in all liklihood, I think they'll maintain that momentum.

	13-04-2005 11:42									#65
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Being first to market will be a big help as long as Sony doesn't have a trump card (such as a better feature or better games) to push it back into first. X-Box should take the lead during this generation of hardware while Nintendo is going to continue producing little kiddy games and sinking further behind. Nintendo is sick like Sega and Atari were sick before it. They can still survive but as their market share continues to decline it will get harder and harder to stay in the hardware business.

	13-04-2005 13:25									#66
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Who cares, in the end you'll have to buy both anyway...

	13-04-2005 13:33									#67
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I haven't bought one of those game machines in 17 years or so and I doubt I will buy one until I have a pack of offspring begging me to buy one which shouldn't be any time soon.

	13-04-2005 14:53									#68
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In that case you could care even less...

	13-04-2005 18:11									#69
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MS has even gotten bands like The Killers to perform at the Xbox2 unveiling.

They seem to know what they're doing.

	13-04-2005 18:27									#70
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Being first to market isn't a guarantee that you'll do well (see the Dreamcast) but I don't think that will happen with the Xbox since they seem to know how to cater to the frat boy and mouth-breathing MTV watcher demographics.

edit: Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing. It's actually impressive to see them tapping into an untapped demographic to expand the gaming business.

	13-04-2005 18:48									#71
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I agree that being first to market isn't a guarantee that you'll do well.

Sony markets better than Sega and Nintendo. They played up the hype (Saddam is buying PS2s to guide missiles and such!, PS2 is a supercomputer and is export-restricted!), and Sega couldn't respond in kind.

They're trying the same thing right now (with all of this silly Cell hype), but MS is far more of competent to mass-marketing than Sony is. They have the budget to get huge launch parties and the momentum to quiet the Sony roar.

	13-04-2005 19:08									#72
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well the cell chip is pretty cool and its named "cell" which is even cooler.... in a field where coolness plays an important role I'd say this is quite important!

	13-04-2005 19:09									#73
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What's not cool is how much of a pain it will be to develop with, and how the theoretical specs are insanely impractical in the real world.

	13-04-2005 20:58									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The problem here is it fails on the grounds that they all don't have an "even footing" like the launch of a new console. PCs have more software than Macs so that's not a valid comparison (though most Mac users do believe they are buying higher quality products than PCs, even though Acer makes the PowerBooks, for example). And I would definitely get a Delorean over a BMW.

well the Mac users of course must think theyre higher quality or they wouldnt pay a premium. The point is that there arent very many Mac users. Wintel boxes, by having lower prices (as well as more software) have dominated the market. Evidently most consumers see them as equivalent in quality. The use of price to signal higher quality, while a real effect, is not unlimited. Similarly with cars - pricing high didnt win DeLorean sufficient share to survive. Ditto BMW has done reasonably well (and forgive me if this has changed lately, I dont follow lux cars all that closely) compared to Mercedes etc by selling at a lower price point. In non-lux cars, its complex, with Honda commanding a slight premium to Toyota and Nissan, and those two commanding a premium to US and Korean nameplates. But raising prices to a major premium to signal quality doesnt appear to be a good strategy. It least not across the board.

	13-04-2005 21:39									#75
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oh snap

quote: Xbox 360 name confirmed; console design details revealed GamesIndustry.biz staff 16:37 13/04/2005 British sources confirm previously rumoured details about Microsoft's new console British sources have confirmed that the next generation Xbox is indeed called Xbox 360, that the logo is a simple, round nexus, and that the console itself has a concave design - and a platinum white finish. Many rumours - some of them conflicting - have been circulating in the past months regarding Microsoft's next generation system, but speaking under conditions of strict anonymity, a British source who is privy to Microsoft's marketing documents for the console has now cleared up much of the speculation. The name of Xbox's successor is Xbox 360, we can confirm, and the design of the machine is indeed a concave shape. The machine can stand upright and hollows in at the middle, like it's "sucking in its cheeks," our source told us today. Previous rumours had put the console as light silver, although fresh information says the final design may be white. It's impossible to tell from the documents, our source explained - although the glimpse of the machine's controllers given on viral marketing website OurColony does suggest a platinum-white colour scheme for the hardware. According to the source, the rumoured slot for the hard drive module - which was apparently at the top of the machine - is not obvious on the document, and the person was unable to clarify where the slot for discs is actually located. One other aspect we've been unable to confirm is the rumoured customisation features on the box. It's been speculated that the emphasis on customisation which J Allard touted at the Game Developers Conference last month could extend to allowing users to change the "skin" of the console, but this feature was not mentioned by our source. As for the logo of the console, it is described as a simple, round nexus with "Xbox 360" written inside it. Previous rumours had simply the numbers "360" in the disc. This branding tends to suggest that we can expect to see "360" appearing after many game names, as happened with the Nintendo 64. Microsoft will show the console for the first time in a half-hour special on MTV on May 12, a week ahead of E3. The company's press conference, on Monday, May 16, will be the first viewing of the console to the trade en bloc. Xbox 360 is expected to receive a global release in late 2005. When contacted today, Microsoft simply said that it does not comment on rumours and speculation relating to next generation product.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=7991

	13-04-2005 22:46									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Asher What's not cool is how much of a pain it will be to develop with, and how the theoretical specs are insanely impractical in the real world.

Isn't that totally irrelevant to its success?

Both consoles will have breathtaking graphics.

	13-04-2005 22:49									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Isn't that totally irrelevant to its success? Both consoles will have breathtaking graphics.

Not necessarily -- if both consoles have both versions of the game for the same price, and one looks and sounds better than the other, you can bet that it has an advantage.

That's one reason third-party sales are much better on Xbox than Gamecube, for instance.

Further, ease of development translates to reduced development cost. That translates into reduced develoment time and increased quantity of titles, which is absolutely a key component to a console's success.

	14-04-2005 02:15									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Who cares, in the end you'll have to buy both anyway...

Why?

	14-04-2005 05:36									#79
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quote: British sources have confirmed that the next generation Xbox is indeed called Xbox 360

Ugh...

	14-04-2005 09:27									#80
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Yeah, that's an utterly pansy name. I thought MS was going for the cool market. Now with the white box, calling it '360', and having a 'concave' shape, they seem to be following Apple in the style department.

	14-04-2005 09:28									#81
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quote: they seem to be following Apple in the style department.

God forbid...

	14-04-2005 09:47									#82
	Tired of ads?

Apple's style wasn't exactly the demographic market they were going for with XBox 1. The 'bad' teens (in quotes for the purpose) are suspicious of things that are white - expect for their own skins.

	14-04-2005 09:48									#83
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If that's your point, then they aren't emulating Apple at all. Apple is extremely good at creating styles that appeal to its customers.

	14-04-2005 09:54									#84
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I'm just talking simply about the stylistic part, not how apt it is to appeal to customers.

After all, if a company like Hot Topic (Fez's favorite) decided to sell Apple style white computers. They'd emulate the style of Apple, but not the attentative to customer's preference.

	14-04-2005 09:55									#85
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Fair enough.

	14-04-2005 10:04									#86
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I'm not expecting much. The Xbox wasn't exactly a masterpiece of industrial design .

	14-04-2005 11:10									#87
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I just hope the third-generation Xbox is called the "Xbox 1080 kickflip-to-McTwist"

	14-04-2005 20:07									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Not necessarily -- if both consoles have both versions of the game for the same price, and one looks and sounds better than the other, you can bet that it has an advantage. That's one reason third-party sales are much better on Xbox than Gamecube, for instance. Further, ease of development translates to reduced development cost. That translates into reduced develoment time and increased quantity of titles, which is absolutely a key component to a console's success.

¡Anda ya! First you have to prove that development for XBOX is really easier and cheaper and then you can forget about it, because the influence that you describe is so neglible. Companies will write games for the console that people buy and if they get more support from MS or Sony, but not if it's easier to develop for it. That's because you're developer, you like to have it that way, but it's not and it has never been. Technical superiority also is no guarantee for anything.

The difference in graphics will probably be neglible as well, as the chips are made by the two biggest graphics manufactures (ATI for the XBOX, nVidia for the PS3). Both know how to do their work equally well.

	14-04-2005 20:16									#89
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I don't have to prove Xbox development is easier than PS2, every developer interviewed has said so.

PS2 is notoriously difficult and expensive to program for, and PS3 is not going to be any better.

At the time it was the only "real" console for the mass market so it got all the games. Now MS is a real competitor with more momentum and an earlier launch date with deeper pockets, and coupled with easier development it's not a good combo for Sony...

As for graphics (NV vs ATI) -- it looks like it's not that simple. From what it seems, Nvidia is providing the raster functions while "Cell" will provide the "vertex/pixel" shaders, which is the most important part of a graphics chip in terms of capabilities.

	23-04-2005 07:55									#90
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Ladies and gentlemen, the Xbox 360.

They weren't kidding when they said it was to be smaller.