16-04-2005 00:39									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Some gave you an actual reason.

The standard excuse is "we've received so many applications" followed by "we are confident that someone with your qualifications will have no trouble finding work elsewhere. We will keep your application on file for one year . . ." and blah, blah, blah.

As for your next step, I recommend you storm into the interviewer's office, pull open the top of his pants and shoot a stream of seltzer down the front of them. Then hit him over the top of the head with a rubber chicken and run away laughing madly.

	16-04-2005 00:42									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I've beens swamped all week and haven't had a chance to get on here, but since I work in HR, I thought I'd chime in.

If I have a pool of 5-6 candidates for a job that are all qualified for it, then I will hire the person who is the best overall fit for the company, not necessarily the one of that group who has the "best" qualifications. If you're at the interview stage, then you've met a base level of qualifications needed for the job, and you can be assured everyone else interviewing has as well. Companies are often willing to take on less-qualified people whom they think are overall better for the company.

Beyond qualifications for the job, I have to assess several things:

-Will they be a personality fit with their supervisor
-Will they get along well with their colleagues and fit in easily
-Will they be a long-termer, or will the jump ship the moment a better/higher paying job comes along

The last is critical. I want people who will stick with the company for a while, who have potential to grow in their roles and become a real asset. If s/he's looks like she's going to jump to a new job in 6 months-1 year, then it's a waste of my time. The easiest way to assess this is look at their resume and see if they are a job hopper. Job hoppers have tons of experience, but it's usually all a matter of a few months here and there at any one company. That never looks good.

I'd echo rah in that you should never adjust your style of interviewing based on one rejection. The most important thing to be in an interview is yourself. If a company decides you're not the right personality fit, they're probably right, in which case they're doing you a favor. Who'd want to work in a company culture that isn't right for them? That just leads to trouble.

	16-04-2005 00:46									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

bah!

If I was myself I'd be all "will I have lots of down time? because if I can't post at poly while at work they'd probably all think I'd died and have a party!@"

	16-04-2005 00:53									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

A friend of mine from school days got turned down by Cambridge University twice.
He was one of those child genius types - all science and maths(which was his main subject). He used to teach some of the lessons in the schools top maths group because he just knew it better than the teacher.

It was a shame, because he'd set himself up for cambridge for a long time, even wanting to become a proffessor there.

Still i remember after his first failed interview, he was really gutted, became distant from most of his school friends and just recently i heard he had tried again a couple of years after his first attempt, but didnt pass the interview, even though his skills were way over the requirements.

Ok he could speak in 1+0's , but i never found him incapable of normal communication? I keep meaning to try to catch up with him and see where hes at.

Sometimes i guess we never really know exactly the reasons that we don't get what we are expecting to get?

	16-04-2005 01:11									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The worst interview I ever went to started with them asking me how much I wanted in remuneration.

If you can't see why that is a bad interview....

	16-04-2005 01:23									#36
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

"We'd love to employ you, but... we decided to not get back to you or return any of your phone calls/e-mails"

Thats the one that pisses me off.

	16-04-2005 01:36									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Thats the one that pisses me off.

I'm getting that one right now!

Don't really piss me off as I don't really want to work there.

Just got a message that a company in Louisville wants to lead me on... Well they'll just have to wait until Monday because I can't get to a private phone until then! So, HA!

	16-04-2005 02:10									#38
	Remove this text

quote: Job hoppers have tons of experience, but it's usually all a matter of a few months here and there at any one company. That never looks good.

I guess I count as a job hopper, but the problem with that assessment is that the jobs have left me, rather than me leaving the jobs. I have the time put in with a variety of different companies, but each time work dried up and I had to look elsewhere for work.

Just because a person has the time put in with many different companies, is not necessarily an indication of job hopping on the part of the employee.

I've struggled with that perception, and I said up front, tell me what you want in terms of commitment, whether a year or more. If you are willing to commit to hiring me for that time, I am more than willing to work for you. The problem with this is that many companies are not willing to commit for that period of time until you have had a chance to work for them. It's a vicious cycle.

	16-04-2005 02:16									#39
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Japher Just got a message that a company in Louisville wants to lead me on... Well they'll just have to wait until Monday because I can't get to a private phone until then! So, HA!

You might want to call, email, whatever ASAP.

Why?

They're telling you this on a Friday afternoon. It's a test. They want to see how responsive you are on Friday afternoons. If you wait 'til Monday, they might say "**** 'im."

That is, if you want the job. If you don't, don't worry about it.

	16-04-2005 02:19									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I guess I count as a job hopper, but the problem with that assessment is that the jobs have left me, rather than me leaving the jobs. I have the time put in with a variety of different companies, but each time work dried up and I had to look elsewhere for work.

Any reasonable HR or interviewee will note why you left as well. If you jumped from Lucent to Enron to Global Crossing as those went in the toilet back in '2000, 2001, nobody would blame you for "job hopping."

Though, if superstitious, they might not hire you anyway with a track record like that. I probably wouldn't.

	16-04-2005 02:20									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: The problem with this is that many companies are not willing to commit for that period of time until you have had a chance to work for them. It's a vicious cycle.

I have been in the job market for 6 years now, and I have been with 2 companies. The first company told me that after 2 years I would be elgible for promotion. After 20 months of working for them they raised the 2 year standard to 5 years. That ticked me off. So I applied for the promotion anyway, and was denied it for lack of tenure, stated by "you didn't want it enough". So, I left.

I have been with this company 4 years. When I started I was given a specific compensation with a specific timeline for promotions and pay raises. 2 years ago the company got bought out, and all those promises thrown to the wind. I had to fight for my promotion, and I am now looking because the job growth in this company, in this area, looks really bad. Staying for the last 2 years has been tough, but I did so because I didn't want to be labled a job hopper. Needless to say I am being very picky on the next job I take and want to stay there for at least 5 years.

	16-04-2005 02:27									#42
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: I've struggled with that perception, and I said up front, tell me what you want in terms of commitment, whether a year or more. If you are willing to commit to hiring me for that time, I am more than willing to work for you. The problem with this is that many companies are not willing to commit for that period of time until you have had a chance to work for them. It's a vicious cycle.

No, the problem with this is that the person across the table from you is thinking:

Hey, he just said that he's gonna "give" us one year. I want somebody for the long-haul, somebody who wants a career not a job. I'll go through the motions, but cut this one short.

That "David" guy sounded promising... I think he's at 3:00. Let me check...

Time to wrap this one up and get the short-timer out of here. I've spent a "reasonable" amount of time with him, regardless of vague HR rules...

Capice?

	16-04-2005 02:30									#43
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Japher I have been in the job market for 6 years now, and I have been with 2 companies. The first company told me that after 2 years I would be elgible for promotion. After 20 months of working for them they raised the 2 year standard to 5 years. That ticked me off. So I applied for the promotion anyway, and was denied it for lack of tenure, stated by "you didn't want it enough". So, I left.

So you applied for a promotion that you weren't even eligible for by the original rules, got turned down, and then quit out of irritation?

quote: I have been with this company 4 years. When I started I was given a specific compensation with a specific timeline for promotions and pay raises. 2 years ago the company got bought out, and all those promises thrown to the wind. I had to fight for my promotion, and I am now looking because the job growth in this company, in this area, looks really bad. Staying for the last 2 years has been tough, but I did so because I didn't want to be labled a job hopper. Needless to say I am being very picky on the next job I take and want to stay there for at least 5 years.

Sounds like a more reasonable plan of action than in the first scenario.

Yeah, buyouts suck 'cause the rules can change on you. I feel for ya.

	16-04-2005 02:36									#44
	Put an end to popups!

quote: So you applied for a promotion that you weren't even eligible for by the original rules, got turned down, and then quit out of irritation?

By the time the interview process was over it was 24 months. I applied at the appropriate time to receive the promotion on schedule with the intial plan. It was either apply then, or wait another year or so until another position opened up.

My boss at the time even told me it was f'd up, and was happy that I got what I wanted in the end.

	16-04-2005 02:37									#45
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Japher By the time the interview process was over it was 24 months. I applied at the appropriate time to receive the promotion on schedule with the intial plan. It was either apply then, or wait another year or so until another position opened up. My boss at the time even told me it was f'd up, and was happy that I got what I wanted in the end.

Ahhh. That part (that you played by the original rules the entire process) was unclear. Thanks.

	16-04-2005 02:44									#46
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I always say I want the opportunity for growth, and I do. If that means I need to hop jobs than that is the fault of the company I am with. I am not picky on job growth either. Granted, if I sit in the same position for more than 2 years and have time and time again proved myself worthy of promotion, and don't get it... I will look else where. What I do make clear in the interview is that I need to know the rules of front, and the comes in discussion of management stratagies and promotion basis. While some companies do have this tenure idea I find that some companies are entirely performance based. Which is better? I think a little of both, but I make it clear that I am not going to be happy doing the same thing they are hiring me for in 2 years or so. That there better be room for growth.

I think that is what BK is saying by I'll give you 1 year, and if this job is going nowhere you can shove it.

	16-04-2005 02:55									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think you have characterized what BK said incorrectly. It is more of a "I was committed to those employers, but they were not committed to me. When business was bad, they laid me off. If you are wondering if I will stay with you, the answer is yes, unless you lay me off too."

	16-04-2005 03:00									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: I want somebody for the long-haul, somebody who wants a career not a job. I'll go through the motions, but cut this one short.

Fair enough. Companies looking for people who want a career, ought to be providing them with one, and not just the job.

Too often the 'careers' provided have the following characteristics:

1. Too few hours to make a living wage
2. Too low compensation to do the same

Or some combination of the two.

You want a career, then you should be looking at giving me something I can live off of, not a job where I need to find two others just to make ends meet.

Capische?

	16-04-2005 03:59									#49
	Support Apolyton

I tend to get the "He interviewed well, but we found someone with more experience"

Due to me not having any relevent experience. The major problem is I am applying for entry-level positions so how can I get experience if I can't get that first job?

	16-04-2005 04:04									#50
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns I tend to get the "He interviewed well, but we found someone with more experience" Due to me not having any relevent experience. The major problem is I am applying for entry-level positions so how can I get experience if I can't get that first job?

you lie and tell them you have experience .

Or you know someone who can get you in.

	16-04-2005 04:18									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dissident most of my jobs I've been hired at were for companies that were desparate for people. They had no choice, but to take me.

I think it worked a bit like that for me in the earlier days...but that valuable experience got me where I am now...

	16-04-2005 04:21									#52
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns I tend to get the "He interviewed well, but we found someone with more experience" Due to me not having any relevent experience. The major problem is I am applying for entry-level positions so how can I get experience if I can't get that first job?

You could do temporary and contract work. Lets them be less worried about hiring the wrong guy as they can replace them more easily. Once you're in you can prove your worth.

	16-04-2005 04:26									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dauphin You could do temporary and contract work. Lets them be less worried about hiring the wrong guy as they can replace them more easily. Once you're in you can prove your worth.

That has worked for me this time very effectively, and I'm looking at a pretty prompt promotion too...a year or so...

	16-04-2005 08:40									#54
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york MRT: But that's impossible to judge at interview! Only when you get them to meet the people they'll be working with will you really know.

That's one of the reasons why they called you in for an interview. Of course, some companies have more sensible ways (e.g. meeting the people you would work with) to do so than others.

	16-04-2005 08:43									#55
	Re: Re: "We'd love to employ you, but ......." Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Who got the job? The other person...I was turned down for being 'too confident'.

That means you were too uppity Rich They feared that you wouldn't fit into their company.

	16-04-2005 08:52									#56
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dauphin You could do temporary and contract work. Lets them be less worried about hiring the wrong guy as they can replace them more easily. Once you're in you can prove your worth.

Also doing work for a non-profit organisation, even as a volunteer, can help you put a foot in the door. Suppose if you help the local Red Cross to fix their computers on a voluntary basis, they may hire you to do more IT work later. You may even pitch them to computerise after you become friendly with the people inside.

	16-04-2005 11:10									#57
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by JohnT quote: I guess I count as a job hopper, but the problem with that assessment is that the jobs have left me, rather than me leaving the jobs. I have the time put in with a variety of different companies, but each time work dried up and I had to look elsewhere for work.

Different problem arises there. When I was in executive recruiting in NY, almost every client we had blackballed anyone, and I mean anyone who had worked for Enron most recently. It was categorically unfair, but they wouldn't budge on it. I spent one dispiriting afternoon on the phone with a 50-year old exec woman from Enron whose entire retirement was gone trying to explain why none of the positions we had would work. It was one of the most heart-rending moments of my professional life (A big **** you to Ken Lay, you sonofa*****).

	16-04-2005 11:12									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Why was that, Boris? Why was "the little guy" blackballed?

	16-04-2005 11:16									#59
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Fair enough. Companies looking for people who want a career, ought to be providing them with one, and not just the job. Too often the 'careers' provided have the following characteristics: 1. Too few hours to make a living wage 2. Too low compensation to do the same Or some combination of the two. You want a career, then you should be looking at giving me something I can live off of, not a job where I need to find two others just to make ends meet. Capische?

In this job market, why should an employer go for that when he can find someone just as qualified who will swallow his pride and give the employer what he wants?

You may think the hours/wages are demeaning, but in most cases, an employer won't offer them unless they can get people for those terms.

I'll never forget the e-mail we got from someone about a job we had posted on our company website. It was for a night-time, part-time document processor, $9/hour. The e-mail basically said, "hey, maybe you'd get people for this job if you offered more than a demeaning wage." Funny enough, that e-mail was sandwiched in between dozens of resume submittals for the same job. We filled it pretty quickly.

	16-04-2005 11:18									#60
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Why was that, Boris? Why was "the little guy" blackballed?

It was a woman, and she was blackballed because she had the unfortunate name "Enron" on her resume. She'd done nothing wrong, but companies were so frightened by the fallout from the whole fiasco that they just put down a blanket refusal of Enron employees.