15-04-2005 23:46									#1
	Please critique my WW2 map! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hi there, I am working on a smaller map for my future projects,
and have placed 98% of the cities, but what I need is the
combined brain-power of the CIV2 people here to make
a formal interrogation of the city placement and perhaps
suggest any cities you think should be added.

I reckon I have around 3-6 cities left to use.
I would appreciate any advice and suggestions!



PS
Ignore the civ names for now, they won't be added till I
create a scn file.

Blue = USA
Red = USSR
Orange = UK
Dark Orange = Commonwealth
White = Japan
Grey = Germany
Yellow = Neutrals

Thanks in advance, you fellows!

Attachment: dicta-map2.zip
This has been downloaded 24 time(s).

	16-04-2005 00:22									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Just a couple of comments:

Would it be possible to squeeze in a fifth city on the US West coast for the US player? This would help the US to expand navally into the Pacific (esp when under AI control). I think San Francisco is too far north anyway, and if shifted south would allow a smaller city such as Newport, Oregon, to be placed at 7,39.

There might be in issue with Leningrad: leaving free access from the Baltic to the in-land lakes would allow an unfriendly nation (from the USSR perpsective) to threaten communications to Murmansk, and also allows for a city to be built at 86,14 to allow transit from the Baltic to the White Sea.

I'd also like to see more islands in the Pacific. Remember Mercators advice to clump islands together at first so they retain the same landmass number (if that would cause a problem). They can be split in-game by terrain editing.

	16-04-2005 02:52									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hmm, alot of cities could be renamed to their native names.

Some examples:
Cologne - Köln
Munich - München
Konigsberg - Köningsberg
VIENNA - WIEN
Milan - Milano
ROME - ROMA
etc etc.


More suggestions:

Isn't 79,53 a better square for Malta?

Leningrad is also misplaced IMHO. It should me @ 87,71 though then you have to rearrange the lakes.

Why is Lima a Commonwealth city?

South African cities are a little misplaced IMHO, at least Johannesburg is far too north (in Zimbabwe).


Well, these were some suggestions. I'm sure there are people with more and better ones.

	16-04-2005 03:04									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Bucharest and Sofia should be German cities: Romania and Bulgaria were staunch supporters of the Nazi regime by late '40.

	16-04-2005 05:19									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

@Panda:
This useful advice is being taken for the USA and added Newport...Cheers, dude!
I agree Leningrad needs to be better placed...
I have followed your pointers and added Belomorsk to the White Sea coast.

PS
I checked the map in the editor and there should be no AI problems...

@Arthedain:
I want to stick with the English version names for now, for ease of use.

I have moved Valletta to the square you suggested.

Some of the placed cities will be made into rebel cities, via the CIVcity utility.

I will have a look at my maps again in regards to South Africa.

@Patine:
To represent the mayhem in the Balkans of 1940, I had
these cities as rebels in my previous WW2 scens, I will
do that here too, it helps the flow of war events too.

It keeps the German AI civ busy for a while and means
they won't launch Barabrossa in August 1940!

Any more edits, just let me know - I am willing to change any city placement!

	16-04-2005 05:46									#6
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by curtsibling I agree Leningrad needs to be better placed... I have followed your pointers and added Belomorsk to the White Sea coast.

Actually I trying to suggest that it would be undesirable to allow a city to be built there and allow transit. OTOH, could make for some more interesting gameplay if the axis capture the city and effectively isolate the peninsular.

	16-04-2005 06:21									#7
	Support Apolyton

Weird, I get an error when trying to open it

	16-04-2005 10:27									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah, me too. I'm guessing it's for ToT.

	16-04-2005 11:33									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Arthedain Konigsberg - Köningsberg

Not exactly: Königsberg would be correct...

But as the english version will prevail, that was just nitpicking...

	16-04-2005 14:04									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Panda Actually I trying to suggest that it would be undesirable to allow a city to be built there and allow transit. OTOH, could make for some more interesting gameplay if the axis capture the city and effectively isolate the peninsular.

Aha!

My apologies!

Personally, which would you think is the better option?

	16-04-2005 14:05									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by N35t0r Yeah, me too. I'm guessing it's for ToT.

Oooops!

My bad - It is a ToT save file!

	16-04-2005 14:22									#12
	Tired of ads?

I'd like some suggestions for Pacific island cities too - If you all have them!

	16-04-2005 16:09									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

For Norway, I'd much rather have Narvik than the teny tiny city of Hammerfest. Not that Narvik is much bigger, but it was way more important. It's iron ore supply lengthened ww2.

Also, I'd like to see more cities in South America than in Africa. Looks like Africa is over emphasized.

Also, Honolulu is too far to the north. It should be more like 0,62. Then you could have the Marshall Isl. at 147,75. And the Marianne (is that it's english name?) Isl. at 139,77. Solomon Isl. at 147,89. Guam at 138,76.

	16-04-2005 21:19									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

@Kobra:

I guess Narvik was an important area in WW2 also,
rather than ditch Hammerfest, I might just add Narvik also!

About South America - It played hardly any part in WW2,
and Africa I consider more tempting to the Axis, due to
the diamonds spread over the continent!



I will take your Pacific advice on board!

	17-04-2005 08:15									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Another thing, Curt. You have ALL of China under Japanese control; by mid-'40, only less than a third of it actually was. Just a note.

	17-04-2005 10:20									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I bet he's gonna transfer many of those cities to Rebel hands

	17-04-2005 12:50									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Curt, I´ll take a look it that save today ... prepare yourself for the commentary onslaught, old chap

	17-04-2005 15:58									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

@Jim:

Cheers!

@Patine:
@N35t0r:

Indeed, I will be converting many cities to rebel in due course,
it is the actual tile placement that I am worried about just now!

	18-04-2005 08:59									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Curt, I don’t understand why you want to use this map. It is not too bad north-south but east-west it has been compressed too much and not uniformly. For example, the Pacific is half as wide as the Atlantic when it should be the other way around. Any naval operations will be severly distorted. Your Dictator3 gigamap is orders of magnitude better.

SUGGESTIONS

Remove Ottawa and replace it with Montreal on the St Lawrence river square immediately to the SE. Ottawa was nothing but a hick town crawling with politicians during WWII. Come to think of it, 60 years later, it is now a hick city crawling with politicians.

Rename Indianapolis as Cincinnati. Indianapolis is not on the Ohio River.
Replace Brownsville with Houston.
Replace Austin with Dallas.
LA and San Diego are too far south by about 2 squares. Right now, San Diego is in Mexican territory.
Move Denver to the hill square immediately to the west.

Shouldn’t Montevideo be Sao Paolo or Rio de Janeiro? Montevideo is actually due east of Buenos Aires.

Move Paris NE so that it is on the Seine river square.
Move Cologne NE so that it is on the Rhine river square.
Move Leningrad to the ocean square to the NW.

There is too little space in the Ukraine for so many cities.
Remove Orel.
Move Kharkov to the river square south of Orel. Right now Kharkov is much too far east.
Move Rostov north so that it is on the Don river square.

	18-04-2005 13:33									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA Curt, I don’t understand why you want to use this map. It is not too bad north-south but east-west it has been compressed too much and not uniformly. For example, the Pacific is half as wide as the Atlantic when it should be the other way around. Any naval operations will be severly distorted. Your Dictator3 gigamap is orders of magnitude better.

The problem is the gigamap - While I love it personally,
the AI is really handicapped by the amount of islands,
In that the USA sits and does nothing...Not very useful.

A real map master is helping me overcome this problem,
but in
the event of this solution not working, I have this
map as a standby...

I wish I could find a good world map that is a size
between the giga and this one, so the AI could give
the player a real challenge...

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA SUGGESTIONS Remove Ottawa and replace it with Montreal on the St Lawrence river square immediately to the SE. Ottawa was nothing but a hick town crawling with politicians during WWII. Come to think of it, 60 years later, it is now a hick city crawling with politicians.

Done!

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA Rename Indianapolis as Cincinnati. Indianapolis is not on the Ohio River. Replace Brownsville with Houston. Replace Austin with Dallas. LA and San Diego are too far south by about 2 squares. Right now, San Diego is in Mexican territory. Move Denver to the hill square immediately to the west.

Major changes will be carried out, as you command!

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA Shouldn’t Montevideo be Sao Paolo or Rio de Janeiro? Montevideo is actually due east of Buenos Aires.

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA Move Paris NE so that it is on the Seine river square. Move Cologne NE so that it is on the Rhine river square. Move Leningrad to the ocean square to the NW.

I do miss the giga map when it comes to Europe, it
needs more detail than the map I have will allow...

I will get tweaking!

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA There is too little space in the Ukraine for so many cities. Remove Orel. Move Kharkov to the river square south of Orel. Right now Kharkov is much too far east. Move Rostov north so that it is on the Don river square.

Stalin won;t be pleased to lose a city, but I will do it!

	18-04-2005 13:52									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hmm...Agricola has got me thinking...!

I have got the original Dictator giga map working with no
warnings from the map editor. So, I am going to go back and
place the cities, with a totally fresh version and take the
chance to repair some little issues that were in the old map.

Once the placement is done, I will post it up again and
let you interrogate it! My thanks to those who gave
suggestions, and I can promise this new map and
scenario version will be worthy of my comrades here on SL!

	19-04-2005 23:10									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

New Map for critique!

I have went back to the Mercator giga map and remade the city placements to something that promises some exciting battles if the AI works this time!

Please have a look and tell me what you think!

* Please ignore city ownership, as I am more interested in placement at this time.

* This is a ToT map, so you must load it with that version.

* I wish to keep European cities in the International style.

* Cities are maxed out, so any additions will need removal of another city!

* The USSR and USA are now vast in terms of cities, and this will
mean a fight to the death for the 3rd Reich and Japanese civ!

Attachment: dicta-map3.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	19-04-2005 23:15									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This is the current map layout...Just to give a sense of the scale.

Cyan = USA
Red = USSR
Grey = 3rd Reich
Yellow = Neutrals
White = Japanese Empire
Orange = British Empire
Dark Orange = Commonwealth

*Some cities in China, East Europe and the Middle East will be transformed to barbs...

Attachment: ww2.png
This has been downloaded 93 time(s).

	20-04-2005 01:22									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Just took a wuick look. I'm glad you're using a big map like this one again.

Goteborg should be @ 128,40 and Stockholm should be @ 131,37
Narvik @ 131,27 IMHO (Eivind might gev you a beeter tip though).
Gibraltar @ 116,66 - in Europe, not in Africa
Godhtab should be moved a square or two to the north.

Bah, I will stop nag now. I'm so glad that you will make a new version of Dictator. I'm sure this one will be the best ever, now that you use ToT with its advantages (especially more units).

	20-04-2005 01:35									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Cheers! I will add those tweaks to make Scandinavia proud!

And Gibraltar too!

	20-04-2005 02:25									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Can't find the civ2 cd. Is there any no cd patch for TOT? But from the looks of it you could remove some Chinese or East-Africa cities to add some Pacific objectives.

Also, as I don't have the cd here I can't tell, but it looks like the map I useed for my Blitzkrieg scens. I spent a lot of time making cities placed correct. You should use it as a reference.

	20-04-2005 03:10									#27
	Tired of ads?

@Kobra:
It an edited version of the famed J-World map (by Merc),
I used these babies as far back as Dictator 2 for MGE.
So worry not, I have not stole your Blitzkrieg map!...

PS
Some pacific sea forts could be useful, I will have to look and
see if any cities can be dropped elsewhere, like Africa or North USA.

PPS
I will check your map layouts if you can give me a link, old chap!

	20-04-2005 04:09									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Follow "Find my civ2 scenarios here" in my sig. Blitzkrieg 1936 is the newest of the BK scens, and therefor most correct, city placement wise.

And btw, it's not my map

	20-04-2005 04:31									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Perhaps you could drop a city or two in the middle east?

	20-04-2005 06:27									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I'm back from being where ever I was or whatever I was doing, it's kind of hazy to me quite honestly. Anywho, I can't open either of the maps, but from your image, I can see two cities that should be directly under British control.

Georgetown (Guyana) -- Guyana wasn't independent until 1966.

Bandar Seri Begawan (Brunei) -- Brunei also was not independent until 1984.