21-04-2005 22:45									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Not Blizzard, not Marxis, Not Firaxis (so far ).

Marxis? Did they release Sim Communist?

	21-04-2005 23:52									#32
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Skanky's point is valid, but so's UR's. Remember Activision, EA, Maxis, Atari, Sierra and Microprose. They've all produced an awful lot of titles and have survived up to a point. Now only Activision and EA stand up like before. Many studios only indeed get very little done. What happen to the one that made MoO3? No news from them. Maybe went all out off business. Many studios do indeed only make one or two titles, but it's due lack of funds these days. You either fight for your living or munch smaller ones like EA has done. EA itself is these days doing very little themselves, like Infogrames. They use contractors and work as middlemen by being publishers of loads of titles, made by eg. Maxis.

The gaming industry has IMO become overheated. There's soon only giants doing business, while others are failing or don't get exposure. One of these smaller ones, but which still goes on, is Austrian Jowood Productions. They've published quite some games. They've survived, but hell, will they last in a business like this? I think we need more competition in the game distribution business. Online game download sales are just about to get popular, now as broadband is fast enough for game downloads. They should follow what the music industry did, especially Apple's iTunes.

The chain of distribution between the game studio and end-user should be cut down. The less middlemen, the better. Intriguing game ideas should get more time in the limelight. This could advocate developing good titles such as a "SMAC II" or "Col II", or anything great, which has its niche market. Also would love to see a new Panzer General.

What I'd really love to see, is a growth in a "games by gamers for gamers" movement, which would mean community based game development. Just like FreeCiv, Candle'Bre, etc. But with increased manpower and even some financial resources. People should realise that just like folks doing it for living in game studios, alternative games are made by real people, despite it's not for profit. But somekind of a contribution as cash or other valuables would certainly make a difference, by showing credit for what people do off-work.

My analogy: if you like Simon's Colonization, then why not give Simon a dollar or two, just like you give Infogreed for Civ III?

	22-04-2005 02:46									#33
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good points Rasbelin.

I wonder about how good this downloading games thing will actually be - it is quite an expensive business with all the associated support costs etc, and Steam didn't exactly go down that well?

Still with a few big publishers controlling most of the outlets i guess it is one of the main avenus for the middle size dev house.

And one encouraging sign has been to see a few Devs not sign their souls away(literaly!) to a big publishing house, but go for either part-selfpublishing or using a smaller label. I cant remember who it was exactly, but it seemed to me to make sense, especialy if you had IP you wanted to be able to keep in the longterm.

And i'd go for the 'games by gamers for gamers' label

I think if we could cut out the middlemen(seem to often be the publishers these days?), then games might get a whole lot cheaper to make too?

	22-04-2005 02:56									#34
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Marxis? Did they release Sim Communist?

The Sims - try to earn more money and buy more stuff, till you realize that youve been caught in a treadmill of false needs, designed to ensure that your labor can be exploited. When you realize this, you join the party, and WIN. (expansion pack is called Sims Red Cell, where you interact with comrades and plan revolutionary activities - new activities, styles, etc available for download at Partyline.com - characters who dont download promptly will be purged)

SimCity - Includes not just industry, commerce and residence, but class status of all sims, and crisis in industry as declining rate of exploitation leads to profit crisis.

	22-04-2005 12:58									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin The chain of distribution between the game studio and end-user should be cut down. The less middlemen, the better.

That's the main thing, and that's what Stardock's doing. In fact, the Internet is so good at getting rid of middleman I am curious as to why game developers didn't flock to it. Even artiste and writers use the Net to directly interact with fans/readers/etc.

quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Also would love to see a new Panzer General.

That wouldn't be half bad

	22-04-2005 16:30									#36
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Stardock is a good example.

1. It does work pretty well
2. It seems secure(haven't heard anything different)

Still i'm guessing its pretty expensive to run/upkeep, especialy if you don't have atleast as much software output as the mainstream?
And online security will always be a barrier to many people - there have been too many scare stories to convince the majority to jump in. Even banks get fished etc, so untill these issue's are completely resolved people(like me) will always be a bit hesitant i think.

but in the greater scheme of things, especialy in the current market setup, many Devs might well do better overall by going down this route. I think for me the biggest incentive would be to maintain 100% controll over my IP, most publishing deals sees the dev give over that IP to the publisher for future use. So all the creative work gets signed over in the standard contract. This seems crazy to me, and i'm surprised its taken this long for only a few Devs to start to wake up and see where this can leave them.

	22-04-2005 19:00									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski He's saying that gamers should stop making games for other gamers, but instead aim for the Sunday Gamer/Console market - I think his point was that depth and thought don't sell.

They don't sell to most idiots or children but there will always be a market for people who want to have to think a little in order to solve a game or to do well. Paradox is a case in point.

	22-04-2005 19:19									#38
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark The Sims - try to earn more money and buy more stuff, till you realize that youve been caught in a treadmill of false needs, designed to ensure that your labor can be exploited. When you realize this, you join the party, and WIN.

You know, that's exactly what the Sims is... only you can't win.

	22-04-2005 21:55									#39
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Still i'm guessing its pretty expensive to run/upkeep, especialy if you don't have atleast as much software output as the mainstream?

Not really, because every single computer game I know of has its own website. It's used to post news, screenshots, patches, new scenarios, etc.

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor And online security will always be a barrier to many people - there have been too many scare stories to convince the majority to jump in. Even banks get fished etc, so untill these issue's are completely resolved people(like me) will always be a bit hesitant i think.

It's phishing , and it works differently. Banks don't get phished, its the users. Phishing is very easy to defeat - several seconds of thinking would do.

	22-04-2005 21:56									#40
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd You know, that's exactly what the Sims is... only you can't win.

You win by realising that fact and stop playing the game.

	22-04-2005 22:42									#41
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd You know, that's exactly what the Sims is... only you can't win.

So it *is* a communism simulator after all.

	25-04-2005 15:17									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Not really, because every single computer game I know of has its own website. It's used to post news, screenshots, patches, new scenarios, etc. It's phishing , and it works differently. Banks don't get phished, its the users. Phishing is very easy to defeat - several seconds of thinking would do.

ok 'phishing' - is this like the how to pronounce 'pawned' thing?

And i think stuff like Stardock/Steam is slightly different from a regular game website? In terms of its security etc and probably needing people to constantly monitor hacker attempts etc? maybe i'm wrong on this, not really sure about how it all works

As another bit of news:

A friend went for a job(poorly paid) at Eidos a few months back, and now the company that bought Eidos(SCC or something?) is offering the same job but for even less money! progress

	26-04-2005 07:32									#43
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor And i think stuff like Stardock/Steam is slightly different from a regular game website? In terms of its security etc and probably needing people to constantly monitor hacker attempts etc? maybe i'm wrong on this, not really sure about how it all works

Nope. As far as I can tell Stardock is completely different from Steam. Stardock doesn't use any protection schemes (all completely useless anyway).

If Microsoft doesn't get broken into much I don't think they have a problem. There was a high profile attack against Microsoft some time ago when the attacker nicked some source code for "Longhorn," but that's about it. Considering the number of attacks they must face this is not really a serious problem.

Most of the break-ins are done against Wintel boxes and/or people who don't know what they are doing. 80% or more of successful break-ins are done by social engineering anyway.

	04-05-2005 14:08									#44
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Well from a few websites and the magazine Game that i get, it seems the industry is telling us we will have to pay more for so called 'next generation' games, prodominantly on consoles; but i wouldn't be surprised to see it filter into the pc market.
So how do people feel about paying around £60 for a AAA title over the £40 we now pay?
Is this the price of super graphics/progress?

I've seen figures for the new price range from around £50 - £80 for the uk and the same for the usa($50-$80), this might be enough to put me off this next generation altogether, but that view is tied into my dismay over most of the games that get released these days.
Still even if you're a graphics junky - £/$60 seems pretty steep for what is rapidly becoming throw away entertainment?

	04-05-2005 15:59									#45
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor So how do people feel about paying around £60 for a AAA title over the £40 we now pay?

Fat chance I'll pay that much.

Though we pay only HKD250 or so for them, l a 50% increase is a huge no-no for me.

	04-05-2005 17:08									#46
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well i wouldn't mind it if the games represented good value from my point of view. There are games(such as Civ,Xcom etc), that i would have happily paid more for at the time.
Still in our current generation, we have very few games that i end up finding good value even now - so adding another £20 on top of the buying price will most likely make me become a 'hire' instead of 'buy' gamer.
Which cant be good for the games companies, as i doubt i'm the only one thinking this?

	04-05-2005 19:13									#47
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I tend to agree. The price of some games has already stopped me from buying them (I won't spend more than 50 euros on a game without good reason). And even for a game that I had played a demo of and seemed addicting. But then I also knew its appeal would not last long so more than 50 is out of the question except for games that I know will be good (which is currently limited to Galciv2 - I won't even buy Civ4 just on the name and info we've got yet, however good it sounds).

	04-05-2005 21:47									#48
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Its funny really because i can understand that it will cost much more to produce these games, BUT i cant help but feel the industry may be shooting itself in the foot?
Its crazy as i want to give them my money and support gameing, but i dont really want to end feeling like someone's patsy all the time.
I was considering getting the new xbox to play Oblivion(i'm really only just interested in that title on this next generation so far). But its quite an outlay for what i expect will be one 'must have' game. And if this plan goes ahead the game will cost me of itself.

So we have this trend:

Hours of gameplay/replayability getting less + Games getting more expensive(heck you could buy a PS2+games for the price of one next gen game when they come out).
Are we really perceived as being this dumb a customer base?
Maybe i'm getting ants in my pants over a small detail, but imho the current price of PC games contibuted much to piracy, which in turn had its own nail to put in the coffin of modern PC game development.

Strange days

	04-05-2005 22:20									#49
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£60 will never work for games that last 10-15 hours.

	01-06-2005 20:19									#50
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Some fresh news to irritate the gamers amongst us - head over to OT http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...threadid=134426

Could this be gamers armagedon? or just another step forwards to better product?

Thanks to Aneeshm for bringing this up

Last edited by child of Thor on 01-06-2005 at 20:25

	02-06-2005 07:51									#51
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I don't think that's going to work, because of all the prior art.

	02-06-2005 13:52									#52
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Well, we have Britney Spears and The Sims. What more could anyone possibly want?

[Ted Striker]

Sim Spears? I'd hit it!

[/Ted Striker]

	17-06-2005 16:10									#53
	Got spare money?

1.Eidos has finaly been bought up by SCi.

2.Ubisoft after putting up resistance to an EA takeover, has been making sounds that if a big media/film company wanted to approach them they would be open to dialoge. I guess EA is still not invited?

source: Games(tm) magazine uk.

http://www.gamestm.co.uk/pm/1

And while not GI news its kinda fun:

Doris Self of Fort Lauderdale(usa) is out to reclaim the title for 'worlds oldest videogame champion'. The 80 year old first won the tilte in 1984 after becoming the world Q*Bert champion aged 58.

So 'old gamers' like me can feel a bit more spring in our step

Last edited by child of Thor on 17-06-2005 at 19:07

	17-06-2005 22:58									#54
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Hope I'm still gaming at 80.

	18-06-2005 08:42									#55
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Amongst other things...

	18-06-2005 12:10									#56
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Yes yes, and posting on Apolyton.

	18-06-2005 14:51									#57
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I'll be up to 100K by then.

	18-06-2005 14:57									#58
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All on topic?

	18-06-2005 15:00									#59
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I'm bound to slip occasionally.

	18-06-2005 15:09									#60
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more GI news:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/16/com...aming/index.htm

"NEW YORK (CNN/Money) – In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Atari was king of the video game mountain. Now it's barely the court jester."

I dont think its just Atari that this can be levelled at, ok they are one of the oldest names in games, but i can see other big name companies haveing the same kind of problems.

Not sure why this is, but maybe now with business firmly in control of games making its hard to consistantly match up good game designs/ideas within a very heavily money orientated system?

Not that making money and games should be mutualy exclusive, but it does seem often the end result we get as gamers could have been so much better if money hadn't had the final say on when a game ships, something like that. (i'm not 100% sure that i've got what i'm trying to get at in this paragraph ).