21-04-2005 01:58									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed He means the guests specifically invited by Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. I've heard Sean do that to his guests several times when he's not busy having callers patting him on the back.

My bad but the point still remains. A shows host determines much of the content. Similar to Matthews interview of John Oneil and Malkin.

	21-04-2005 02:02									#182
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Perhaps, but I don't think she's ever actually publically come out.

box lunches

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box lunches

	21-04-2005 02:03									#183
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She needs videos.

	21-04-2005 05:13									#184
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I'm not reading through four pages to see if this was posted.

It's interesting to note that Coulter is railing about the DA having dropped the charges against her two "attackers" when it was, in fact her and the arresting officer's failure to appear in court, despite having received plenty of reminders. Moreover, the charges can be refiled and the attourney intends to do so. But Ann doesn't let the facts get in the way of her whining...

	21-04-2005 05:34									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sure, sure, Che. Flying planes into the White house is a plan of the Republican party and not the act of a lunatic.

And what is the difference between this event and the pie-throwing? (except for the damage, of course)

	21-04-2005 07:46									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed Ned, Ned, Ned, you still haven't answered my questions! If someone was charging me in a public forum with a pie, odds are I'd prepare to defend myself. :shrugs: So I've answered two of yours, and you still haven't answered two of mine. Maybe more. In this thread alone! Even.

Q, Coulter is not a brave man like yourself. She is a woman.

Second, if someone is charging you in a public speaking forum, I am not sure that you would know in advance what his or her intentions were. If they had a gun or knife, defending yourself, rather than running, might be a very bad idea.

	21-04-2005 07:48									#187
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs I'm not reading through four pages to see if this was posted. It's interesting to note that Coulter is railing about the DA having dropped the charges against her two "attackers" when it was, in fact her and the arresting officer's failure to appear in court, despite having received plenty of reminders. Moreover, the charges can be refiled and the attourney intends to do so. But Ann doesn't let the facts get in the way of her whining...

Interesting

	21-04-2005 13:54									#188
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin That's another favorite FFZ style tactic. When you lose the arguement you claim the other side is froathing at the mouth.

I hadn't even made an argument much less lost one.

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I guess if facts aren't on your side then you have to take lame tactics like that. I'll I've said is Delay is a crook (he'll go to jail and you know it) and that the entire Republican leadership knew he was a crook but didn't care as long as he kept bringing in the dirty money. They were all sucking down his dirty money.

My side? I hope he's guilty and removed from office, the only reason that he isn't higher on my sh!t list is that there are so many deserving Pols still in office. That said, I don't know that he's actually guilty or that he'll be convicted much less actually do a Rostenkowski. Which is why he's being ripped by the Dems in the media for ethical lapses rather than by a prosecutor in a court of law. I'm not overwhelmed by the fact that his wife and daughter work for him for instance. That's really a weak charge. Now if he gets caught up in playing both sides against the middle to shake down Indians then I think he's finished.

As to what "the entire Republican leadership" knew, I don't think either of us has a serious claim that we could say one way or the other. Until he's hung out to dry by the facts however this claim is extremely weak. They knew that he was involved in activities for which he could not be prosecuted? So what?

	21-04-2005 13:57									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I was wrong about this bit and so are you. There are only one set of house rules and the majority party effectively gets to make them since you only need 50% plus one vote to approve them. The Republicans instituted this "if they are indicted then they're out" rule to show how clean they'd be in power. I guess that one didn't work out for them.

It would have worked out nicely if they'd managed to keep it.

	21-04-2005 18:13									#190
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quote: The Republicans instituted this "if they are indicted then they're out" rule to show how clean they'd be in power.

Or maybe they realized that taking someones office away from them because they get involved in a process that concludes people or completely inoccent very often was a bad idea?

Obviously they couldn't win with you regardless.

	21-04-2005 21:38									#191
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quote: Q, Coulter is not a brave man like yourself. She is a woman.

A wee bit sexist, are we?

I, a man, am nowhere near as brave of a person as say, my mother.

quote: Second, if someone is charging you in a public speaking forum, I am not sure that you would know in advance what his or her intentions were. If they had a gun or knife, defending yourself, rather than running, might be a very bad idea.

1. I wouldn't know what their intentions were. So what?
2. It would be a very public statement if I were injured. If I survived, injured, I'd have people's support for the heinous attack, bolstering my case. If I survived, unharmed, I'd have people's support for standing my ground. If I expired from my injures, I'd have people's support for not turning tail and running, and also for my untimely demise.

Win-win-win, with some wins being better than others. :shrug:

	21-04-2005 22:08									#192
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quote: My side? I hope he's guilty and removed from office, the only reason that he isn't higher on my sh!t list is that there are so many deserving Pols still in office. That said, I don't know that he's actually guilty or that he'll be convicted much less actually do a Rostenkowski. Which is why he's being ripped by the Dems in the media for ethical lapses rather than by a prosecutor in a court of law. I'm not overwhelmed by the fact that his wife and daughter work for him for instance. That's really a weak charge. Now if he gets caught up in playing both sides against the middle to shake down Indians then I think he's finished.

DeLay's not just being ripped by Democrats in the media, but by investigative journalism in mainstream papers. If you've followed, say, coverage from the Austin-American Statesman (a paper that endorsed Dear Leader in both '00 and '04), you'd see that. Paying his wife and daughter exorbitant sums is pretty damn minor compared to some of the other "ethical lapses" that he's had.

Travis County DA Ronnie Earle (you certainly won't see Abott or Gonzales go after him) is methodically building up a case against him. White collar cases are notoriously hard to prosecute, particularly when the suspect is the second-most powerful person in the US gov't. Hopefully, a Tom Craddick indictment will come soon, and DeLay after that.

DeLay's not only one of the most corrupt politicians around, but he also controls Congress. That should put him on the top of everyone's **** list.

	21-04-2005 23:41									#193
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Ramo, I have heard of some goings-on in Texas but have not seen the details, either here or on TV. What are the allegations in the criminal complaint?

	22-04-2005 00:45									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander It would have worked out nicely if they'd managed to keep it.

I agree. To bad the entire party leadership decided to change the rules to protect Tom Delay. When some of the party's rank and file objected to their leadership's policy of blocking action against Delay's illegal acts those people were purged from the Ethics Committee.

It wasn't a matter of managing to keep the stronger ethics rules it was a matter of the Republican leadership deliberately changing the ethics rules in order to obstruct the legal process and keep Tom Delay's river of dirty money flowing into Republican pockets.

	22-04-2005 00:49									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I agree. To bad the entire party leadership decided to change the rules to protect Tom Delay. When some of the party's rank and file objected to their leadership's policy of blocking action against Delay's illegal acts those people were purged from the Ethics Committee. It wasn't a matter of managing to keep the stronger ethics rules it was a matter of the Republican leadership deliberately changing the ethics rules in order to obstruct the legal process and keep Tom Delay's river of dirty money flowing into Republican pockets.

Oerdin, do you think local prosecutors could be politically motivated in filing charges against prominent politicians of the other party? Is this even a remote possibility?

BTW, the people who siezed Limbaugh's records are democrats and openly acknowledge they are pursuing Limbaugh because of politics.

	22-04-2005 01:14									#196
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Are you talking about the Delay case? I hadn't heard of any Rush Limbauh connection to the Delay case other then Limbaugh kept claiming it was all a leftist plot and didn't even speak about how Delay & the rest of the Republican leadership removed almost half of the Republicans on the ethics committee because they said they'd vote to start an investigation into Delay's illegal diversion of funds and his accepting illegal "gifts" (that's brides to everyone else) from Russian oil companies.

So are you talking about the Delay case (which we've all been discusing for pages) or are you attempting to change the subject to something different?

	22-04-2005 01:18									#197
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Delay accepted "illigal brides from Russian oil companies"?!?!

	22-04-2005 01:23									#198
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He got a free trip to Russia with his whole family and staff plus they put them all up in a very nice hotel and exclusive golf clubs and the works. It's illegal to accept such gifts, it has been for years, and everyone in Congress knows it especially the speaker of the house. He tried to cover it up but the dirty laundry came out and now Delay is in the death spiral of his political career.

There is also the issue that he was laundering millions and millions of dollars in order to avoid federal campaign finance laws. Since it is now illegal for special interests to give over a certain amount of "hard money" Delay arranged for them to give "soft money" to the RNC which then got laundered through several accounts and the exact same original amounts of hard money would end up in the accounts of various Republican candidates. I suspect this is the one he'll go to jail for.

	22-04-2005 01:35									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin He got a free trip to Russia with his whole family and staff plus they put them all up in a very nice hotel and exclusive golf clubs and the works. It's illegal to accept such gifts, it has been for years, and everyone in Congress knows it especially the speaker of the house. He tried to cover it up but the dirty laundry came out and now Delay is in the death spiral of his political career. There is also the issue that he was laundering millions and millions of dollars in order to avoid federal campaign finance laws. Since it is now illegal for special interests to give over a certain amount of "hard money" Delay arranged for them to give "soft money" to the RNC which then got laundered through several accounts and the exact same original amounts of hard money would end up in the accounts of various Republican candidates. I suspect this is the one he'll go to jail for.

Oerdin, on the Limbaugh thing, I just gave it as an example of a politically motivate witch hunt by a prosecutor.

I have asked for details about any criminal complaint filed against Delay, and have yet to receive an answer.

	22-04-2005 02:24									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Yeah, the man was a commie upset at her changing her position on supporting the NV war effort against her own country.

I suppose it won't surprise anyone that Ned is totally wrong yet again. CNN is reporting that the guy who spit on Jane Fonda was a Vietnam War vet who didn't like her anti-war position and her trips to North Vietnam.

I suppose in Ned's world he just had to be a commie or some type of evil leftist because in the Nedaverse rightists don't do things like this. In any event the spiting rightist has nothing to do with the Republican party just as the pie throwing guy doesn't have anything to do with the Democratic party. That won't stop Ned making "OMG! DEMOCRATS ARE ALL ATTACKING POOR ANN CAULTER!!!" threads but I atleast wanted to side with fairness.

	22-04-2005 02:33									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Oerdin, on the Limbaugh thing, I just gave it as an example of a politically motivate witch hunt by a prosecutor. I have asked for details about any criminal complaint filed against Delay, and have yet to receive an answer.

As always the process to charge a sitting Congressman is a long one. The first step is to for the House Ethics Committee to do an investigation which Delay and the party leadership successfully bocked a month ago. The press got a hold of the details and now the Republican party is backing down.

NPR's Morning Edition had a special this morning in which the Republican & Democratic leadership have are negotiating on how to proceed. The Republicans are saying they'll allow the investigation to go forward but only if the rules are changed so that they can block any future investigations against their members. Democrats are saying they want the bipartisan 35 year old rules to be reinstated (Delay had them removed a month or two ago to stall his charges).

In the end the Republicans will back down because the press and the public are watching them and Republican members of the house are tripping over themselves to tell CNN how they want the old rules put back in place. As soon as that happens Delay is toast.

	22-04-2005 02:51									#202
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Current and past scandals of Tom Delay are listed below. There is a whole lot of "gifts" which Tom has been collecting which he simply forgot (in his words) to declare as he legally was required to do. There value is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

-An investigation by the Justice Department showed that Tom DeLay accepted a trip financed by the Korea-U.S. Exchange Council, breaking House rules that prohibit accepting travel expenses from "a registered lobbyist or agent of a foreign principal."

quote: -Tom DeLay claims that a 1997 trip to Moscow (where he met with the Russian Prime Minister) was arranged and paid for by a nonprofit public policy organization. But people who knew about the arrangements claim that the trip was actually arranged by lobbyists and funded by a mysterious company registered in the Bahamas that may have served as a front for Russian companies with ties to Russian security forces. -Tom DeLay participated in a $70,000 expenses-paid trip to London and Scotland in 2000 that sources said was indirectly financed in part by an Indian tribe and gambling services company lobbying Congress. -Tom DeLay invited donors to share a skybox with him at a Three Tenors concert, a skybox paid for by super lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who is currently under investigation by the Senate. Just two months after the concert, DeLay voted against gambling legislation that Abramoff was lobbying against. The skybox tickets were worth thousands of dollars, and DeLay never reported the gift.

Then there's the half million dollars he funneled to family members from his Political Action Commitee. Legally, you're supposed to declare such money given to family members even if your family members are working for you because it takes campaign donations and puts them directly into the pocket of your family members. Old Tom just forgot to mention it.

The current Grand Jury Investigation is coming from what is being called the "The TRMPAC Scandal" in the papers. In Texas it is illegal for corporations to donate to political campaigns, however, Tom Delay found a way to funnel funds through the RNC to individual Republican law makers in Texas. That's why the state of Texas is now going after him.

Before Federal charges are filed for doing similiar type activities in Federal elections a house ethics committee investigation must be completed. Of course the Republican leadership is stone walling. Luckily, this will soon end as the rank and file members are melting away from Delay faster then rats on a sinking ship.

quote: Knowing that he faced investigation for a growing pile of scandals, Tom DeLay and the GOP House leadership purged the Ethics Committee of Republicans -- including Chairman Joel Hefley (R-CO) -- who weren't willing to overlook charges against DeLay, replacing them with members loyal to the leadership. They then changed the Committee rules to make it more difficult to begin investigations. Democrats on the Committee have refused to take any action in protest until the rules are restored.

There is at least four times in the recent past where Tom Delay has been officially repremanded by the ethics committee for unethical behavior and or abuse of his ofice but those don't really matter to the current case. Soon Republicans won't be able to block the legal process any more and then Delay is finished.

	22-04-2005 03:09									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I suppose it won't surprise anyone that Ned is totally wrong yet again. CNN is reporting that the guy who spit on Jane Fonda was a Vietnam War vet who didn't like her anti-war position and her trips to North Vietnam. I suppose in Ned's world he just had to be a commie or some type of evil leftist because in the Nedaverse rightists don't do things like this. In any event the spiting rightist has nothing to do with the Republican party just as the pie throwing guy doesn't have anything to do with the Democratic party. That won't stop Ned making "OMG! DEMOCRATS ARE ALL ATTACKING POOR ANN CAULTER!!!" threads but I atleast wanted to side with fairness.

Oerdin, I think you failed to see the post where I indicated that this post of mine was a joke. You guys are really slow on the uptake these days.

	22-04-2005 03:18									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Last year, they hit Nader, then tried to hit Coulter. When the Democrat assaulters were arrested, attacks stopped for awhile. But they quickly resumed several weeks ago when a fellow-Democrat prosecutor dropped charges. Since their, three conservative speekers have been assaulted. What gives? Why are Democrats, or at least, some Democrats, behaving like communists and anarchists? Here is Ann Coulter's column on this.

Well, then there's always spittin' tobacky juice on Hanoi Jane.

I'd bet that ol' boy waren't a Democrat.

I'd still buy him a drink any time.

	22-04-2005 03:21									#205
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Well, there does appear to be a lot of smoke.

BTW, do you believe people should have a right to fair trial before they are hanged?

	22-04-2005 03:24									#206
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quote: Oerdin, do you think local prosecutors could be politically motivated in filing charges against prominent politicians of the other party? Is this even a remote possibility?

Ronnie Earle has prosecuted four times as many Democratic politicans as Republican politicians. There's absolutely no basis to say that his investigation is politically motivated. Absolutely none.

quote: Ramo, I have heard of some goings-on in Texas but have not seen the details, either here or on TV. What are the allegations in the criminal complaint?

The big things - what he'll be indicted for - are for laundering some corporate contributions through the RNC to funnel to Texas campaigns, and using other corporate contributions for non-adminstrative expenses. Both felonies according to Texas' already lax campaign finance laws.

	22-04-2005 03:26									#207
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quote: BTW, do you believe people should have a right to fair trial before they are hanged?

Yes. I also believe in not asking retarded questions.

	22-04-2005 03:27									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, there does appear to be a lot of smoke. BTW, do you believe people should have a right to fair trial before they are hanged?

As Judge Roy Bean put it, every man's entitled to a fair trial and a fair hanging.

If it comes to a criminal trial, you can bet ol' DeLay will have lawyering out the wazoo, he ain't exactly a poor working stiff relying on a public defender.

When it comes to ethics questions, then elected politicians in a nationally prominent leadership role should be held to extremely high standards for any matters relevant to the conduct of their office, regardless of party.

	22-04-2005 03:31									#209
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Well, if he is actually indicted by a Grand Jury, I think he will step aside regardless of the rules. I think his party will insist.

However the heat coming from the Democrat side suggests that they want to get Delay regardless of the merits of the charges.

	22-04-2005 03:34									#210
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Given his past violations, he shouldn't even be in a leadership position, especially for a party that likes to harp on moral values. The current charges are just icing on an already large cake.