20-04-2005 07:19									#1
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http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...threadid=132397

Chins up, chaps.

Let's give 'em what for and when we don't have any more to give, let us finish with grace whether in victory or defeat.

Pass me a portion of victory, please.

	20-04-2005 08:22									#2
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Please no public posts at all until we've decided what to say in here.

	20-04-2005 08:25									#3
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The shared victory is cheese. Can't believe MZ would go for something like that. It's UN cheese^2.

	20-04-2005 08:39									#4
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I think a lot of people just want an end to it. It's been sooo long. Double for some of us.

How many seriously involved people are left from the beginning so long ago?

I agree it's not the 'right way to go', but I understand the sentiment. My guess would be they were paranoid of us pulling a Lego on them.

	20-04-2005 08:48									#5
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One possible approach to the combined victory idea might be to sniff distainfully while pointing out that it would take two superpowers to go pooftah to take us out.

Or simply post links to large images of blocks of cheese whenever the topic is brought up.

	20-04-2005 08:51									#6
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Someone could photoshop an award to ND and GoW into this image and we could present them with their 'trophy'.

	20-04-2005 09:03									#7
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I apologise if I may seem flippant. Some few individuals have put a lot into this endeavour in current and recent times. My hat is off to the you, Aeson, DeepO, CH, and others for the magnificent work you have done.

My attitude is coloured by the knowledge that we could lose in a heartbeat at anytime. Still, I hold out some small hope that we may at least get our digs in, if not win through entirely.

To cut to the chase, you are our leader, Aeson. You've earned it with the effort you have put in and the skill you have demonstrated. Show the way, and I will follow your lead.

	20-04-2005 10:01									#8
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Nothing wrong with some good humor. I'm a bastard though and wouldn't share any with ND and GoW.

We will probably have all our cities in disorder this next turn. GoW will be giving us some negative WW, but we may lose that due to units lost to GoW. If RP builds a city, we might have some cities stay productive though due to negative WW.

It sounds like GoW has nukes. We will have 3-700g, not sure how PBEM turns work in regards to commerce and disorder. We would need 1575g to attempt a tech steal from GoW. I just checked last save, and we have roughly 1600g in improvements we can sell. So we can try to steal Space Flight, and leave at least a couple Factories in place.

	20-04-2005 10:26									#9
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The gloves are coming off now. I won't be posting any comments in public, no need. We either make a good account of ourselves or we don't.

I suspect that deep down they were afraid that we could pull off something, but are not afraid of ND.

Those two and Lego had the best land and that is hard to offset vs humans.

I am reminded of Casey Stengel's remark about another HoF baseball manager, John Mcgraw. He said he could take his'en and beat your'en and then take your'en and beat his'en.

I doubt that those teams would have fared this well, if places were changed.

	20-04-2005 10:53									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Let the search for best anagrams for "Glory of War Neu Demogryptica" begin...

http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/

(Keep some of it out and you can generally get a low enough character count for it to go through.)

	20-04-2005 12:04									#11
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So far the most fitting I can come up with is:

gory import of a nuclear wedgy

other good ones:

wimpy glory of routed carnage
glory of countrywide rampage
glory of anemic warped yogurt
glory of dreamy wagon picture
glory of warped country image

Last edited by Aeson on 20-04-2005 at 12:10

	20-04-2005 12:12									#12
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Here's a possible dreamy wagon:

Last edited by Aeson on 26-04-2005 at 12:24

	20-04-2005 13:15									#13
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There doesn't seem much more point in playing on than there does in a games of chess where checkmate is announced.

	20-04-2005 16:21									#14
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Can we still invade ND?

	20-04-2005 16:59									#15
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Bah, we're gone, no doubt about that. If you count the tiles, the ND-GoW alliance probably has reached domination already. Maybe our public post should reflect that in a way.

As to how to continue: stealing techs looks fine by me, just for the fun of blowing something up. But in the end, there will be no escape. We can perhaps play extremely well and 'win' 1 or 2 more turns before being eradicated.

My question is, do we want to continue? Purely as a style exercise I can imagine it, to pull off one or two nice strategic moves. Otherwise, we could also acknowledge defeat, and post something decent and honorable. Either way, I'm fine.

DeepO

	20-04-2005 17:02									#16
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yeah, the game is gone (it was gone, IMO, when Toledo 2 was breached, all those months ago).

I just want to wreak some tanks. Even if they are our own...

	20-04-2005 17:05									#17
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I just read the battle report (didn't before last post), and frankly I don't see a way of even pulling off a few nice moves anymore. I suggest we just admit defeat, and finish the game. It was fun, but it's over.

DeepO

	20-04-2005 17:10									#18
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I think it depends on how many Marines, tanks and Trannies we have left. Other than that, I give us 2 turns, max, to live.

	20-04-2005 23:16									#19
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We have most of our units left still. I think we should play it out. It will be quick enough.

If we still have enough improvements, I say we try and steal Space Flight. If it works, try everything to get a Tactical or two onto Nuclear Subs. We might have 3-4 turns before GoWND has enough nuclear weapons to have hit all our cities, but even a direct strike doesn't wipe out a build.

In the meantime, we load up everything we can onto Transports, and rely on pillaging roads with those we can't carry and Conscript units to slow GoWND's advance as much as possible. We should be able to get our fleet into position to land, and if we have a couple Tacticals, actually pose a threat of breaking through the next turn. If GoWND has committed too many of their units to Stormia, we could do some damage if we aren't spotted (admittedly a long shot). If we are spotted, the game will be over. If it comes to the Settler crash bug disallowing GoWND from nuking our fleet we admit defeat.

	20-04-2005 23:46									#20
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Oh, and we can rush Tacticals and some Nuclear Subs with disbanded conscripts that we draft. So if our tech steal works, we can have Tacticals 2 turns later. Or rather we should wait a turn for the tech steal (if financially possible), move a Worker onto the Uranium this turn, hope GoWND doesn't re-nuke the Uranium, and then we build a colony the next turn, switch to the Tactical builds, and rush them.

Even if GoWND nukes the cities we build the Tacticals in, the builds won't be affected right?

	21-04-2005 00:15									#21
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apart from the fact that all of the tiles are altered, no.

	21-04-2005 00:22									#22
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Ok, so we'll just rush them entirely and then as long as GoWND doesn't capture them the builds will complete.

	21-04-2005 00:28									#23
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I should point out that this has only ever happened t me in C3C, so it might be different here (and in any case, this game seems to have its' own rules)

	21-04-2005 00:30									#24
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The builds will not be damaged and they need three hits to kill all units in the area. Typically MI and MA's will lose 2 hps on the firsts strike. Drop to 1 hp on the second and bye bye on the third.

You tend to see lessor units die on 1st or 2nd strike. We cannot send in workers to repair roads, unless we know they will not hit us againt for two turns. One for workers to get in place and one to builld road and maybe rails if yo have enough workers.

You can then add workers to the cities, if you do not need the workers and do not expect another strike soon.

Structures can be lost, but I never really figured out how that works.

	21-04-2005 04:55									#25
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* asleepathewheel checks in for the first time in a long while...



Great job guys, its a sad way to go, really pathetic way of ending it for the Bob civs, but if that's what they want as a victory, then good for them, i guess.

You guys did a fantastic job from start to finish. Considering what you accomplished with what you started with and faced throughout the game, it really is a victory in terms of teamwork, strategy, and micromanagement.

I've been gone the last 6 months due to a work, but I've been popping in here and watching the progression. to all of you.

It seems like yesterday that Grog was murdered...

	21-04-2005 06:02									#26
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It seems like years ago that grog was even heard from. Hope he is well.

	21-04-2005 06:45									#27
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I say that one of us at least calls them about about the ridiculous team victory. It's one thing when that is a defined goal, as in AU 602, and a very different thing when two teams declare it to be applicable at the very end of such a long, complex, and hard-fought game.

	21-04-2005 11:03									#28
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Why bother to point out the obvious? MZ knows it it is cheese and that is why he attempted the premptive story.

	21-04-2005 14:43									#29
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I agree, nothing to be gained by bringing it up publicly. There is no argument about what happened, so everyone can decide for themselves how to view it. If we were to speak out against it, it should be to Trip. (Hi Trip...)

This game is (for all intents and purposes) over, but I don't share GoWND's view that they have achieved victory. That is all it is, their personal view. Until a victory condition is achieved by a team, or all the opposing teams declare one as winner, there is no winner of this game IMO.

Personally speaking, I would never get involved in another FFA (or non-XvX) with members of ND or GoW. Alliances and gangbangs are a part of FFA and I have no problem with being on the receiving end of them, but teams modifying victory conditions mid-game to induce them is not acceptable IMO.

	21-04-2005 16:36									#30
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I have to agree with Aeson.

Maybe in PtWDGII, Latin Lover, MAST, Sunshine and Tabemono should jointly proclaim victory (okay, maybe we don't quite have the 66% land and population requirement, but we could get it in a co-ordinated effort). It would seem pretty pointless though, and not a little boring. It seems to defy the whole point of having seperate teams - only one gets to win.

I can't really believe that ND and GoW would be happy with 'victory' on those terms. But if they are, then the game is over.

Why don't we offer to sign an agreement with them to split the win three ways - crushing RP and Vox as well . Or at least post publically to that effect, just for fun.