01-09-2005 17:32									#181
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That is truly amazing!

Are there any more of these unposted miracles around?

	01-09-2005 20:27									#182
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling The best Mustang unit ever....

Fairline's P51 is one of his best, but that title belongs to a '65 Mustang!

	01-09-2005 20:28									#183
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I have this de Havilland Vampire for AE II, if Harry needs it. It is a composite of Fairline's Meteor and P-38, and I had very little to do with it, but here it is anyway.

Attachment: typhoon vampire.png
This has been downloaded 66 time(s).

Last edited by typhoon on 02-09-2005 at 15:01

	01-09-2005 21:02									#184
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Very nice

quote: Originally posted by Boco Fairline's P51 is one of his best, but that title belongs to a '65 Mustang!

A Shelby GT350 or GT500 would do the trick. Best looking American car ever IMHO

	01-09-2005 22:41									#185
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quote: Originally posted by typhoon I have this de Havilland Vampire for AE II, if Harry needs it. It is a composite of Fairline's Meteor and P-38, and I had very little to do with it, but here it is anyway.

Cool! Thank you Typhoon

	01-09-2005 22:44									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Sarsstock Well, in an attempt to be even closer I've lengthened the fuselage so it can be tappered off more, blended the wings into the fuselage more than in earlier attempts and changed the angles on the wings outer edges.

Even better!

	02-09-2005 01:39									#187
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Apologies to Sarsstock for what seems like a horrible attempt at upstaging - I started this Sabre as soon as I saw Harry's list and before I knew Sarsstock was making one himself; it's my favourite early jet and I had to have a go....

Sarsstock's is smaller and more useable in a scenario I think; I got carried away with the size a bit He also got there first so I think his should be used. No harm in posting this though in case anyone is making a Korean War scenario with oversized units

Attachment: fairline sabre.gif
This has been downloaded 105 time(s).

	02-09-2005 02:23									#188
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Well, there's no shame in being beaten by the best. My god, even your Sabre's shadow looks better than my attempt. Gareth I don't think Harry would mind the size of yours, I think he wanted to make use of the bigger ToT unit slot.

You really should post a ToT tutorial on airplane making if you have the time man, it would really bennifit the forum .

	02-09-2005 02:33									#189
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Both of you have done an outstanding job!

	02-09-2005 02:50									#190
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yeah, definitely both are really good. It's like goodness and hey! more goodness!

	02-09-2005 09:18									#191
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Mind-blowing!

The jet age has begun in the Scenario League!

	02-09-2005 11:44									#192
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This version has been resized to 95%. Looks a little less ridiculous.

Attachment: fairline sabre 95pc.gif
This has been downloaded 86 time(s).

Last edited by fairline on 02-09-2005 at 11:50

	02-09-2005 12:13									#193
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quote: Originally posted by typhoon I have this de Havilland Vampire for AE II, if Harry needs it. It is a composite of Fairline's Meteor and P-38, and I had very little to do with it, but here it is anyway.

Again, this is a new unit, drawn by you. Why are you putting someone else's sig on it?

	02-09-2005 14:47									#194
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Amazing Sabre...

quote: Again, this is a new unit, drawn by you. Why are you putting someone else's sig on it?

Sorry to disappoint mate, but I've never drawn a unit in my entire life, new or otherwise. As stated, the above Vamp was assembled together from various planes by Gareth (specifically the Gloster Meteor and P-38 Lightning.) General rule of thumb for me is the less I modify from the original, the better it looks.

A sterling example below is this P-80 below. The base unit was originally by Jimmy, slightly improved by Curt and then fitted with bits of fairline's aircraft. The drop tanks come from Harry's Panther. As can be seen I have very little to do with each unit aside from pilfering and putting together the pieces, and of course f***ing it up along the way.

	02-09-2005 15:59									#195
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Truly, we are not worthy!



I tell thee, all these class units are almost enough to make me begin work on Soviet Steel ToT!

	02-09-2005 16:25									#196
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Mhm, Curt, would these infantry chaps make you actually make that scenario

Attachment: cold war infantry sample #1.png
This has been downloaded 74 time(s).

	02-09-2005 16:33									#197
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Holy Christ, those jets are awesome! The detail is amazing

	02-09-2005 17:04									#198
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i still have regular civ2 (with fantastic worlds, of course), but every time i see somebody write ToT, i think of "Time on Target", where you have a whole bunch of artillery pieces in different locations fire in a certain order, so that all of the rounds arrive on the target at the same time...

	02-09-2005 17:21									#199
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@ cousarmy:

@ Curt: I´d have some more for you ... this one´s for MGE - though I guess you know I could come up with some ToT infantry fellers too ...

Attachment: german infantry.gif
This has been downloaded 70 time(s).

	02-09-2005 18:26									#200
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Bravo Steph

Resized the Vampire, to put it into proportion with the others.

Attachment: typhoon vampire v2.png
This has been downloaded 65 time(s).

Last edited by typhoon on 02-09-2005 at 18:38

	02-09-2005 19:00									#201
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quote: Originally posted by typhoon Sorry to disappoint mate, but I've never drawn a unit in my entire life, new or otherwise. As stated, the above Vamp was assembled together from various planes by Gareth (specifically the Gloster Meteor and P-38 Lightning.) General rule of thumb for me is the less I modify from the original, the better it looks. A sterling example below is this P-80 below. The base unit was originally by Jimmy, slightly improved by Curt and then fitted with bits of fairline's aircraft. The drop tanks come from Harry's Panther. As can be seen I have very little to do with each unit aside from pilfering and putting together the pieces, and of course f***ing it up along the way.

Everyone works from someone else's previous work. People cut and paste parts of different units all the time, making adjustments and modifications, but producing a new peice of unit art. But they don't put someone else's initials on it - it's misleading and it's wrong.

	02-09-2005 19:27									#202
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Well all this debate about unit sig's aside, Curt I hope you can someday start up a ToT version of Soviet Steel. Its still one of my favorite scenario's, and the expanded graphic possibilities in ToT would make it even better my friend .

Maybe I can employ ever last ounce of skill in my arsenal to make up a Mig-15 if it will help convince you to start the project up.... once your done with Tyrany of the Dalek's of course.

Last edited by Sarsstock on 02-09-2005 at 19:34

	02-09-2005 19:36									#203
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quote: Everyone works from someone else's previous work. People cut and paste parts of different units all the time, making adjustments and modifications, but producing a new peice of unit art. But they don't put someone else's initials on it - it's misleading and it's wrong.

I'm acknowledging my sources- not to do so is even more more misleading and wrong. It implies that the work is wholely original when it is clearly not.

	02-09-2005 19:57									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Sarsstock Well all this debate about unit sig's aside, Curt I hope you can someday start up a ToT version of Soviet Steel. Its still one of my favorite scenario's, and the expanded graphic possibilities in ToT would make it even better my friend . Maybe I can employ ever last ounce of skill in my arsenal to make up a Mig-15 if it will help convince you to start the project up.... once your done with Tyrany of the Dalek's of course.

Cheers, dude!

I reckon a ToT Sov-Steel redux is a definite, this time with a giant Euro map!

So if you want to make any Soviet jets, or even what-if units - I would be honoured to use them!

	02-09-2005 20:04									#205
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I'm sorry, but you have a misconception about what constitutes "acknowledgement of sources". You're not stealing anyone's work here. This is all public domain stuff. The use of sigs on unit art is a convention that we have developed to acknowledge the ORIGINAL work of someone else when we use it in our scenarios. That's all.

If you simply put a new paint job on someone else's plane, I can maybe see retaining his or her sig. But if you make modifications of any significance, it's your work and only your sig should appear on the unit.

	02-09-2005 20:27									#206
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I'm not sure where I stand on this aspect of the unit signature debate. I've always advocated artists having they're signatures attatched to they're work, even if major alterations have been made to they're work by other artists the fact remains that it was the original artists work on which the new alterations were made to.

I suppose I'm leaning towards Typhoon on this one, but I'm curious what Gareth has to say on this issue since its more often than not his work upon which these alterations are made.

	02-09-2005 20:42									#207
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Well, I don't want to muddy this thread, seeing as we already have a few that deal with this sort of topic:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=132574

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=133422

Anyways, why not create a small icon that will sit next to the signature of the intial creator signifying that the unit is not orginal work, but modified?

That way we'd know the original author did not modify the unit before us, but that the modifier used some of the original work. This way personal preference as to the quality of the unit will be directed at the modifier and not the innocent creator.

	02-09-2005 20:50									#208
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Yeah, why not? Any suggestions as to how this authentic icon would look?

	02-09-2005 20:58									#209
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I suggest a simple star, 3 pixels high, 3 pixels wide, using the pink transparency.

	02-09-2005 21:05									#210
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh Everyone works from someone else's previous work.

ahem

quote: I'm sorry, but you have a misconception about what constitutes "acknowledgement of sources". You're not stealing anyone's work here. This is all public domain stuff. The use of sigs on unit art is a convention that we have developed to acknowledge the ORIGINAL work of someone else when we use it in our scenarios. That's all.

Not sure if I agree with this entirely. 'Modification' can take a hell of a lot of different forms. The planes that Typhoon has posted recently owe very little to the donors he started from and you are probably right - there is no need to acknowledge the 'originator' since he has effectively created a significantly different graphic. On the other hand there are some who post here (no names mentioned ) who do nothing more than cut, paste and recolour, then slap their own sig on the 'new' graphic.

It's probably not worth getting too hung up on, but I think it's a courtesy to give a nod to the guy who spent hours drawing something which has subsequently been modified if the source graphic is still clearly recognisable in the new graphic. This is probably a little too subjective a judgement to make I guess.....