01-05-2005 15:30									#181
	Historical meeting Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Has anybody mentioned the historical meeting between Lien Chan, chairman of KMT, and Hu, that took place on April 29?

	01-05-2005 15:33									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger A lot of people = a small number of Westerners, esp. those in or from the US. If you ask somebody like Lee Kuan Yew, he could told you something completely different.

Really, I haven't spoken to many westerners outside this forum about it. But if Lee Kuan Yew is the sole expert, I'll concede.

	01-05-2005 16:48									#183
	Re: Historical meeting Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Has anybody mentioned the historical meeting between Lien Chan, chairman of KMT, and Hu, that took place on April 29?

No.

	03-05-2005 13:40									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I don't care what they call themselves Franky. The Chinese goverment is **** because of what it does to it's people. You can talk all you want about what you think others think but it doesn't make it so. Again my personal feelings have nothing to do with what I think of the CCP but I suspect those who side with China against the US have a lot of personal reasons for doing so. It was you who kept talking about developing without American influience as if Japan and S Korea were American colonies. We face stiff competition from both countries which is good but I don't see how you get that their situation is somehow worse than China's unless of course its your bias coming out. Apparently you don't think its so great cause your so eager for China to take it all over. If Taiwan has a great goverment and they enjoy more social freedoms, then why in the hell would they want to take a step back and what is more interesting why would YOU want them to just to satisfy the dreams of beaucrats in the CCP? Can you tell me that Franky? Is it so important to make them feel better about themselves at the expense of the Taiwanese? So the Ukraine goes back to Russia, Greece goes back to the Ottomons, Germany gets all its terrorties back. Lithauana gets restored to its former glory, the Scandanvian countries get all scrambled up again? Can you start to see why your little arguement starts to get ****ed up? And what exactly is China's complete self? Where do you Franky the wise draw China's borders? More importantly where does the CCP think China's borders should be. One thing I'd like to know, are the Chinese so damn depressed about their stature in the world that only through expansion can they be appeased. I thought only the Russians had low national self esteem issues. Are the Chinese depressed to? Should we restore Rome why we are in the business of easing National Pride issues?

Sorry for the late rebuttal. AGAIN, while my loyalty does still remain behind Sprayber, I must protest my beliefs...

1st point: Who are we to say that the Taiwanese are 100 percent against China? Of course, if they did a poll and that poll said that they were against reunification, my point would be moot. I still argue that the Taiwanese governments foundations are inextricably tied to mainland China.

2nd point: Conceded.

3rd point: While I would never doubt the S. Korean progress as well as the Japanese progress over the past 50 years, to deny that a large part of the progress has been in a humongous part due to the American military's influece would be an injustice to both country's. Both Japan and S. Korea are seen as "bastions of Democracy in Asia" to the Western world. Okinawa for instance was a major player in the the Central Asian conflict. While, of course, to say that Japan was America's little "dog", to deny America's influece on Japan over the past 50 or so years would be crazy.

4th point: Conceded.

5th point: Huh, damn...at least you understand where I'M coming from. And I understand what you are thinking. Of course pride is never a matter for the justification of present actions...it's the fact that other's NOW understand WHY that certain nation is doing what it is doing NOW. Point conceded.

6th point: While I have conceded previously related points, I will not concede the idea that country's now act because of their current actions NOW. Of course, China's past wrongs by the Western Country's doesn't justify it's seemingly retributional attitiude now. But to just say, the past is in the past...wouldn't do justice to how things are they are now. To not acknowledge our country's past injustices and to ignore them would just alienate ourselves from China's current actions. Again, while it might seem like I'm a Chinese sympathizer...I support the American government to the end. But to not understand why China is acting the way it is and to just say they are "evil" is wrong.

7th point: My point was that Commodore Perry and the Opium Wars were due to external influences, the Cultural Revolution and famine are due to internal influences. For Commodore Perry, America was forcing Japan to open itself up to foreign trade. For the Opium Wars, China was forced to accept opium from the UK. The C.R. was a purely (and STUPID) facet done by internal Chinese matters.

8th point: Of course. But to just deny any nations current attitude to it's current attitude towards so-and-so nation would be total madness. The foundations of ANY nation (IMHO) can totally explain their current attitude NOW. Ok, The US and the UK hated each other then, but now, we are like the best of friends. Of course, like you said, no nation is perfect, but to just ignore a certain nations foundations is crazy. I personally believe that any nations current attitude can be explained by it's history.

9th point: Confused...but conceded.

10th point: explained in previous statements.

11th point: Again, my rebuttal is in my 8th point.

I really do not hope you take this personally because, like I stated before, I respect you above almost everyone else here, and hope that this is not a personal matter but more of intellectual argumentation...

	03-05-2005 21:14									#185
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

According to reports I've seen, both the leader of Taiwan and the party chairman of the KMT called for talks between Taiwan and China. I don't know whether China has formally responded; but I read that there was a Chinese precondition to all prior such overtures: Taiwan had to agree that it was part of China and not independent.

If this concession could lead to peace talks between the two countries, why not?

	03-05-2005 23:21									#186
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quote: Originally posted by aneeshm Mob rule , as I define it , is when people , using numbers as the only argument , attempt to have their ideas imposed on others , while infringing the rights of said others ( also applies to power without responsibility ) . For example , a person voting for a tax increase for an income bracket of which he is not a member is , in my opinion , a constituent of such a mob ( the "there are more of us than of you , so we get to take your money" mentality ) .

Elitists: