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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:28
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ANGELS
ANGELS
ANGELS
ANGELS
I just don't think anyone likes the Angels as much as I do...
And anyway...
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Angels fans: how do you deal with the Probe rating wrap-around? |
Both my idealogy and playing style has me do democracy, free market, knowledge, and eudaimonia...
One reason I like the angels is because I love doing knowledge but hate having negative probe...while probe is probably not that important of an advantage, I just can't stand having negative probe...don't know why...
With the free covert ops you get +2 probe...+3 isn't really worth striving for, because you can just build the hunterseeker algorithm...true, it can be bypassed in SMAX, but it is extremely difficult, and impossible in the early game...
As for you Hive fans...SUPPORT THE FREE MARKET!!!!!!!!
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Senethro
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Pah, noobiversity clearly in the lead now. I don't like them just be cause, like the Hive, its nearly impossible to play them incorrectly. While the Hive is just a cancer that ICSs across the land powered by +3 growth and Industry the university is "Generic Faction +1". They can do everything, and do it with faster research than anyone else.
(Having said that, I use all 5 of the top voted factions shamelessly. With a little bit of Deidre on the side)
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Senethro
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I once had a funny Police state/Planned/knowledge/creche game with the Spartans using ICS. That was a rover rampage and a half... Other than that, I've not seen much Planned lately.
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Sebed
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaos Theory
The real downside of Planned is that you can't run Free Market at the same time. |
it's true indeed...
I voted for Morgans - i really like them and i'm able to play them well...
but i must agree that best choices is Hive or Drones...
especially Drones have a good adventage to be more flexible than Hive - it's easier to change your style of play if you play Drones...
and i reallly don't understand why Uni has gained so many votes - it's really difficult faction to play especially if you play against experienced players - you are piece of cake which is usually taken by the faster opponnent...
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Ka Plewy
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quote:
but just imagine that Hive or Drone gets this techs at the same time (i don't care if it's simple trade or stealing) - they can easly outnumber Uni military units and result of war is well-known... |
That will not happen, very often (if at all) that another faction besides Morgan (Roze, too, I guess) is sitting at or near Zak's tech level. Early production of Hive & Drones can be counteracted by Uni's getting to IA and crawlers. Depending on map size, of course.
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i'm little confused - i thought FM goes before Wealth, but perhaps i make terrible mistakes - who knows |
It does, but a good Uni player under directed research and a popping a nearby monolith or being on a river will get to AI by earlier than 2140. He's recommending the early switch to FM, I think, because since you won't be a large empire by the time you discover it, you'll be able to handle drone problems, and you'll vastly improve your research rate. I could be mistaken, though.
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it's true, but it's kind of universal true - no matter what faction you play it's just true... |
No, for Uni, it's a huge game winner. One colony pod will create 3 pop, which won't riot, and can zoom to the second (third?) b-drone limit.
For the fast tech, and the VW/PTS abuse I won't play Zak unless I want to try something out, he's almost too good. Probably the reason why he's very popular on this poll, and why many experienced players consider him a bot of a noobish faction.
Edit: typos
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Chaos Theory
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Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:28
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The Hive or Drones won't have much of a production edge on the Uni, and they'll be horribly behind in tech, the former because of very low energy flow, and the latter because of 10 turns without research, higher research costs, and .8 normal tech points after 10 years. This is too early for much stealing, and what neighbor would trade the Hive a weapon in the early game?
FM is accessible before Wealth, but if the Uni beelines for Wealth, they'll get it around 2115, which is about the same time they can get 40 credits together for an SE switch. It's better to go Simple/Wealth than FM/Survival, at least in this case.
If the Uni gets the VW and the PTS, all their bases of size 3 or below will not riot for anything short of pacifism, and of course all new bases will be size 3. No amount of bureaucracy will ever result in drones in those bases. Throw on a rec commons to get to size 4, and use specialists at size 5 and up.
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foxfire4321
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Pirates would be my number one choice. I always like to get my little aquatic empire running early and then just blast everyone out of the water who dares to venture onto the high seas. The biggest drawback is the lack of development (in an unmodded game) for deep ocean territory... you would think that the Pirates should be able to eventually work the whole of the oceans.
For classic games I go for the Giaian faction and really push the ecofriendly motif (with early move towards aquatic bases)
Either way I aim for the Geothermal Flats first and spread out from there.
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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Frankychan
Blegh...Free Market and the Hive go as well together as a laxative and standing in an hour-long line. 
Hive=Planned. Anyone who disagree's with me deserves a trip to the [SIZE=1]punishment spheres[SIZE] Recreation Commons! |
Actually, I'm not trying to get Hive fans to play free market, planned is much better for them...rather, I am trying to express my support for the free market and my hate for the hive...just didn't know I'd have to put it bluntly...
Anyway, about the Hive and University...assuming both are played by human players that have around the same level of skill, the Hive will never be able to beat the University in a tech lead...
While + research isn't supposed to affect the tech cost (rather, the tech points created), If you ever look at the tech costs for the University compared to other factions, you will see that the University always has a lower tech rate than it should...just last game I played as the morgans...my tech cost was around 120 and I have only 8 or 9 techs...the university had over 15 but had only a tech cost of about 130...other games indicate similiar occurences...never mind the fact that the University is getting more tech points...
True, late in game, the free network nodes won't matter, but because of the Hive's inability to reap the benefits of +2 economy in mid game, the University would be so far ahead, it wouldn't matter...
Either way, it doesn't really matter, since one base could produce more energy than a whole faction, and since probe teams and probe raping are involved...
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Senethro
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Interesting.
But the Cyborgs never seem to do as well at having low tech costs as I expect.
How does the extra tech cost caused by trading techs affect this?
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by foxfire4321
Pirates would be my number one choice. I always like to get my little aquatic empire running early and then just blast everyone out of the water who dares to venture onto the high seas. The biggest drawback is the lack of development (in an unmodded game) for deep ocean territory... you would think that the Pirates should be able to eventually work the whole of the oceans.
For classic games I go for the Giaian faction and really push the ecofriendly motif (with early move towards aquatic bases)
Either way I aim for the Geothermal Flats first and spread out from there. |
Pirates is a little difficult to play. You may be tempted to build a big fleet, but without air, it's pretty worthless.
Pirates handled by the AI, I see as a friend that when the war starts, is a very quick way to expand my empire. It may be different with a human player as Pirates, but I doubt.
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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:28
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I have started a game as the angels...I got industrial base from a pod, then got industrial economics as my first tech at 2108...I switched to free market as soon as I could, around 2115-2120...playing on transcend, or course...
Anyway...before doing free market, I was getting a tech like every 10 turns or something, with +2 energy per term...with free market, it was about 5-6 turns per tech and 8-10 energy...honestly, the drones are eventually going to kill you if you don't use psych or facilities, regardless of whether you have negative police or not...the only way you could say wealth is better early on than free market is if you could switch to police state as well, and get both +2 police and positive economy, but that requires 8 techs instead of 2 and 80 ECs instead of 40...
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaos Theory
The Hive or Drones won't have much of a production edge on the Uni, and they'll be horribly behind in tech, the former because of very low energy flow, and the latter because of 10 turns without research, higher research costs, and .8 normal tech points after 10 years. This is too early for much stealing, and what neighbor would trade the Hive a weapon in the early game?
FM is accessible before Wealth, but if the Uni beelines for Wealth, they'll get it around 2115, which is about the same time they can get 40 credits together for an SE switch. It's better to go Simple/Wealth than FM/Survival, at least in this case.
If the Uni gets the VW and the PTS, all their bases of size 3 or below will not riot for anything short of pacifism, and of course all new bases will be size 3. No amount of bureaucracy will ever result in drones in those bases. Throw on a rec commons to get to size 4, and use specialists at size 5 and up. |
OMG, I can't believe I didn't know this about PTS. Are you saying in addition to raising population to size 3, it won't create drones?
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Chaos Theory
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Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:28
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Archaic: If you can scrounge up enough ECs by the time you get access to FM, all the better to switch then, but I don't seem to have enough most of the time
Commy: Early on, Wealth is better than FM because each will give +1 energy on your base tiles, and FM will maybe give you +1 energy for each worker. You'll only have one worker per base, and if he's already on a tile producing 2 energy (either a monolith or a forested river would be the most common), you'll still just get 2. Going Wealth also gives +1 industry and allows you to use what few police units you have for a little while longer
Dissident: PTS doesn't cancel all drones, it just pacifies one in each base of size 3 or below. The VW makes all network nodes (which are at all cities) act as holo theaters, which pacify two drones. Thus, you have 3 drones pacified at each base of size 3 or below. Since facilities act after everything but police/pacifism and secret projects, and both holo theaters and the PTS turn superdrones into content citizens, the result is that only pacifism can make any base of size 3 or below riot.
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Archaic: If you can scrounge up enough ECs by the time you get access to FM, all the better to switch then, but I don't seem to have enough most of the time
Commy: Early on, Wealth is better than FM because each will give +1 energy on your base tiles, and FM will maybe give you +1 energy for each worker. You'll only have one worker per base, and if he's already on a tile producing 2 energy (either a monolith or a forested river would be the most common), you'll still just get 2. Going Wealth also gives +1 industry and allows you to use what few police units you have for a little while longer
Dissident: PTS doesn't cancel all drones, it just pacifies one in each base of size 3 or below. The VW makes all network nodes (which are at all cities) act as holo theaters, which pacify two drones. Thus, you have 3 drones pacified at each base of size 3 or below. Since facilities act after everything but police/pacifism and secret projects, and both holo theaters and the PTS turn superdrones into content citizens, the result is that only pacifism can make any base of size 3 or below riot. |
dare I ask what a superdrone is? I think I know, but I want to make sure.
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foxfire4321
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Guess I never notice the automated terraformers working at the endgame stage... most of the time they just seem to be raising the sea bed, but I have enough money that I don't care.
I have never found the Pirates hard to play, because most of the time you can isolate your enemies on land till about midgame while you remain safe in the water. I rarely start having a significant fleet until midgame anyway (a couple of skimships or cruisers running patrols on the borders), and barely have to enhance the naval fleet late in the game (mainly submarines or sealurks to take out enemy fleets). I do rely heavily on air power (patroling needlejets) and try for orbital insertions as quickly as possible. I can typically win the Transcend Victory without ever having to destroy any enemies (though I usually put the hurt on a few cities to make a point), if I am going for a Bloodlust Victory than I just lob missles (conventional) and drop-pod troops onto the strongest faction (after me of course) and clean up the rest after. Yeah the support penalty hurts (esp if you go for a Green democracy), but the free naval yards and marine detachments more than make up for it... plus you are first out onto the water and can get all the prime real estate. In short, to me it is the ultimate Builder faction and allows for some true risk aversion until you are fairly far in the game (it helps if you focus on the weapons early, so that you have the best ships around when people try and horn in on the waters).
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Senethro
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Q re free market: Does econ +2 get you +1 energy in base square? I presume it would because it says +1 energy in every square, yes?
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30-04-2005 09:47
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). +2 Efficiency is tech.
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