05-05-2005 21:15									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic That seems rather odd to me. I've never missed the switch. What do you spend your early energy on? If you're just hurrying a former or two, it shouldn't impact.

Research, research and, oh yes, reseach. Usually I only have +1 or 2 energy pr year in the start.

	05-05-2005 22:38									#62
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Often, I'll rush part of a colony pod, since I'd rather have a colony pod and a worker than a doctor and a worker. This might happen in my first two cities, chewing up a nontrivial amount of energy, but for a substantial gain.

	06-05-2005 01:16									#63
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Research, research and, oh yes, reseach. Usually I only have +1 or 2 energy pr year in the start.

I wouldn't make this choice early on, because of the inefficiencies and the need for funds.
I think it's important to find the break even point so that you have enough money to make the changes as soon as you get it.

	06-05-2005 02:08									#64
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Another decent trick with hurrying colony pods is to hurry the pod when the nutrients tanks have filled up to the beginning of the last row. I'll happily pay 30 energy for 10 nutrients, 2.5 mineral rows and turn advantage by having a base early.

	06-05-2005 02:43									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Ka Plewy I wouldn't make this choice early on, because of the inefficiencies and the need for funds. I think it's important to find the break even point so that you have enough money to make the changes as soon as you get it.

Oh, I may have been a little unclear. When the chioce is possible /in reach in a couple of turn, I will adjust to get enough energy to make the switch, and after that again go for research, but I would never stockpile energy - certainly not in the early years .

	06-05-2005 05:41									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory Often, I'll rush part of a colony pod, since I'd rather have a colony pod and a worker than a doctor and a worker. This might happen in my first two cities, chewing up a nontrivial amount of energy, but for a substantial gain.

Neat trick you might want to try then, if you're not already. Put the doctor to work the same turn that you're rushing the CP. Assuming you put him on a forest, you've saved 5-6 credits right there. The build orders resolve before riots are calculated.

	06-05-2005 06:00									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Neat trick you might want to try then, if you're not already. Put the doctor to work the same turn that you're rushing the CP. Assuming you put him on a forest, you've saved 5-6 credits right there. The build orders resolve before riots are calculated.

Nice trick- i'll remember it , but I can't recall a situation where it would have made a difference - maybe I need a human opponent

	06-05-2005 12:44									#68
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Yep, I do that all the time. Often, it makes the difference between being able to afford to hurry something, and not being able to afford it.

	06-05-2005 14:15									#69
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Figures that a high level player like you would already do it (You'd be surprised how many don't though). Not sure where your energy drain could possibily be coming from then however. Oo; How many credits do you pump into that CP?

	06-05-2005 18:08									#70
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Personally I suck at early FM and trying to keep your bases at size 1 with CP-hurrying (basically because I've never tried it before ). So I'm wondering, would someone be willing to upload some turn-per-turn save files of a faction (without anti-drones bonuses) running early FM, so that I can check out how it's done?

	06-05-2005 18:54									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Personally I suck at early FM and trying to keep your bases at size 1 with CP-hurrying (basically because I've never tried it before )

i must admit i'm at the same feeling...
it looks like we are dealing with the players who specialize ONLY on playing UNI and they seem to have right what they talk about... (as UNI is considered to be the easiest faction - i don't play them often)

	06-05-2005 19:00									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Sebed i must admit i'm at the same feeling... it looks like we are dealing with the players who specialize ONLY on playing UNI and they seem to have right what they talk about... (as UNI is considered to be the easiest faction - i don't play them often)

Where do you get the idea that they only play Uni? We're talking early FM which is doable by all factions but Gaia.
I'll early FM anyone, except probably the Hive.

	06-05-2005 19:06									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Ka Plewy Where do you get the idea that they only play Uni? We're talking early FM which is doable by all factions but Gaia. I'll early FM anyone, except probably the Hive.

so... you already make exeption of two factions - if we search deeply we can find more

	06-05-2005 19:33									#74
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On first sight I'd say early FM is super-easy with the UoP (after VW), Peacekeepers, Drones (so I'm not interested in save files of those).

I'd say it's not recommended for Sparta (you lose your Police advantage), Hive, Gaia, Cult.

That still leaves Morgan (duh! ), Believers, Pirates, Angels and CyCon as possible factions for early FM instead of Planned. So I'm interested how it's done with those. UoP prior to Virtual World would also be interesting of course.

	06-05-2005 19:48									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac On first sight I'd say early FM is super-easy with the UoP (after VW), Peacekeepers,

i agree...

quote: Drones (so I'm not interested in save files of those)

i must disagree - i currently play a game as a Drone and in 40 turn i was able to build HGP, WP, VW, PTS - and consider that PK player plays at librarian, and i had to deal with UNI as well...

quote: I'd say it's not recommended for Sparta (you lose your Police advantage), Hive, Gaia, Cult.

i must agree again...

quote: That still leaves Morgan (duh! )

thay were born for it

quote: Believers, Pirates, Angels and CyCon as possible factions for early FM instead of Planned. So I'm interested how it's done with those. UoP prior to Virtual World would also be interesting of course.

yes, indeed...
what can i say?
i play also pirates and i prefer to stay in planned instead of FM!!! - yes it's tremendous (-3 eff!!!) waste of energy but i'm at the beginning of the game and planned suits better for pirates at this stage...

	06-05-2005 20:21									#76
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There just aren't that many energy credits to go around by year 2115, unless you're lucky with pods or worms.

As far as who can go FM, for any faction that can have content size 2 bases without police (PKs, Drones, anyone with the HGP), FM is very desirable. Any faction that can't reach +2 econ with FM (Hive, Cult) can't make it worthwhile. That leaves the Morganites, Uni, Believers, Spartans, CyCon, Angels, Pirates, and Aliens.

For the Believers, CyCon, and Angels, I might use Planned instead of FM, depending on circumstances. For the Uni and Morganites, I very often go early FM. The Morganites can't run Planned, and Green is unavailable for a while. The Uni boasts an extreme research rate, so I might as well make it larger by supplying energy. If I can tech up enough by the time someone finds me, I win. I don't really know how to use the Spartans or Pirates, and I don't enjoy playing the Aliens.

I can produce some save files when I shouldn't be doing something else...

	06-05-2005 21:29									#77
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Spartans, police state/free market. No police but no drones for leaving territory. With Rec comms you've got a good research rate and a good income that can be used for unit upgrades or probe actions.

	06-05-2005 21:52									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Sebed so... you already make exeption of two factions - if we search deeply we can find more

Umm, Gaia can't go FM, and for the Hive, it's not worth it -2 to 0 econ is not worth it. I made an exception for one faction, the Hive, where it doesn't impact them positively enough to overcome the negative effects.
I'm not wanting to sound smart here, but if you're going to nitpick a post, at least recognize that it is impossible for the Gaian factions to go FM. IF you want to call the Hive an exception to the rule of going early to FM, then I'll happily stipulate to that. They get one more energy per base. For this discussion, in my mind, they might as well be Gaian, since it's almost impossible for them to get to +2 econ.

	06-05-2005 21:55									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro Spartans, police state/free market. No police but no drones for leaving territory. With Rec comms you've got a good research rate and a good income that can be used for unit upgrades or probe actions.

I play Spartans this way quite a bit.

	06-05-2005 22:26									#80
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I wouldn't think Police State/FM would work very well, given very high inefficiency losses. Even with -1 effic as Lal, I feel the burn for some years between Wealth and Demo.

	06-05-2005 22:51									#81
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quote: I wouldn't think Police State/FM would work very well, given very high inefficiency losses. Even with -1 effic as Lal, I feel the burn for some years between Wealth and Demo.

I use it pre pop-boom, and usually to the point I can piss an AI Lal off enough to attack, although, Lal is so crazy I don't need it. It's useful for the increase in energy, and the ability to continue exploring, especially unexploited ocean pods.

	07-05-2005 01:37									#82
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I typically use the PS/FM in an aggressive phase of an ICS in which expansion is halted. With 1 square spacing the "distance from capital" part of the energy lost through inefficiency cacluclation treats me generously and minimal energy is lost.

	07-05-2005 05:00									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Sebed i must disagree - i currently play a game as a Drone and in 40 turn i was able to build HGP, WP, VW, PTS - and consider that PK player plays at librarian, and i had to deal with UNI as well...

Actually, I'm a little confused. Are you stating that you in 2141 has build these SP's or that it took you 40 turns to build them ? If it had been anyone else than the drones, I would have believed in 2141. If you seriously mean 2141, can you please send some savings, I am pretty eager to learn how to to it.

	07-05-2005 07:02									#84
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Spartans/Gaians.

Save a tree: Wipe your butt with an owl

	07-05-2005 08:29									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Personally I suck at early FM and trying to keep your bases at size 1 with CP-hurrying (basically because I've never tried it before ). So I'm wondering, would someone be willing to upload some turn-per-turn save files of a faction (without anti-drones bonuses) running early FM, so that I can check out how it's done?

I'll do you a Uni game without PTS, HGP or VW then. That should be the hardest possible setup.

I can't speak for the others, but Sebed's right about me. I do specialize in only playing the Uni, though I do dabble from time to time in the PK's, Angels, Morgan, and the CyCons. I would have to disagree with them being the "easiest" faction in MP though, if only for the fact that you're a big target, and prone to getting slaughtered by probe rape in early land wars.

	07-05-2005 20:06									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory I can produce some save files when I shouldn't be doing something else...

quote: Originally posted by Archaic I'll do you a Uni game without PTS, HGP or VW then. That should be the hardest possible setup.

Thanks.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic I do specialize in only playing the Uni, though I do dabble from time to time in the PK's, Angels, Morgan, and the CyCons.

Ah, how do you play the CyCon? I've been wondering about a good strategy for them in this thread.

	07-05-2005 20:15									#87
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Actually, I'm a little confused. Are you stating that you in 2141 has build these SP's or that it took you 40 turns to build them ?

yes, i did it!!!
but i was very lucky, i must admit...
as i said one of the players was on librarian (all others playing on transend) and he was very quick on research - i was his nearest neighbour and i was succesfull to trade techs with him...
i was almost first one (if not the first) to get IA...
later, i met UNI and made some more trades in-between
after i got IA i went for planned and started to build ONLY supply crawlers - and frankly speaking i was able to build all those SP around 2135 turn but i wanted to save at least one AA

quote: If it had been anyone else than the drones, I would have believed in 2141.

yes, i did it as a Drone - this game is not finished yet...

quote: If you seriously mean 2141, can you please send some savings, I am pretty eager to learn how to to it.

as i said - it's rather hard to repeat it...
i had a very good luck - was lucky to beat at least 5(!!!) fungal towers as well (but there was a Manifold Nexus on my territorry) so i had a lots of energy and could easly rush-build under planned economy...

	07-05-2005 20:42									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Sebed yes, i did it!!! but i was very lucky, i must admit... as i said one of the players was on librarian (all others playing on transend) and he was very quick on research - i was his nearest neighbour and i was succesfull to trade techs with him... i was almost first one (if not the first) to get IA... later, i met UNI and made some more trades in-between after i got IA i went for planned and started to build ONLY supply crawlers - and frankly speaking i was able to build all those SP around 2135 turn but i wanted to save at least one AA yes, i did it as a Drone - this game is not finished yet... as i said - it's rather hard to repeat it... i had a very good luck - was lucky to beat at least 5(!!!) fungal towers as well (but there was a Manifold Nexus on my territorry) so i had a lots of energy and could easly rush-build under planned economy...

Ok, don't send savings - you can't reproduce sheer luck

I was so curious that I tried to start a game as Drones, and managed to get those SP's in 2240, but then again, I haven't met any opponents yet - feel me a little lonely

	07-05-2005 23:56									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Ah, how do you play the CyCon? I've been wondering about a good strategy for them in this thread.

Exactly the same way I play the Uni. Never said I was good with them, only that I dabble occasionally. ^^;; Their growth penalty really screws me up, given that I usually have low growth to begin with, and it's difficult to do my usual early game when I'm unable to do an early FM thanks to needing Planned for growth to maintain the ultra-thin expansion.

	08-05-2005 01:31									#90
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I like the univercity and morgan