25-04-2005 09:08									#1
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I heard that some american christians pray "in tongue". Not sure I understand what that means. Do they pray in latin?

	25-04-2005 09:14									#2
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Dunno. I know Jews trapped in the Midwest pray for tongue. That, or maybe a nice brisket.

	25-04-2005 09:22									#3
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It's part of the charismatic movement for catholics. I'm not sure if/how it exists with the prots.

Basically, it's babbling. By definition, it has no direct connection with a particular language.

	25-04-2005 09:22									#4
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I dont' know a thing about this

JM

	25-04-2005 09:23									#5
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It's called speaking in toungues. Supposedly when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, they begin speaking in the language of God. Like most foreign languages, it is incomprehensible to the outsider, and sounds like mere gibberish. It is not any real language. People who speak in toungues claim the can understand each other when it is happening, but they can't remember the meaning of the words. They experience of feeling of great bliss, love, and contentment. They are usually quite flush afterwwards also.

I have seen it firsthand. It looks like the person is having a stroke. Sounds like it too. My personal belief is that they put themselves into a trance and just begin gibbering. Other religions and cultures have ways of doing the same thing: the whirling dervishes, sweat lodges, meditation, etc. They don't all achieve the same silly looking results, but they all reach an epihany state. Having twice reached epiphany, I have to say it's definately a wonderful place to be. It's like being really high without the druggy feeling.

	25-04-2005 09:23									#6
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Btw, it's praying in tongues, not praying in tongue.

	25-04-2005 09:24									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DanS It's part of the charismatic movement for catholics. I'm not sure if/how it exists with the prots.

Not just Catholics. Evangelicals of all stripes do this. I saw it at a Pentacostal church service.

	25-04-2005 09:25									#8
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From what I have seen, such stuff isn't nearly as dramatic as che describes. No trance, etc.

	25-04-2005 09:26									#9
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KLDJFA[OIDFA!!!! LK;DJFLKAJDFKLJASLJFLAJDSLKF!!!!@DFA
ADF90UDAFSFADSFJKL@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

	25-04-2005 09:28									#10
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Brisket.

	25-04-2005 09:28									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DanS From what I have seen, such stuff isn't nearly as dramatic as che describes. No trance, etc.

Man, they don't call Pentacostals "Holy Rollers" for nothing.

	25-04-2005 09:29									#12
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OMFG! Ted is hitting it with the Holy Spirit!

	25-04-2005 09:30									#14
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According to the Wikipedia:

quote: One of the most prominent distinguishing characteristics of Pentecostalism that separates it from Evangelicalism is its emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues, also known as glossolalia, is the normative proof of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Most major Pentecostal churches also accept the corollary that those who don't speak in tongues have not received the blessing that they call "The Baptism of the Holy Spirit" (this claim is uniquely Pentecostal and is one of the few consistent differences from Charismatic theology).

	25-04-2005 09:31									#15
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Jus raise yer hand if you have been in the building when this occurs....otherwise, shut yer yap!

	25-04-2005 09:32									#16
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Wikipedia on glossolalia:

quote: Tongues in the New Testament In the New Testament, the book of Acts recounts how "tongues of fire" descended upon the heads of the Apostles, accompanied by the miraculous occurrence of speaking in languages unknown to them, but recognizable to others present as particular foreign languages. Not only their peers, but also anyone else in the room who spoke any other language, could understand the words that the Apostles spoke. Acts 2 described the phenomenon in terms of a miracle of universal translation, enabling people from many parts of the world speaking many different languages to understand them. This Biblical case exemplifies religious xenoglossia, i.e., miraculously speaking in an actual foreign language that the speaker does not know. Some of the Orthodox hymns sung at the Feast of Pentecost, which commemorates this event in Acts, describe it as a reversal of what happened at the Tower of Babel as described in Genesis 11. In other words, the languages of humanity were differentiated at the Tower of Babel leading to confusion, but were reunited at Pentecost, resulting in the immediate proclamation of the Gospel to people who were gathered in Jerusalem from many different countries. Elsewhere in the New Testament Paul describes the experience as speaking in an "unknown tongue" (1 Cor 14:14-19) and discourages simultaneous speaking in tongues lest unbelievers think the assembled brethren "mad" (1 Cor 14:23, 27). Many Pentecostal groups teach that speaking in tongues is not exclusively xenoglossia. [edit] Contemporary Christian glossolalia Some Christians have claimed that they have witnessed, or personally engaged in, soi-disant "speaking in tongues". These claims have particular importance in the Pentecostal and in the Charismatic traditions. The belief that the gifts of the Apostles (Acts 2) continue to persist in the modern world forms a fundamental point of Pentecostal and Charismatic doctrine. In light of 1 Corinthians 14:2 and 14:14, both Pentecostals and Charimatics believe that speaking in tongues is a form of praying in the spirit. Other Christians hold that this religious glossolalia comprises, at least in some cases, bona fide language inspired by the Holy Spirit: utterances in a language usually unknown to both the speaker and to the listeners. Yet other Christians hold that all, or almost all, modern glossolalia has bogus origins, neither divinely inspired nor language-based. This view is more typically held in the Evangelical tradition. Charismatic/Pentecostal and Evangelical Christians more readily agree that the original instances of Christian glossolalia, as reported in the book of Acts, exemplified bona fide instances of actual human languages.

Weird stuff...

	25-04-2005 09:33									#17
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* chegitz guevara raises his hand.

	25-04-2005 09:38									#18
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personally, i am not going to judge this; i don't want to risk standing before God some day and have Him ask me what i was thinking....

	25-04-2005 09:38									#19
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Man, Americans are bonkers...

	25-04-2005 09:42									#20
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Not just Catholics. Evangelicals of all stripes do this. I saw it at a Pentacostal church service.

Actually its almost all the Pentacostals. Its during the Petacost that speaking in tongues is recorded in the Bible IIRC. AFAIK speaking in tongues in other Churches would be due to Pentacostal influence.

	25-04-2005 09:43									#21
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Man, Americans are bonkers...

	25-04-2005 09:47									#22
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Most of the charismatic movement in the RCC went by the wayside in the early 90s. Ironically, most of these folks are now pretty conservative church. They are also a pretty vibrant part of the church.

	25-04-2005 09:47									#23
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Not necessarily. I've been in all three, a pentecostal church, an evangelical one and a Catholic church. While the Catholic church does not put as much emphasis on speaking in tongues as the pentecostals do, they still recognise it as a gift of the spirit.

Now tongues can either be in an unknown language, or a known one. In fact the very first fruit of the holy spirit after the ascension of Christ was tongues, in allowing the Apostles to proclaim the gospels to all nations, even though they did not know the other languages.

Paul spends quite a bit of time with tongues, that they are to be used in edification of the church, and ought be combined with the gift of interpretation. This gift allows the congregation to understand what is being said by the manifestation of tongues.

	25-04-2005 09:50									#24
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quote: Most of the charismatic movement in the RCC went by the wayside in the early 90s. Ironically, most of these folks are now pretty conservative church.

I would have no clue. I've known a few Charismatic Catholics, but the one I knew best passed away about a year ago. I don't know which parish she attended.

I would be interested in learning more about the Charismatic Catholics, since I haven't spent much time with them.

	25-04-2005 09:53									#25
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Ben what is the next church you are going to join?

	25-04-2005 10:00									#26
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quote: I would be interested in learning more about the Charismatic Catholics, since I haven't spent much time with them.

Well, as I said, the movement has pretty much subsided AFAIK, and I only know the status of one institution that was prominent in the movement (Franciscan University of Steubenville). There was a casual network of religious communities that got into it pretty heavily, but I'm not really familiar with those in detail.

NB: The movement in the RCC was rather small and apparently of a pretty different nature in comparison with the pentecostals.

	25-04-2005 10:03									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Most of the charismatic movement in the RCC went by the wayside in the early 90s. Ironically, most of these folks are now pretty conservative church. They are also a pretty vibrant part of the church.

IIRC you get the most Charismatic Catholics existed in places where the Pentecostals were making the strongest inroads. I'm not saying is that the Catholics ripped off the Pentecostals necessarily, but the existance of Pentacostals doing well definately influenced the rise of the Catholic Charismatics.

	25-04-2005 10:08									#28
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I would have to see the backup for such an opinion. As I know it (not well), charismatic catholics and pentecostals never really intersected. It would be a big stretch to say that they influenced one another.

	25-04-2005 10:10									#29
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quote: Ben what is the next church you are going to join?

My pastor in the mennonite church came from a pentecostal church, as did the fellow who brought me to Christ in the first place.

So I have had contact with pentecostals through them.

But I have never set foot inside a pentecostal church.

Technically the Russian Language ministry I attended was a pentecostal ministry inside an evanglical mennonite church. Odd, but that's the truth.

	25-04-2005 10:15									#30
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quote: Well, as I said, the movement has pretty much subsided AFAIK, and I only know the status of one institution that was prominent in the movement (Franciscan University of Steubenville).

Isn't that where Scott Hahn teaches?

Indeed it is!