27-04-2005 22:24									#61
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The bottom line is exchange rate minipulations are a form of protectionism which is adversely impacting China's trading partners. It seems only fair that action be taken to correct this distortion and punish China for trying to abuse the system.

	27-04-2005 22:27									#62
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All of those actions would hurt us more than hurt them. On the other hand, I'm not adverse to a little shoving, especially on forcing China to crack down on counterfeiters of DVDs, for instance.

	27-04-2005 22:55									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin http://www.wto.org/english/res_e/st...its04_toc_e.htm Check the WTO's website and you find the US is not only the world's largest exporter but it leads the world in a large number of fields. It's hard to say a country sucks at exporting when it is so dominate at doing it.

You missed the point. Don't ***** about not being able to export to China if you don't even try. Five other economies export more to China because they make the effort to.

	27-04-2005 23:01									#64
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Oh, and despite what is described as a protectionist policy of currency devaluation the US is not the leading exporter of the world. It's second. Pretty sad considering they are the biggest economy by a huge margin.

	27-04-2005 23:26									#65
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quote: LoA, You say the most ridiculous things out of anyone here at Poly. Globalization/Protectionism is a process that the capitalist economy goes through. It's not just the protectionism that ruins the economy its's also free trade. Free trade creates increasing imbalances that governments attempt to alleviate through protectionism. Reducing our manufacturing base to zero is just going to make it harder for us the next time the house of cards comes tumbling down. The only thing stupider that eliminating our manufacturing base would be to eliminate our agricultural base. Service is the least important base. An economy that only provides services is going to be completely ****ed.

i say the most ridiculous things? hahahhaa. aaahhh youre the best kid. your post doesnt say anything concrete, just statements like 'service is the least important base.' ok, prove it. all retail stores, supermarkets are service. i guess thats the least important right? gas stations are services, banking, real estate are all services. but those are all unimportant right. i mean, you only need to do those things everyday. meanwhile, manufacturing, stuff that you only buy once every couple of years (cars, washingmachines, appliances) are more important eh?

i agree with Dan tho. Yeah, its tought, but thats the way we go forward. Not everyone can be a winner, but on a whole, the economy can win. and thats so extremely selfish that you want all of americas poor to pay more so that your daddy can keep his job. just crush them more so they cant get out of their poverty traps.

quote: A big chunk of the cost difference goes to fattening the pockets of corporate big-wigs. *cough* $100 Nikes *cough*

better then $200 nikes *cough**cough* its easy for you to tell me that youd rather pay double for everything else, but I can barely get by as it is now on my minimum wage salary with prices the way they are. i need all the cheap imports I can find.

	27-04-2005 23:32									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia your post doesnt say anything concrete, just statements like 'service is the least important base.' ok, prove it.

You need proof? You top yourself. We don't need service as badly as we need agriculture and manufacturing. The little service that is actually required does not require a base to maintain.

	27-04-2005 23:35									#67
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Why do we need agriculture and manufacturering to be made SPECIFICALLY in the US? What's the point if it is done cheaper somewhere else?

	27-04-2005 23:37									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Why do we need agriculture and manufacturering to be made SPECIFICALLY in the US? What's the point if it is done cheaper somewhere else?

You need to have the "know how" and ability to produce enough for the nation in case of world economic colapse. If you don't have that you are severly ****ed.

	27-04-2005 23:39									#69
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quote: You need to have the "know how" and ability to produce enough for the nation in case of world economic colapse. If you don't have that you are severly ****ed.

in the case of world economic collapse what makes you think our agricultural sector wont collapse but theirs will?

	27-04-2005 23:40									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia in the case of world economic collapse what makes you think our agricultural sector wont collapse but theirs will?

You can put the sector back together as long as you have a base.

	27-04-2005 23:44									#71
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quote: You can put the sector back together as long as you have a base.

that didnt answer the question. if its a world wide economic collapse, that means our agriculture would be just as affected as their agriculture, meaning it wouldnt matter if we had a base or not.

	27-04-2005 23:50									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Why do we need agriculture and manufacturering to be made SPECIFICALLY in the US? What's the point if it is done cheaper somewhere else?

we need dependable supplies. The English learned this the hard way in WW1. Thanks to the corn laws they were dependant on US food stuffs, and came within weeks of everyone starving to death.

Manufacturing and Research are synergistic and will want to be located near to each other. If you think we can move the "lower class" work(which by the way still pays a heck of a lot better then comparable service sector jobs), and still retain the design and high tech, you have another thing coming.

Certain industries will not just pop back up immediately, anything that is capital intensive and requires a good bit of knowledge will take decades to come back should have need of it again. I would not be so hasty to throw such industries to the wind.

There is the matter of paying for the object in question, If we do not produce anything, we can not consume their goods. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

	27-04-2005 23:54									#73
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quote: we need dependable supplies. The English learned this the hard way in WW1. Thanks to the corn laws they were dependant on US food stuffs, and came within weeks of everyone starving to death.

all of our food can be grown in mexico or canada, no problem. also, do you see us going to war with any of our major supplier of food in the next 50 years?

quote: Manufacturing and Research are synergistic and will want to be located near to each other. If you think we can move the "lower class" work(which by the way still pays a heck of a lot better then comparable service sector jobs), and still retain the design and high tech, you have another thing coming.

and those manufacturing jobs which need to be close to research will not be affected, only the jobs which dont need to be close to research, like textiles.

quote: There is the matter of paying for the object in question, If we do not produce anything, we can not consume their goods. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

services.

	28-04-2005 00:12									#74
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quote: You need to have the "know how" and ability to produce enough for the nation in case of world economic colapse. If you don't have that you are severly ****ed.

If there is a world economic collapse, as LoA pointed out, any agricultural and manufacturing in the US would be wiped out as well. Capital intensive industries are the ones that are moving overseas... the labor intensive ones are. Capital intensive industries are staying in the US because they require high skilled workers.

Though in a world economic collapse, it wouldn't matter at all if you had a 'base'. You could always create a base afterwards. There is plenty of farmland in the US and factories can be constructed.

quote: and those manufacturing jobs which need to be close to research will not be affected, only the jobs which dont need to be close to research, like textiles.

Bingo... if it is valuable to have certain kinds of manufacturing close to reseach, they'll stay. If not, then they'll move. And what does it matter if those manufacturing plants move?

	28-04-2005 00:15									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia all of our food can be grown in mexico or canada, no problem. also, do you see us going to war with any of our major supplier of food in the next 50 years?

Mexico is teaching its population that "the gringos up north are responsible for all of our problems." so Hell Yes I see us going to war with them in the next 50 years. Lets also just ignore the fact that we don't have anywhere near the enforcement capability to eliminate false flagging.

quote: and those manufacturing jobs which need to be close to research will not be affected, only the jobs which dont need to be close to research, like textiles.

Boeing is increasingly moving its airplane production to Asia, Japan and China to be more specific. We are moving high tech industry out.

quote: services.

Even if we wouldn't be running a service sector deficit in the next decade or so, it would not ever be enough to counter the enormous goods deficit.

	28-04-2005 00:18									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You missed the point. Don't ***** about not being able to export to China if you don't even try. Five other economies export more to China because they make the effort to.

China understands that one does not trade with her enemies, only her allies. Which is why socialists and communists in South America,Europe,Asia,and Africa who are willing to lessen or eliminate China's dependance on US raw materials, or close the gap with US weapons technology can get "some" exports to China. It is what we in the US did post WW2, throw some bones to people to cement our power.

However, China is perfectly willing to close the trade gap between itself and the US, perhaps even run a massive trade deficit with the US for a while, the Price you may be asking? Arm the Communist Regime with all of our most advanced weaponry. After a few years of that however, we'd be back to square 1, but with stealth bombers pointed at us.

	28-04-2005 00:24									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha China understands that one does not trade with her enemies, only her allies. Which is why socialists and communists in South America,Europe,Asia,and Africa who are willing to lessen or eliminate China's dependance on US raw materials, or close the gap with US weapons technology can get "some" exports to China.

It's not the commies and socialists in Europe who wants to sell China weapons.

	28-04-2005 00:54									#78
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quote: so Hell Yes I see us going to war with them in the next 50 years.

You are crazy.

	28-04-2005 01:04									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Though in a world economic collapse, it wouldn't matter at all if you had a 'base'. You could always create a base afterwards. There is plenty of farmland in the US and factories can be constructed.

You're disregarding the importance of time.

	28-04-2005 01:04									#80
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quote: Boeing is increasingly moving its airplane production to Asia, Japan and China to be more specific. We are moving high tech industry out.

so thats an example where research and production do not need to be close to each other. an example of linked research and production would be say silicon valley. its not going anywhere. more software hotspots may pop up elswhere around the world, but silicon valley is not turning into the next rust belt. more jobs are just being created in localized places, like bangalore.

	28-04-2005 01:11									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You're disregarding the importance of time.

With a world economic collapse, it'll take lots of time to get even countries with a 'base' up to speed. In contrast, building up factories doesn't take that much time. A lot of countries with a 'base' are going to need to retool most of their factories anyway to make the stuff they need.

	28-04-2005 01:13									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui In contrast, building up factories doesn't take that much time.

Are you insane!

	28-04-2005 01:16									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: so Hell Yes I see us going to war with them in the next 50 years. You are crazy.

This is a thread you started.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=131916

	28-04-2005 01:17									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Are you insane!

No, are you? How long do you think it takes to build a factory? These people aren't standing around 5 years later waiting patiently for their factory to be built. It may be quicker to build a new factory that it would be retrofit a factory 'base' for what is required for a society after a world economic collapse. Hint, it probably won't be for what those manufacturing plants are used for now.

	28-04-2005 01:19									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha This is a thread you started. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=131916

China = Mexico?

And has anyone said there was going to be war there?

And you posted:

quote: It is all just talk, their actions speak far louder then any words, but I am suprised to see the last paragraph acknowledge that.

@ your reaching

	28-04-2005 01:21									#86
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No, its just a single example, among many, of such propaganda being used to direct the populace away from examining their own corrupt government, with predictable results.

	28-04-2005 01:22									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha No, its just a single example, among many, of such propaganda being used to direct the populace away from examining their own corrupt government, with predictable results.

So are you predicing a China-Japan war within the next 50 years?

	28-04-2005 01:22									#88
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quote: Hint, it probably won't be for what those manufacturing plants are used for now.

	28-04-2005 01:22									#89
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I'm glad to know that you're yet another on the list of monster raving loonies I can ignore here.

	28-04-2005 01:26									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So are you predicing a China-Japan war within the next 50 years?

probably much sooner, and probably involving the entire world.