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wuy3
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doesn't planting massive amounts of forests go faster then just plain fungal removal since forests can expand and replace fungal squares?
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:17
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MY-2169
Suggested changes:
Switch to DEM, for commencement of Operation PopBoom – Note that we have 3 crèches currently built, so that popbooming can commence immediately, if we have the nut surplus and base facilities
Set sliders to 40:10:50 so that increased population doesn’t automatically mean drone riots
Candidates:- Arcadia University:- Move worker off forest onto offshore kelp nutrient – will grow to size 5 in 2170, but next pop will be a drone (1st 2 citizens are pacified by the holotheater, and 2nd 2 by the 2 base garrison units acting as police). Needs a rec commons or else 2 cdf’s instead of the current Impact Infantryman and Hoplite. Currently building a crawler. Rush it next turn (5 credits) then change production to a Rec commons.
- Fort Liberty:- Fungiformer clears fungus on tile due west, and constructs farm (rolling, rainy, river) and solar collector (1620 meters) – 3/1/3 is better than a road and mine giving 2/2/1, for popbooming. After that it flips round the river bend to 87:15 and does the same there. These extra 6 nuts will force growth to size 6, so we need a rec commons next (that plus the cdf and hoplite covers to size 5, so either we need to switch a hoplite for a cdf, or else run with 1 talent in the base)
- Fort Superiority:-Tree farm will give 3 extra nuts , so in 2171 will grow to size 7. It will then have a 3 nut surplus (assuming the 7th worker is put on a forested tile, but needs a Hab Complex to grow, as well as another cdf to offset drones. So, after the Tree farm, next turn, switch to a Complax, and find another cdf somewhere (then 8 workers can be maintained – 2 covered by the rec commons, 2 by the holotheater, and 4 from the 2 cdf’s – any more will need to be talents until we get a research hospital built there, which will take care of another 1)
- Gythium Harbour:- Currently size 4, with a rec commons and 2 Hoplites doing police work. Also currently has a 2 nut surplus. Switch production to a crèche, and upgrade or swap one or both hoplites for cdf’s
- Rio Grande:- currently size 3 with a hoplite and a cdf curbing drone activity. Needs a rec commons as well as a crèche, but can grow to size 4 with a hoplite>>> cdf switch, and further growth can be talents until Rec Commons active. Good site for nutrient development
- Santiago Citadel:- Size 4 with a rec commons, hoplite and cdf controlling drones (they’d also control up to 5 drones) With worker reallocation could run a 2 nut surplus right now. Start a crèche in 2169, with a Tree Farm to follow.
Current size 3 bases and opportunities- Fort Buster::- Aerospace Center there, so crèche, Rec Commons etc would detract from Air Force building
- Ironholm:- has 6 rainy tiles in its base radius (but 4 under fungus), so is a prime candidate for farms and condensers, even letting other bases crawl nuts from there. Fungiformer completing next turn goes 1 south and then 1 east to clear that fungus and farm that rainy tile (can be used by either Ironholm or Fort Soup) – then either continues on that loop to give Fort Soup more farm tiles – can tagteam with FL’s fungiformer for instabuilds – or head to Ironholm’s east and northeast radius tiles to defungus and farm there. Would need a crèche then a rec commons
- Sector Craterwest:- Currently running a 2 nut surplus, but needs a crèche to take advantage of it. Drone control is an Ogre and a hoplite, so would need the hoplite to switch for a cdf, or else a Rec Commons ASAP after growing
- Sparta Command:- A couple of 2-nut tiles in its radius, but we’ve dumped so many units onto SC1 for upkeep that we can’t readily shift workers onto nut surplus tiles. Would need some homed crawlers (to mineral crawl) before we could do that, so likely not an early candidate – which is a pity, being our HQ and likely site of any possible Spartan Super science City). Would also need a switch from its hoplite to a cdf, or else a Rec Commons, and eventually a Holotheater. A long term project
- 2 Nuts Strand:- nutrient rich, but minerals poor. Needs a fungiformer to clear fungus and plant forests to get the minerals count up. It does have 3 rocky tiles within its radius, albeit 2 are fungus-covered, so there’s minerals potential there
Summary: Changing to Dem next turn – and after shuffling a few units around to cope with the loss of some free upkeep that Fundy provides – would result in some immediate population gains, and get our popboom started.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
And what is so wrong about Rec Tanks?  |
Nothing wrong with them - in most SP games they are the first thing i build - that 1-1-1 for 300 or 400 years is an awesome return on investment
but ....
most PBEMs rarely last longer than 2225, and then the equation isn't so lop-sided. Deferring creches (to fuel a pop boom) by, say, 5 turns while you build a creche in a base literally can cost a player the whole game. As vel rightly says, it's all about turn advantage, and if you can get from size 3 to size 7 (or even better, 14) in five fewer turns, that's am awesome advantage
Consider (and to keep it simple, say it's 2170, and we will, after creches, be able to popboom from size 3 to 7 in 4 turns and assume new workers work a 1/2/1 forest, and also that we build a rec tank or a creche in 4 turns)
scenario-1 2174:rec tank built, then start a creche, completed in 2178, then poopboom 1 per for 4 turns - 2179 through 2182 when population reaches 7
Cost of rec tanks 40 minerals, then 2175 through 21832(8 turns) of a 1-1-1 bonus, plus 4 turns (2179 - 2182) of a 1/2/1, three turns of 2 etc
Total nutrients: 18
total minerals: 28
total energy: 18
scenario-2 2174: creche built, and pop boom 2175 through 2178, when max of 7 is reached
Cost of rec tanks - zero (a creche is built in both scenarions, so is a wash)
total nutrients: 26
total minerals: 52
total energy: 26
Over time, of course, the addition of the 1/1/1 every turn overtakes that 4 year hiatus while the tanks were getting built, but you have to hope the game lasts long enough gfor you to get ahead in the equation, and as well, the lost opportunity is hard to quantify - what could you have been building with those extra 64 minerals (the 40 for the rec tanks plus the 24 differential per base that's booming), and what boost did the extra 8 energy (per base booming) give to your research?
So it's not that anything's wrong with rec tanks, it's just that many think that in PBEMs they are lower on the priority list than some other facilities. (Of course, if you're Morgan - or the Pirates with their 200 credit seapodpops - you can afford rec tanks 'cos then you can rush them in 1 turn, thereby restoring that vaunted "turn advantage" when you do pop-boom)
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
[*]Gythium Harbour:- Currently size 4, with a rec commons and 2 Hoplites doing police work. Also currently has a 2 nut surplus. Switch production to a crèche, and upgrade or swap one or both hoplites for cdf’s
[*]Santiago Citadel:- Size 4 with a rec commons, hoplite and cdf controlling drones (they’d also control up to 5 drones) With worker reallocation could run a 2 nut surplus right now. Start a crèche in 2169, with a Tree Farm to follow.[/list] |
According to my simulation, with our current terraformation, we can only popboom one base to size seven. May I therefore suggest to only build a creche at Santiago Citadel right now, and only build one in GH after we've constructed some more farms and condensers on the rainy foothills west of Sparta Command?
(If you're interested, I can upload the played simulation turns up to 2173 btw)
quote:
Sector Craterwest:- Currently running a 2 nut surplus, but needs a crèche to take advantage of it. Drone control is an Ogre and a hoplite, so would need the hoplite to switch for a cdf, or else a Rec Commons ASAP after growing |
If we switch to democratic, due to the decreased nutrient needs to grow, SC3 would already already grow to size four by itself, without a creche. 
quote:
2 Nuts Strand:- nutrient rich, but minerals poor. Needs a fungiformer to clear fungus and plant forests to get the minerals count up. It does have 3 rocky tiles within its radius, albeit 2 are fungus-covered, so there’s minerals potential there |
Yep. Once we can get some formers and crawlers over there, that base will rock.
quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
Formers will take time to build things up — time when we would already be profiting from Rec Tanks. |
While recycling tanks give a constant 1-1-1 right from the start, the two formers you could build instead with those 40 minerals, keep terraforming and with every added terrain improvement become more and more profitable than a recycling tanks. (I think)
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