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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
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Your point is (besides having nose so deep in brands that it stinks all the way here)?
iPod phone. As if that's a product. nGage is a product, and not too bad of a product, however almost obsolete and total failure and flop. iPod is a succesful product. So is cell phones.
So, you go and pick the only huge failure of the family, and go on comparing it to make belief product. So.. your point is.. what?
It's not just Nokia, everyone is making the same move, which I would say is a smart one. I'm not a big fan of cameras on phones, but this one is something useful.
Like I said before, it's the future. It's a mobile device. You call it phone, but that's because you are not seeing the vision, while on the other hand if it was up to you, the world would be shaped like an apple and bill gates would ram everyones butts when the morning shift begins 
Just joking. But anyway, I hope you see, that your comparison is not only failing in validity, but also completely sidetracking and .. well, not very good one.
And as for a device that can do everything, can't do a single thing well? That's what I brought up earlier. However, how much does it really have to develop anymore to have similar capabilites with iPod? They are different products, and can't be compared, but mobile device that has 4 gigs of storage, not to mention better chances of exploring future applications to it.. as far as that particular details go (aka what really matters), then that's the same, right? Comparing to iPod mini. Of course, the capabilities will go through the roof, and mobile devices and iPods (which is a mobile device too, kind of) will have the same potential for playing music. Exactly the same. And then technically it doesn't really matter, except that the phone one will be more expensive because it has more features than iPod. So you would base your evaluation on 'well iPod sells more'. What about when this is normal feature in all phones. Would you like to then compare iPod, and cell phones, which one sells more? Yes, you can also include Creative and all other players of this kind to make it fair.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
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Nokia doesn't get it, that players are not a good idea? then how come everyone is doing the same? I disagree, I tihnk it's a must do thing. Unlike cameras, that has proven to be succesful idea.
The only problem I see, is what you mentioned, battery life.. Where Ericsson is going with flash memory you can change, Nokia is going with the HD. I personally think, that it's risky to go with HD at this point, affecting the battery life. People want performance, and performance in people's head is battery life time, not necessarily how much 1s and 0s it can process. HD might be the future, but right now, it's too damn risky IMO. Too much area where you can fail, like well, not being able to solve the battery life problem soon.
As for size, I don't think the problem is there, if you sort out the interface problems. What you can do is put on a navi-button of some sort. Usability is of course top priority.
I think there's definitely a way to make it, but will it be in the first real models? Nah I don't think so.. I think they will suck, but when they have to put more focus on interface, battery life etc, it'll be nice.
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:18
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Honestly, I don't mind having a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none device like the Samsung miniket.
If it delivers "good enough" performance for users, such as myself, for its many things, it's fine--and then, if I want to have something better, I'll invest in a device that does it well.
For instance: I have a laptop. I don't expect power from it, but it's "good enough" to run what I want. For real stuff like gaming, I have a nice computer at home.
If I had a small device that could take photos, phone, video, and mp3 all at "good enough" level, that'd be great. Since out of those, the only one I really care enough about are the photos and video, I'll also invest in a nice DV camcorder and a digital camera.
Will I take the nice stuff around everywhere? No. But I'll take the "good enough" stuff around everywhere with me.
That's what it boils down to--the idea of a swiss army knife.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
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And you just answered your own trashing. Nokia does not consider Samsung to be a super threat here in west, and on the other hand notices it's superiority in the east. Why bother? They would have to make tons of new models, to compete with Samsung, only to gain few percent in the east against Samsung, and maybe because of that losing in overall world wide. It's not even the goal of Nokia to compete with Samsung in new tech. They just want to sell most. You just said it yourself, it doesn't sell so well in here.
As for nGage, everyone knows it's a huge mistake. Most people predicted it to be a huge flop even before it was introduced and sold. So yeah, they didn't get it.
As far as beating the markets in the east, it's not in Japan and battling Samsung. It's in getting the deals in China done. And that's what they're trying to do and have been for the longest, we will see what happens in the future.
And yes most models are fugly. But they still dominate. FACT. They sell more and more every year, of course they lost some of the market share, but not that much, plus they are already preparing for the new generation, basically making strategic moves and trying to come up with solutions for the US markets, where Motorola is strong, and other brands are also doing quite OK, so is Nokia but they wish to do more well, and that's why they have started designing and making new phones just US consumers in their minds, and they are still making the baby steps in that regard and soon I expect them to boom in there better.
So to answer your posts.. nGage a flop. So? Show me a manufacturer who didn't have a flop model.
Battling with Samsung in the east and not really pushing it? So? Only makes sense.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
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Samsung in west < Samsung in east. It's a different story to battle Samsung in either one of them. For battling Samsung in the east, they'd have to come up with new schedule to introducing their phones, and of course step up a notch to bring new technology in phones earlier. This would mean risky business, would it be worth it, I think they're doing a better job at lettign Samsung dominate east and concentrating on the future, China, where the HUGE deals are to be made who ever starts dominating well. Besides, someone is full of crap, since everyoen says well Samsung is dominating my area, Motorola is dominating my area, well how come Nokia is dominating world markets by far with the fugly models? Why does it sell more? And yes, others are catching up, but significant positions are still to be made by anyone.
Yeah, it is considered a vision where mobile device could do things fairly well, however, playing games (nGage) was going to flop for various reasons the music player is not. First of all, there was no support, meaning that you have to make the games for it and all that. And the other thing, there was no .. setting where it would say that if you make it, it will succeed. It was a far reach. Believe me, I don't know anyone who was saying it will succeed. Seems to me anyoen who said that was working for Nokia.
But there are no reasons why mp3player would NOT succeed in a mobile device. Like we have established, the battery life IS a serious issue, other than that, everything is very doable, including easy and good interface.
They're not making iPod here. They're adding a feature to a device. Technically, it's more than just realistical. Comparing to iPod is silly in other ways as well. They have nothing in common, except portability. Would you compare iPod to HiFi stereos? They're not the same product or league.
But where as iPod is a portable player, cell phone can be too, with the same features, excluding battery life.
So yeah, it's a mobile device, why shoukldn't it play songs like the iPod? Why not? What's half assed in listening music? It's not like there are many technical heurekas to be made. And unlike iPod currently, you don't need stinking iTunes, you can just download songs via internet easily. Because it has the connection...
And remember, it's not a competition against iPod. It's competition against OTHER phones. And like I said, other phones are doing the same. So I don't see why you have to be picking on Nokia on this particular issue. Except being extreme brand hater/lover .
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:18
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quote:
And you just answered your own trashing. Nokia does not consider Samsung to be a super threat here in west, and on the other hand notices it's superiority in the east. |
Nokia accepts Samsung's dominance in the East, but does consider Samsung to be dangerous in the West. If they don't, it's to their folly--Samsung is the second/third-largest cellphone manufacturer world-wide (Motorola and Samsung are switching every quarter or so now), and is one of the leaders in both satisfaction and in sales in the United States alone.
http://www.jdpower.com/news/release....asp?ID=2004158
quote:
They just want to sell most. You just said it yourself, it doesn't sell so well in here. |
I didn't say Samsung didn't sell well in the US. I said that Samsung doesn't bring its newest and most feature-filled phones to the US. Why? 1) It uses Korea and Japan as a test market, to try all the brand-spankin' new features the engineers put in, and then they see what sticks. 2) The phone ethic there is different than it is here; Americans look more for style and ease of use rather than new-but-unproven features.
That's one of the big reasons why Nokia's been losing market share in the US, as well: it's not designing for style--people like clamshells here, and Nokia's just released models for it--years late.
quote:
...I think they're doing a better job at lettign Samsung dominate east and concentrating on the future, China, where the HUGE deals are to be made who ever starts dominating well. |
...which is precisely what Samsung and Motorola are doing as well. Currently, Nokia is in the lead, with Motorola and Samsung close behind in dominance. The largest local manufacturer is in a distant 4th, at less than 8%.
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:18
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quote:
But there are no reasons why mp3player would NOT succeed in a mobile device. Like we have established, the battery life IS a serious issue, other than that, everything is very doable, including easy and good interface.
They're not making iPod here. They're adding a feature to a device. Technically, it's more than just realistical. Comparing to iPod is silly in other ways as well. They have nothing in common, except portability. Would you compare iPod to HiFi stereos? They're not the same product or league.
But where as iPod is a portable player, cell phone can be too, with the same features, excluding battery life.
So yeah, it's a mobile device, why shoukldn't it play songs like the iPod? Why not? What's half assed in listening music? It's not like there are many technical heurekas to be made. And unlike iPod currently, you don't need stinking iTunes, you can just download songs via internet easily. Because it has the connection...
And remember, it's not a competition against iPod. It's competition against OTHER phones. And like I said, other phones are doing the same. So I don't see why you have to be picking on Nokia on this particular issue. Except being extreme brand hater/lover |
I'm just saying, this is nothing new to the cell phone world. Nokia is the one here playing technological catch-up.
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28-04-2005 13:50
Why not add in a Swiss army knife?
Samsung and LG are Korean companies. In phone manufacturing, the top three are Nokia (Finland), Motorola (United States), and Samsung (South Korea). Japan's highest is Sony Ericsson, which is also Sweden's; LG is Korean, and Kyocera is Japanese; those three are in the 5-10% bracket, second-stringers.
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