29-04-2005 01:35									#1
	Who Most Influenced History in the Last 500 Years? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If you need info on who is who to make your decision it can be found in this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=132760

As there were more than 24 entries I'll have to make 2 polls.

Last edited by Lancer on 29-04-2005 at 01:58

	29-04-2005 01:55									#2
	Re: Who Most Influence History in the Last 500 Years? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well it's quite obvious it wasn't the guy who kept telling people to shape up and get their thread titles right.

	29-04-2005 01:58									#3
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Looks ok to me...

	29-04-2005 01:59									#4
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Huh, it didn't add the d.

	29-04-2005 02:00									#5
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Adolf Hitler for tarnishing the image of a perfectly good name.

	29-04-2005 02:02									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Looks ok to me...

Tsk, tsk.

Anyway, I was torn between Martin Luther and Adam Smith. But I think at least in my neck of the woods, Luther was the more influential.

BTW, how many Washington's are strictly necessary to have on a poll such as this?

	29-04-2005 02:03									#7
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"BTW, how many Washington's are strictly necessary to have on a poll such as this"

Don't you have anything else to do?

	29-04-2005 02:04									#8
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I'm still not satisfied with those. I'll have to vote at another time.

	29-04-2005 02:05									#9
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Yeah I think Lenin and Marx are d1cks too.

	29-04-2005 02:07									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer "BTW, how many Washington's are strictly necessary to have on a poll such as this" Don't you have anything else to do?

Yes, but this is my lunch hour.

	29-04-2005 02:08									#11
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from those losers?

maybe Newton. Has to be science guy anyway.

	29-04-2005 02:08									#12
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Ricky Henderson??????? I hope we arent talking about the baseball player.

	29-04-2005 02:16									#13
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I'm reading this book, yeah I know Japher can Read?!!!, Anyway, it's called "MBA in a Box" and they start it of by talking about innovation. They say that innovation is not invention. Invention is making something to make something we do easier. Innovation is giving us the ability to do something we never thought we wanted to do.

While things like airplanes, computers, cell phones, etc. are great inventions, it is the innovation of an airline, the uses of computers, the convenience of the cell phones, that are the true innovation. Why should I care if we can fly? Who cares if something can add fast? etc... are questions we need to ask, and when I look at the Wright Brothers as influential with these questions in mind I think they are not so influential. Great inventors, yes, but not much of innovators.

I think Di Vinci was a great inventor, but how many of his inventions were actually used because of him?

All I am saying is that because someone came up with something, or was the first to do something, doesn't necessarily, in my book, make them influential. It would of been just as easy to put that plane on the fire and forget about it. We owe more to Howard Hughes for the influence flight has had on man over the past 100 years than we do to the Wright Bros.

I think all those leaders up there have a good shot at winning.

	29-04-2005 02:41									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Riesstiu IV Adolf Hitler for tarnishing the image of a perfectly good name.

and moustache.

	29-04-2005 02:47									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Yeah I think Lenin and Marx are d1cks too.

Why was Marx a dick?

	29-04-2005 03:09									#16
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Was debating between Hitler and Luther. I have to dissagree that it was Newton (or any other Science guy), as his "discoveries" have always been there. It is only a matter of time as to when they are made. Who make the discovery is ultimately irrelevant. Political movers have far more influence as they have nothing to do with "fundamental laws of nature", but urge, or influence people a certian way.

If Newton had never been born, would be no longer have gravity? No, someone else would have "discovered" it.

If Luther had never been born, would we have the Luthern Church breaking away from the Catholics? That tought to say. It is possible that some other guy would have lead the way, but I'm not sure.

If Hitler had never been, would we still have had WWII? No (IMHO). Germany was in the dumps after WWI. Economicly destroyed. A ruined country. But it was Hitler's political ravings and leadership that focused the smoldering hate that drew the country out of the doldrums and made it a world power again. Then he went ahead and did all those other things that made him so imfamous. None of which were immutable laws of science just waiting to be discovered.

	29-04-2005 03:19									#17
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quote: If Luther had never been born, would we have the Luthern Church breaking away from the Catholics? That tought to say. It is possible that some other guy would have lead the way, but I'm not sure.

Most likely. Since Luthernism was based on a different translation of the same text, I am sure some one else would of done it. Also, with all the sects we have today I doubt everyone would of stayed under the Pope for ever.

Right line of thinking, IMO.

	29-04-2005 03:19									#18
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Luther. He changed the West irrevocably.

	29-04-2005 03:34									#19
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The whole question is naive. There are no geniuses. It's all about larger economic/cultural patterns.

Cheers.

	29-04-2005 04:19									#20
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Another vote for Luther.

	29-04-2005 07:23									#21
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Yes, Luther did have an impact, but like Japher said, Lutherns were probably going break from the Catholics anyway, just under someone elses leadership. It similar to my arguement about not going for scientits. If something was going to happen irregardless of whether or not the historical catalyst was born, then they truely did not have as much of an impact as someone who brought about change that would not have occured if they were not there.

	29-04-2005 08:01									#22
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Luther

	29-04-2005 08:22									#23
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I'm gonna go against the grain and pick Jefferson.

Granted, America has dominated world history for only the last 60 years or so, but he is the man responsible for the ideas that put the whole puppy in motion.

Can't argue with the other choices, though.

	29-04-2005 08:28									#24
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Luther? You must be kidding. The schisms in Christianity were inevitable, especially once moveable type was invented. Being an agent of teh inevitable is not the same as influencing history; in fact, it might be the opposite.

I'm torn between Smith, Marx, Ford, and Freud. I'll vote later.

	29-04-2005 08:34									#25
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Bismarck single-handedly redirected the flow of a mass movement into a very constructive direction. He's the flagship of the Great Individuals theory of history which permits this thread to exist. He gets my vote.

	29-04-2005 11:29									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Luther? You must be kidding. The schisms in Christianity were inevitable, especially once moveable type was invented. Being an agent of teh inevitable is not the same as influencing history; in fact, it might be the opposite.

A schism may have been inevitable, but it wasn't the schism itself that was so grand (or else the Nicean Council which led to the split of the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox would be a bigger story), but the ideas that flowed from Luther's reading. A theory which said the Church should not be involved in the law (similar to Wycliff and Hus, but they wanted the Church out of the temporal sphere, Luther wanted them out of law making in the spiritual sphere as well) and the Prince of the state should be the one totally in charge of dispensing law, consistent with the Decalogue, as well as the catagorization which came from the statement that the Decalogue was to be the basis of all law, was not granted from a split. The idea that only faith can save was also not granted from any split.

Luther's in depth theories had a greater effect on the Western legal tradition as European history than simply a split did.

	30-04-2005 06:53									#27
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Louis Pasteur

His experiments in germ theory laid the cornerstone of modern medicine.

	30-04-2005 18:09									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Louis Pasteur His experiments in germ theory laid the cornerstone of modern medicine.

Which, again, was an inevitable event regardless of who did it.

	30-04-2005 18:21									#29
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Donegeal, that's actually a great point... I sometimes use the same argument when people get all creamy about some scientist who supposedly peed on this rock someone touched yesterday and took a picture. I mean, without Edison, without all folks, we'd still have the same applications today most likely. They might be even better. But all in all pretty much same would be right now.

Then I have to say Marx, for coming up with things that would ruin the world for many many years still to come.

	30-04-2005 18:25									#30
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Einstein