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Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
Or Barry Goldwater. *vomit* |
The man had some good ideas.
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"However, on religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'" |
- Barry Goldwater
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Patroklos
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Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:18
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quote:
I have never heard any top military explaning that protecting the SV without invading NV was not feasible : first military failure. |
Thats because for any military official of any rank to publicly say something like that, which is a complete about face of what their civilian bosses say, is against the rules. Remember McArther.
However the suggestion to invade the North was brought up at nauseum by the military throughout the war.
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The military got 99.9% of what it wanted |
Whats the good of having it if you won't let them use it?
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The only part of NV that was off limits to aerial bombing was a ten-mile corridor along the China-Vietnam border |
Nice selective time keeping. This was only true during the line-backers. For the vast majority of the war most of NV was off limits, for years at a time.
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They say that today, but at the time the military firmly believed that invading the North would invite a Chinese response. Only a couple of years ago |
I love how you rail against conservative storytelling by bringing the classic liberal not-ahh arguemnet. You are bringing out the same flavor liberal auto response.
Amazing that the vast majority of military historians disagree with you.
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Finally, 95% of the people of South Vietnam opposed the Southern dictatorship |
I notice you went from arbirarily stating 99% to 95% to try and give your imaginary story a little believability. But if you were going to do something like that, why not something that doesn't automatically set off the BS alarm like 85% or 80%?
The fact is everytime all out bombing of the North was conducted NV ran to the negoriating table. the Viet Cong had nothing to lose, but Hanoi had done pretty good for themselves since independance and were not willing to see their country go up in smoke.
A political victory against the North was possible. And lets not forget about the pitiful state of the Veit Cong by the time of the pullout. There is a reason that NV regulars were taking up the slack south of the DMZ in the end.
And btw, if the only way to win the war was to invade the North thus provoking a Chinese/Russian response ergo WWIII, it is again the politicians fault for getting the military involved in such a situation.
Last edited by Patroklos on 01-05-2005 at 20:57
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Max Webster
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
They are all gung ho flag waving pickup driving good ole' boys.
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Alot of them are just very young men who don't know any better. They don't think too much about the political end of it. They want a job, a good life, the american dream, they think the military can help provide that for them. Sometimes it does, sometimes it puts them six feet under the ground.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Kennedy couldn't have gone to China, only someone like Nixon or Reagan could, since they wouldn't be accused of being soft on Communism. |
Che, you have your era mixed. At the time, Kennedy was considered a hardliner on communism. He was even more of a hardliner than Nixon and that is why he won the election of 1960. Democrats did not become the party of appeasement until 1968.
Last edited by Ned on 01-05-2005 at 21:14
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd
No? The soviet Union ultimately collapsed through "appeasment" India became independant due to "appeasement", and that's only two examples... not to say that my "foreign policy" revolves around what you call appeasement.
What has the idea of brute force to solve everything achieved in the past century? WW1, WW2 and the holocaust, korea, vietnam, afghanistan, ect... all of which has failed to solve the problems it set out to, and lead to more and more and more problems later on. |
I gave you whole series of examples of how conservatives have a much more sophisticated foreign policy than the Democrats in reply to summarizing conservative foreign policy as nothing more than using brute force and then criticizing that policy as being Neanderthal or probably simplistic. What you do here, GL, is nothing more to setting up a strawman and then knocking it down.
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01-05-2005 05:56
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