 |
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
TechWins
|
 |
Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:18
|
|
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Myrddin
Preview from PC Zone
Written by RTS players so there will be a slant but there seem to be a LOT of changes
>>Game length
>>Aiming to reduce to 400 turns from 550 in CivIII
>>Game speed
>>3 levels - quick, medium and epic
How does slowing down the process of building units and constructing improvements add to the game? It just seems like a bogged down version of Civ rather than making it a more in-depth (epic) game. For instance, the purpose of Caravels will be just as purposeful in the ratio of turns in medium speed as it would be in epic speed, because it relates to the amount of turns not the production ability for each turn. I would like to hear some clarification on this; I could very well be interpreting this all wrong.
>>Victory conditions
>>Spaceship, Conquest, Domination, Culture (with 3 cities with near perfect culture) and Diplomatic
The same victory possibilities but are they the same victory conditions? The Culture one at the very least isn't the same condition, so that sounds somewhat promising.
>>Tech tree
>>'more flexible, .. one tree not split into eras'
GREAT! I hate the restricted Civ3 tech tree as opposed to the free flowing nature of the Civ2 tree.
>>Graphics
>>3D with zoom
>>Much more detail on the landscape eg 'pastures, >>wineries, watermills and windmills all represented in >>detail, ... with smoke billowing from a factory'
>>Style - see previous screenshots
Great for syle points; I think it adds immensely to the game with those miniture details being added, albeit they are graphical details. Plus it is completely necessary for there to be more than the 2 (ridiculous) zoom levels that were in Civ3 -- Civ2 had it perfect with the zoom levels.
>>Interface
>>'familiar to anyone who has dabbled with RTS'
If this means it is more conducive to fluid gameplay I am all for it. 
>>Religion
>>7 real world religions; including Christianity and >>Buddhism
>>No religion bonuses but 'associations with certain >>technologies'
This is so much as I would assume in regard to Religion. I thought the other possiblity may be to include religious types (i.e. monotheism, polytheism, et al). I imagine, or rather hope, the modding capabilities will allow for bonuses and disadvantages to be included with a religion.
My guess on the 7 religions at this point would be:
Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Paganism (Greeks, Egyptians), Animism (American and African), and if not either Confucianism, Taoism, or Shinto (to help include another Asian religion) then Atheism. I don't see Judaism being included, since there likely won't be a Civ to represent the religion. Under the first 6 religions and the 7th being Atheism each religion or religioun type could be represented by a Civ.
>>Resources
>>31
It will be interesting to see the next step forward in the entire resource system.
>>Civs
>>19
There has already been a lot of speculation about this and in fact, it is essentially a moot point.
>>Civ leaders
>>28 including Ghandi, Cyrus and Montezuma; traits are >>associated with leaders
>>Unclear whether you can choose the leader for your >>civ
I like this very much, so as long as the latter statement is determined to be true.
>>Great people
>>5 categories - artist,tycoon,prophet,engineer, >>scientist
>>Probably triggered by city performance in each >>category
>>Benefits available 3 or 4 for each person, including >>culture boost, academies, multiple golden ages,free >>techs
>>Plato, Shakespeare,Newton, Einstein, Michalangelo
This is exactly what I was referring to in the Cultural Icons thread I started. Fantastic.
>>Combat
>>Gain experience points for winning battles, more if >>odds are against them
>>Each level increase allows choice of extra abilities eg >>using enemy roads, bonus attack in cities, moving >>faster in forests
>>'end-up with high-level units with specific abilities'
I like what I am hearing here a lot! The more diversity within the game the better; I just hope the special abilities you can choose are equally balanced depending on each unit.
>>Governments
>>No set government styles
>>Can choose attitude on such items as free markets, >>environment,slavery, conscription, emancipation
I would rather there be a set government and then from there choose specific traits. Democracy - set traits towards being socialist or capitalist ... Monarchy - set traits towards being authoritian or just (lack thereof a better term). Communism - set traits towards being communal or totalitarian. etc...
>>Health
>>Important factor alongside happiness and money
I am assuming this is a step forward beyond the measely system of disease of Civ3.
>>Moddability
>>Good, including AI
Wahooo!
>>Multiplayer
>>LAN, Internet, PBEM and Persistent Turn-Based >>Servers
>>Currently Wednesday nights at Firaxis
Is this included in Civ4 or Civ4: Screw the World? 
>>Screenshots include...
I sure would like to see those...
>>Edit - from another thread units have a single >>strength factor not seperate A/D values
>>Scout 1
>>Chariot 4
>>Spearman 4
That is sort of surprising to see. Plus Chariot and Spearman have the same attack value. Adding up the A/D values from Civ3 the Chariot would have a 2 and the Spearman would have a 3. At these current rates for units I'm guessing tanks will have something in the 40-50s range. I suppose that would quell the rarest occurrences of an impossible defeat of a tank from a spearman.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
lillefix
|
|
I just want to answer your question about the length of the game. The single reason for shortening the game is multiplayer. And I think that is a rather good reason.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Locutus
|
|
ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
|
 |
Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
|
|
The point of shorter games is that they are better for MP.
The point of longer games is that they create longer lasting games, which means the pace of the game lies lower. Building and researching stuff takes longer but there are also more turns, so you get more time to actually use the stuff you build.
The difference for gameplay isn't huge, but it feels very different. Try playing RoN at the highest pace and then at the lowest. Going from the Stone Age to the Modern Age in the space of an hour doesn't feel very epic. Doing so in half a day does (or more so anyway).
Also, on big maps everything goes faster, as you have more cities, more units, more resources, more workers, more civs to trade with, etc. So you have more income, science is goes faster and worst comes to worst you'll reach the end of the tech tree before 500 AD (sound familiar?) Having the option to slow things down in that case would be useful.
Oh, and atheism is not a religion (why do people keep pretending it is?)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
TechWins
|
|
Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Locutus
The point of longer games is that they create longer lasting games, which means the pace of the game lies lower. Building and researching stuff takes longer but there are also more turns, so you get more time to actually use the stuff you build.
Oh, and atheism is not a religion (why do people keep pretending it is?) |
So there will be more turns availablef or the epic game? If there will be, then I love the idea. I may have missed where that was mentioned.
Of course, atheism, is not a religion, but that does not mean it cannot be used to delegate a nation's particular view of religion. For instance, the United States could be regarded as prodominant Christian nation, and conversely, the USSR could have have been regarded as an atheist view of religion. For the most part, though, atheism would only be needed for Russia at best, and I would think Russia should be considered under the Christian label in Civ4. I'm not sure, myself, what the 7th "religion" will be. The first 6 religions I mentioned will surely have to be included based on the likely to be included Civs. Any ideas yourself on the 7th religion?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Locutus
|
|
ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
|
|
Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
|
|
quote:
Of course, atheism, is not a religion, but that does not mean it cannot be used to delegate a nation's particular view of religion. |
Atheism is the lack of religion. Atheists don't share a view of religion, to say that they do is like saying religious followers (whether Christian or Shinto or indigenous African) share the same views. There as many different kinds of atheists as there are religions or interpretations of religions.
From a gameplay point of view, presumably you don't start with any religion, you have to somehow 'earn' one, by research or gaining great prophets or otherwise. In the early game that could be said to represent the kind of primitive naturalistic religions that tribes had before they developed more sophisticated organised forms of faith. Towards the late game you could have religions (partially) 'obsolete' in some way, and you might end up without religions again: atheism.
I don't know if the game does work that way but it very well could...
As for which religions might be included, the list of possibilities is endless, even excluding cultural-specific religions such as Egyptian, Greek, Viking, Mayan, etc pantheons. But there are about 11 religions that are generally considered 'classical' world religions; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahá'í, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Confusianism, Taoism, Shinto. Add Sikhism to that list (one of the largest religions in the world today) and you have 12 excellent choices. It then becomes a problem of elimination rather than addition 
I don't see why the list of religions would in any way have to be related to the list of civs. That's not how it works in the real world. As you pointed out, there are no real atheist nations anywhere in the world today, nor have there ever been (though communist Russia is probably indeed the closest thing to it), yet with well over a billion 'followers', atheism is the 3rd largest 'belief system' today, after Christiany and Islam. For most of history not a single country in the world was Jewish, yet Judaism has for millenia been in the top 10 of the world's largest religions.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
TechWins
|
|
Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:18
|
|
Locutus,
To precise the definition of atheism, it is not the lack of a religion, yet it is the disbelief in a god or gods. For example, Siddhartha Gautama (sp?) (Buddha) could be considered an atheist to a certain extent, but does that mean he does not believe in a particular religion? At any rate, though, our discussion on atheism is purely semantics and not necessary to further it.
I agree from a gameplay point of view each Civ should not start off with a religion, albeit historically inaccurate.
Well, it is rather obvious the list of choices of religions is endless, but that depends how specific you want to get. I believe the list of religions may be related to the list of Civs in that it will already be predertimened which religion type a Civ will become. Accordingly, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, and Animism could possibly under a big generalization represent all 19 Civs. Atheism could be the 7th religion type (under the pretense of game terms), but as you pointed out and as I have as well in the religions thread there are many other viable choices. For one could be pantheism, which I believe is very closely related to the Shinto belief system in Japan.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
CiverDan
|
|
I dont mind taking out the last 150 turns. For SP, these last 150 turns are simply a milk fest. Most MP advance to fast tech wise for this date to be a factor either. I dont know if i like the removal or government per se, Al though i guess they will be represented by the other choices you make.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Max Sinister
|
|
Bahai is classical? It's pretty young compared to other religions. When I went to school, I didn't even know it existed.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Adm.Naismith
|
 |
Milano - Italy
Oct 1999
time: 06:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by TechWins
At any rate, though, our discussion on atheism is purely semantics and not necessary to further it.
I agree from a gameplay point of view each Civ should not start off with a religion, albeit historically inaccurate.
Well, it is rather obvious the list of choices of religions is endless, but that depends how specific you want to get. I believe the list of religions may be related to the list of Civs in that it will already be predertimened which religion type a Civ will become. Accordingly, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, and Animism could possibly under a big generalization represent all 19 Civs. Atheism could be the 7th religion type (under the pretense of game terms)... |
I agree with you: we can spend months debating about the correct definition and effects of religions/believs, but that's already better managed at different places, on more deep level and with higher results.
IMHO, as you suggested, we should keep considering if this "culture effect" can add more benefit for the game point of view than the Civ III culture / SMAC social model. I hope so.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18.
Apolyton Time is 00:18. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
02-05-2005 00:38
. They always look fun at the very least, so should be useful too.
|