01-05-2005 01:31									#1
	PC Zone preview -lots of new info Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Preview from PC Zone

Written by RTS players so there will be a slant but there seem to be a LOT of changes

Game length
Aiming to reduce to 400 turns from 550 in CivIII

Victory conditions
Spaceship, Conquest, Domination, Culture (with 3 cities with near perfect culture) and Diplomatic

Game speed
3 levels - quick, medium and epic

Start
Can start in a particular era

Tech tree
'more flexible, .. one tree not split into eras'

Graphics
3D with zoom
Much more detail on the landscape eg 'pastures, wineries, watermills and windmills all represented in detail, ... with smoke billowing from a factory'
Style - see previous screenshots

Interface
'familiar to anyone who has dabbled with RTS'

Religion
7 real world religions; including Christianity and Buddhism
No religion bonuses but 'associations with certain technologies'

Resources
31

Civs
19

Civ leaders
28 including Ghandi, Cyrus and Montezuma; traits are associated with leaders
Unclear whether you can choose the leader for your civ

City limit
None

Great people
5 categories - artist,tycoon,prophet,engineer, scientist
Probably triggered by city performance in each category
Benefits available 3 or 4 for each person, including culture boost, academies, multiple golden ages,free techs
Plato, Shakespeare,Newton, Einstein, Michalangelo

Combat
Gain experience points for winning battles, more if odds are against them
Each level increase allows choice of extra abilities eg using enemy roads, bonus attack in cities, moving faster in forests
'end-up with high-level units with specific abilities'

Governments
No set government styles
Can choose attitude on such items as free markets, environment,slavery, conscription, emancipation

Health
Important factor alongside happiness and money

Moddability
Good, including AI

Multiplayer
LAN, Internet, PBEM and Persistent Turn-Based Servers
Currently Wednesday nights at Firaxis

Screenshots include
Japan and Persia
Spearman, Chariot, Scout, Galleys, Knights
Bronze Working
Units tagged by type eg spearman (melee unit)
spearman has 100% bonus against horse units

Edit - from another thread units have a single strength factor not seperate A/D values
Scout 1
Chariot 4
Spearman 4

Last edited by Myrddin on 01-05-2005 at 13:59

	01-05-2005 02:35									#2
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Wow, great stuff! Thanks for the info, Myrddin!

Great people sound interesting.

And governments, can anyone say Social Engineering?

So, 7 religions, 31 resources, 19 civs, 28 leaders. Let the guessing games begin

	01-05-2005 03:11									#3
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Alright, some of these news are good. Especially the government part, sounds like SE from SMAC. I hope the RPG elements in combat won't be too heavy for units, but gaining experience and bonuses does sound good. After all, in history, units that won tough battle did indeed become better because of the experience gained.

The interface we have seen in some screens... it looks a lot like AoE2. Not a bad thing per se, but I hope Civ4 doesn't become a RTS gameplay-wise. I still think we don't need 3D graphics and eye-candy zoom, but I can live with that. As long as it doesn't have ridicilous system requirements which would be simply wrong.

	01-05-2005 04:23									#4
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I really like the sound of the governments part
I'm a bit unsure about the rpg'ish combat. It could work, but it could also make it worse

quote: City limit None

quote: Civ leaders 28 including Ghandi, Cyrus and Montezuma; traits are associated with leaders Unclear whether you can choose the leader for your civ

There's 19 Civs but 28 leaders? Does that mean nationX can have two different leaders so nationX acts differently in game1 compared to game2? And by the sound of this there'll be 10 nations with only 1 leader

quote: Game speed 3 levels - quick, medium and epic

Game speed?
Isn't this a turn based game where you (in SP) can have as long turns as you want?

quote: Game length Aiming to reduce to 400 turns from 550 in CivIII

I'm not sure if this is a good idea. Often when playing Civ games I've felt the time between getting a unit until that unit becomes obsolete was too short. Taking away 150 turns will only make this worse

	01-05-2005 04:44									#5
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As a democracy game player I'd applaud more RPG elements and special abilities for each unit. Then each DG player can command their own very unique unit.

	01-05-2005 06:06									#6
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Great stuff. Get those screenshots scanned

I guess there will be a female and a male leader for each civ.

I hope epic really is epic. I want to play month long games.

	01-05-2005 06:13									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio quote: Game length Aiming to reduce to 400 turns from 550 in CivIII I'm not sure if this is a good idea. Often when playing Civ games I've felt the time between getting a unit until that unit becomes obsolete was too short. Taking away 150 turns will only make this worse

I agree, and I don't think it's a good idea at all, but I know I'm in the minority. I would prefer a game that lasts weeks, and not because of lack of time to play it, or because it takes 30 minutes per turn for the AI, just because I like long, in-depth games that have lots of "history" to them. 1000+ turns would be great , and I'm already in the planning stages for a mod that will achieve this.

You hear that Soren? Don't put a limit on the number of turns possible in a mod this time around! And do your best not to put low limits on anything at all.

	01-05-2005 07:05									#8
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Not coming here regularly for a while, I've only just discovered the previews, and many things sound quite interesting, like experience points. But I'd also like to be able to get units that start off good because of their training, like in Alpha Centauri when you had a +5 Morale modifier. I remember finding the combat in Civilization III extremely difficult, especially in the early ages and even on low difficulty levels (yes, I suck) so I'd hope it's a little more aggressor-friendly the fourth time around.

	01-05-2005 09:03									#9
	Re: PC Zone preview Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Great info.

quote: Originally posted by Myrddin Start Can start in a particular era

Hope this is an accelerated start and not a settler on a developed continent.

quote: Originally posted by Myrddin Religion 7 real world religions; including Christianity and Buddhism

Careful modeling Islam. Don't want to see a fatwa on Sid.

quote: Originally posted by Myrddin City limit None

I imagine this refers to the 512 limit in C3C.

quote: Originally posted by Myrddin spearman has 100% bonus against horse units

And tanks?

	01-05-2005 10:21									#10
	Re: Re: PC Zone preview Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 And tanks?

ROTFLO


My guess will be musketeers will be able to take them out..

but the spearman will be fixed

	01-05-2005 10:30									#11
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The link http://www.pczone.co.uk/

after searching by title, go to news for more


The screenie ...filth try again

Last edited by Platypus Rex on 01-05-2005 at 10:39

	01-05-2005 10:32									#12
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The screenie

nothing at Firaxis yet

Attachment: civ4.jpg
This has been downloaded 337 time(s).

	01-05-2005 10:44									#13
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No Idea who Civrules is, but there is info there

tread at your own risk

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108315

	01-05-2005 10:44									#14
	Re: Re: PC Zone preview Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Careful modeling Islam. Don't want to see a fatwa on Sid.

I'm sure they'll do what they can to make Islam look better than Christianity.

	01-05-2005 11:27									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Platypus Rex http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108315

Awesome info. I hope I won't have to learn computer programming to do most of the modding.

	01-05-2005 14:30									#16
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You don't need to go to CFC for that kind of info, we have that right here at Apolyton, and here it's more complete too

	01-05-2005 14:43									#17
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quote: Originally posted by alms66 I agree, and I don't think it's a good idea at all, but I know I'm in the minority. I would prefer a game that lasts weeks, and not because of lack of time to play it, or because it takes 30 minutes per turn for the AI, just because I like long, in-depth games that have lots of "history" to them. 1000+ turns would be great , and I'm already in the planning stages for a mod that will achieve this. You hear that Soren? Don't put a limit on the number of turns possible in a mod this time around! And do your best not to put low limits on anything at all.

I think perhaps "game speed" refers to the number of turns the game lasts, so that the default is 400 turns per game with the "Epic" perhaps being the length of turns we are used to?

	01-05-2005 15:45									#18
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quote: Can choose attitude on such items as free markets, environment,slavery, conscription, emancipation

Hmm, these don't really sound like things for which you can choose ideologies like you had in SMAC.
For example you're either for or against Free Market, or Slavery, or you're environmently friendly or not.
And it says "on such items as"...so there are more things like this.
I don't really see them fitting in a SMAC-like system where you pick ideologies, but instead it sounds more like a slider system where you can set whether you're for or against a wide variety of issues.

I hope i'm wrong...i'd prefer choosing set ideologies like in SMAC...sliders might be more freeform but they don't give the same feel as picking ideologies.

	01-05-2005 16:37									#19
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I'm really starting to like this game. Sounds really good.

	01-05-2005 17:20									#20
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My guess about "game speed" would be that it doesn't impact any "speed" directly (this is TBS after all), but will impact various values in the game. For instance, the fast game speed could mean tech research and production costs halved, maybe road movement going from say 1/3 to 1/5. If that's the case, the options would even be interesting for some different style, and would certainly appeal to many non-hardcore players who want a faster-paced game.

	01-05-2005 17:24									#21
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From the other thread:

quote: - There will three game lengths: a short one (that can be finished in a few hours), a "normal" one (about 15 to 20 hours to play), and a really big one...

I assume this is talking about the game speed
IMHO they should have used the word "game length" instead of "game speed"

	01-05-2005 17:36									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio quote: Civ leaders 28 including Ghandi, Cyrus and Montezuma; traits are associated with leaders Unclear whether you can choose the leader for your civ There's 19 Civs but 28 leaders? Does that mean nationX can have two different leaders so nationX acts differently in game1 compared to game2? And by the sound of this there'll be 10 nations with only 1 leader quote: Game speed 3 levels - quick, medium and epic Game speed? Isn't this a turn based game where you (in SP) can have as long turns as you want?

Re: the leaders, I hope it means I can play the different civs in different ways. The best would be if we could choose the leader of out civ completely freely, ie a Genghis Khan of the Egyptians.

Re: gamespeed, perhaps it means number of turns?

	01-05-2005 17:52									#23
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As long as we can play the game at the original Civ pacing, I'm happy. 15-20 hours per a game sounds OK, typically being the length of my games. Here's hoping it can still be that way.

	01-05-2005 19:17									#24
	Re: PC Zone preview -lots of new info Increase Your PM Length

Here were my automatic reactions:

quote: Game length Aiming to reduce to 400 turns from 550 in CivIII

-> Yipi.

quote: Interface 'familiar to anyone who has dabbled with RTS'

-> Any Terran or Protoss speaking in a box, with a Kain-style leader?...

quote: Resources 31

-> Horray!

quote: Governments No set government styles Can choose attitude on such items as free markets, environment,slavery, conscription, emancipation

-> God praise Firaxis!! All camping in front of their office!

OVERALL -> Potentially good vintage coming, with some sugar in the wine to make it sell more easily. Not too much content dilution, whattever the gift-package form. Looks like a Porto

	01-05-2005 19:38									#25
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OK, first up, I do NOT like the fact that they seem to be keeping all the victory conditions the same-and that it seems like culture is going to work in an identical fashion to how it did in civ3 (really felt that this needed to be revamped). Also REALLY don't like the single unit strength-this is too simplistic for my liking (really wanted Firepower back-if anything) and am VERY opposed to both Realworld religions (wanted generic religions which the player could name) and its associations with the tech tree.
Everything else, though, sounds pretty cool. Though, I do hope that the leaders of AI civs will ADAPT to their differing situations in each game-so that each leader doesn't become too predictable.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	01-05-2005 19:43									#26
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quote: am VERY opposed to both Realworld religions (wanted generic religions which the player could name)

With all data in XML, you can rename the religions easily.

	01-05-2005 19:57									#27
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker OK, first up, I do NOT like the fact that they seem to be keeping all the victory conditions the same-and that it seems like culture is going to work in an identical fashion to how it did in civ3 (really felt that this needed to be revamped). Also REALLY don't like the single unit strength-this is too simplistic for my liking (really wanted Firepower back-if anything) and am VERY opposed to both Realworld religions (wanted generic religions which the player could name) and its associations with the tech tree. Everything else, though, sounds pretty cool. Though, I do hope that the leaders of AI civs will ADAPT to their differing situations in each game-so that each leader doesn't become too predictable. Yours, Aussie_Lurker.

I also wondered on the victory part...
As for combat, I am happy as long as it works really.
When it comes to religions, I agree wholeheartly! Oh, if they only had made some random generated religions as in the old List for Civ3...
The single most positive info so far is that SE will be implemented though, that almost does it for me.

All in all, I'm very excited so far.

	01-05-2005 23:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker OK, first up, I do NOT like the fact that they seem to be keeping all the victory conditions the same-and that it seems like culture is going to work in an identical fashion to how it did in civ3 (really felt that this needed to be revamped). Also REALLY don't like the single unit strength-this is too simplistic for my liking (really wanted Firepower back-if anything) and am VERY opposed to both Realworld religions (wanted generic religions which the player could name) and its associations with the tech tree. Everything else, though, sounds pretty cool. Though, I do hope that the leaders of AI civs will ADAPT to their differing situations in each game-so that each leader doesn't become too predictable. Yours, Aussie_Lurker.

actually, there is firepower in Civ4 (meaning, the amount of damage a unit does (in hit points) is relative to their strength...) I wouldn't say that combat has been simplified - I wouldn't say it's more complex either. It IS significantly different, though.

	02-05-2005 00:20									#29
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Hi Soren . Great news on that. So will we really have to use different units this time around, or will huge groups of one unit still work perfectly, as previously?

	02-05-2005 00:23									#30
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Soren sighting!

Thanks for the input Soren.