03-05-2005 22:20									#61
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"These are not attributes valued by the left, who prefer bold rhetoric and meek actions."



We all know that what we really needed was a few hundred more security council resolutions. Saddam would have been severely bored by lots and lots of irresolute resolutions.

	03-05-2005 22:20									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer "Regardless of what Che says, I have many times heard the Clinton tape where he says he was offered OBL." Ned, that's true. However consider...he's not really a reliable source.

I wonder why Clinton said it then? He is not a team player when everyone else on his team denies what he admits.

	03-05-2005 22:22									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Regardless of what Che says, I have many times heard the Clinton tape where he says he was offered OBL.

So he was wrong. The United States was never offered OBL. The offer was to hand over OBL to Saudi Arabia in 1996 in exchange for taking the genocidal, mass murdering, terrorism exporting Sudanese government off the list of terrorism sponsoring countries. Saudi Arabia refused to take custody of him, so even if the U.S. wanted to accept, which would have been a terrible decision, it made no difference.

At this time, bin Laden was a relatively minor figure in the terrorism world. We were after bigger fish, like Ramsey Yusef, the guy who made the orginal plans to fly airliners into buildings. Bin Laden was a shadowy figure possibly behind the Khobar Towers bombing in Arabia. He wasn't very important until two years later, with the embassy bombings.

So yet again, the facts are against you, Ned.

BTW, we got Ramsey Yusef in prison.

	03-05-2005 22:24									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer "These are not attributes valued by the left, who prefer bold rhetoric and meek actions." We all know that what we really needed was a few hundred more security council resolutions. Saddam would have been severely bored by lots and lots of irresolute resolutions.

I assure you, that is what the left "really" wanted. A lot of bluster from the UN, but no serious consequences.

Looking back, after that great inauguration speech, Kennedy's actions at the Bay of Pigs was totally inexplicable. He even admits that he failed and that his failure led to the commies becoming aggressive across the world. The Berlin Wall and Vietnam are direct consequences of the Bay of Pigs.

	03-05-2005 22:24									#65
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"I wonder why Clinton said it then? He is not a team player when everyone else on his team denies what he admits."

Ned, best I can figure is that he forgot what he wasn't supposed to know and therefore didn't have a full knowledge of what didn't happen, which he needed in order cover his ass.

	03-05-2005 22:26									#66
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Che, I know you think that this is what happened, but it conflicts with what Clinton said.

	03-05-2005 22:30									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Che, I know you think that this is what happened, but it conflicts with what Clinton said.

So what? The facts disagree with him.

	03-05-2005 22:31									#68
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So what? The facts disagree with him.

I don't remember the details, but the Sudanese put a price on the offer that Clinton found unacceptable. I think it had something to do with dropping sanctions.

	03-05-2005 22:32									#69
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You don't even read what I write if it's longer than a single line, do you?

	03-05-2005 22:33									#70
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Back to the thread title... You have any idea what Jamaica is like outside the tourist ghetto's?

	03-05-2005 22:34									#71
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"So what? The facts disagree with him."

Right! This has never slowed down the left before.

	03-05-2005 22:47									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer "So what? The facts disagree with him." Right! This has never slowed down the left before.

Actually, it does. The right is the side that, when confronted with the facts, tends to go on about they own fantasy version of events.

	03-05-2005 22:49									#73
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You don't even read what I write if it's longer than a single line, do you?

I'm sorry, Che, but you are right. They wanted to be taken off the terrorism list. But the original offer was to hand OBL over to US with that condition attached. Clinton then urged Sudan to hand him over to the Saudi's, no conditions attached. IIRC, Clinton said that Saudi Arabia did not want him.

	03-05-2005 22:50									#74
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"Actually, it does. The right is the side that, when confronted with the facts, tends to go on about they own fantasy version of events."

Not really.

	03-05-2005 22:51									#75
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At least, we whitewashed Sudan of all its crimes in exchange of a terrorist that looked relatively harmless

	03-05-2005 22:54									#76
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Why hand OBL over to the U.S., when up to that point, he'd only ever committed crimes on Saudi soil. Despite killing Americans, AFAIK, he broke no American laws.

This is what wiki has to say:

quote: Sudanese officials offered to extradite bin Laden to either the United States or Saudi Arabia in the mid-1990s.[4] (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/.../9/165600.shtml) However, the U.S. had no legal grounds to hold bin Laden and thus refused to accept him; Saudi Arabia refused because of the political difficulties of accepting such a controversial figure into their custody.

	03-05-2005 22:55									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Not really.

Yes, really. No matter how many times you get confronted with the fafcts about the offer to hand bin Laden over to Clinton, you continue to repeat the lies anyway.

	03-05-2005 22:56									#78
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"Yes, really. No matter how many times you get confronted with the fafcts about the offer to hand bin Laden over to Clinton, you continue to repeat the lies anyway."



Nope!

	03-05-2005 22:58									#79
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Yes to infinty +1.

	03-05-2005 23:02									#80
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"Yes to infinty +1."

****! Che finally whipped me in an arguement!

	03-05-2005 23:06									#83
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Che, that Wiki article is pretty much what Clinton said. You're statements about these events always denies that Sudan made an offer to the US. You never, ever say that the offer was DECLINED as recited by Wiki and by Clinton himself.

	03-05-2005 23:10									#84
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My previous sources said that the offer was made to turn OBL over to the Saudis, not to the U.S. The wiki article makes it clear the U.S. had no choice, but right-wingers always make it look like Clinton deliberately let bin Laden go.

	03-05-2005 23:16									#85
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Last edited by Ned on 03-05-2005 at 23:41

	03-05-2005 23:18									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Ned "Just a year before the 1976 trade deadline, Finley had led a group of dissident owners in trying to get Kuhn fired. Among the owners in that group — George Steinbrenner, who had recently been banned from day-to-day involvement with his team by Kuhn for his Watergate-related conviction. If Kuhn was inclined to look at any Finley moves with a jaundiced eye — and he was — the involvement of Steinbrenner was “like waving a red flag” in front of the commissioner, Heylar writes." http://sports.intertext.com/archives/000714.html

Wrong thread, Ned.

	03-05-2005 23:25									#87
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nm

Last edited by Ned on 03-05-2005 at 23:42

	03-05-2005 23:36									#88
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Last edited by Ned on 03-05-2005 at 23:42

	03-05-2005 23:38									#89
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WRONG THREAD, NED!

	03-05-2005 23:38									#90
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Last edited by Ned on 03-05-2005 at 23:43