09-05-2005 09:20									#211
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But they sang one about Istanbul.

	09-05-2005 09:37									#212
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Righteous defenders of all that is good and just in the world.

Thanks che, I needed a laugh tonight

	09-05-2005 09:42									#213
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quote: Yalta was a big American mistake, which led to the oppression of Central and Eastern Europe. It's important to ackowledge that as a mistake.

No it wasn't. FDR lying about it to the American people afterwards was the mistake. He pretended that he hadn't agreed to what he agreed. Part of the reason for the acceptance of spheres of influence (other than the facts on the ground, and the fact that the USSR did most to beat Hitler) the cession of Eastern Europe to Soviet control was the price that FDR was willing to pay to secure Soviet co-operation with regard to the UN and the new international order.

But when Stalin just did what they had all agreed on, the west pretended they hadn't agreed on it at all and started the Cold War by mouthing off. The weird thing is that Stalin of all people was the one who had originally kept to his side of the bargain.

If the US had been able to just accept the realpolitik of the situation the Cold War may never have happened, and the nations of Eastern Europe would probably have been in a much better position after Stalin died (he was a loony after all).

The Cold War was wholly unnecessary.

	09-05-2005 09:43									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Thanks che, I needed a laugh tonight

Just doin' my part to make the world a little better, sir.

	09-05-2005 10:38									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Che, those are the facts.

In regards to the Mexican War -- those are not facts that you stated -- they are merely assertions that I like to call bullsh*t.

	09-05-2005 12:16									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Yalta was a big American mistake, which led to the oppression of Central and Eastern Europe. It's important to ackowledge that as a mistake. No it wasn't. FDR lying about it to the American people afterwards was the mistake. He pretended that he hadn't agreed to what he agreed. Part of the reason for the acceptance of spheres of influence (other than the facts on the ground, and the fact that the USSR did most to beat Hitler) the cession of Eastern Europe to Soviet control was the price that FDR was willing to pay to secure Soviet co-operation with regard to the UN and the new international order. But when Stalin just did what they had all agreed on, the west pretended they hadn't agreed on it at all and started the Cold War by mouthing off. The weird thing is that Stalin of all people was the one who had originally kept to his side of the bargain. If the US had been able to just accept the realpolitik of the situation the Cold War may never have happened, and the nations of Eastern Europe would probably have been in a much better position after Stalin died (he was a loony after all). The Cold War was wholly unnecessary.

In a sense, you are right. It is interesting, is it not, that Ike chose to scrupulously respect the Yalta agreements and the new order agreed to at that conference. It ushered in a long period of good relations between the USSR and the US, until the U2 incident.

	09-05-2005 12:55									#217
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Che, the so-called "disputed territories" were legally part of the territory of Texas we ceded to Mexico in 1819. The State of Texas encompassed the territory North of the Rio Grande. Texas was at war with Mexico, beginning in 1836. At the time of annexation by the US, Mexico was in possession of the "disputed" territories, but the war with Texas continued.

When the US annexed Texas, it also annexed a pre-existing war. The move of the US army into the disputed territories was not an invasion of Mexico, but a move of our army to the border of the Republic of Texas which was co-extensive with the borders of the State of Texas and the land we had ceded to Mexico in 1819. Thereupon, the Mexican army attacked, and the war began in ernest. But in truth, Congress knew it was buy a war when it annexed Texas:

http://texinfo.library.unt.edu/anne...es/atpm0143.pdf

	09-05-2005 13:41									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Che, the so-called "disputed territories" were legally part of the territory of Texas we ceded to Mexico in 1819. The State of Texas encompassed the territory North of the Rio Grande. Texas was at war with Mexico, beginning in 1836. At the time of annexation by the US, Mexico was in possession of the "disputed" territories, but the war with Texas continued. When the US annexed Texas, it also annexed a pre-existing war. The move of the US army into the disputed territories was not an invasion of Mexico, but a move of our army to the border of the Republic of Texas which was co-extensive with the borders of the State of Texas and the land we had ceded to Mexico in 1819. Thereupon, the Mexican army attacked, and the war began in ernest. But in truth, Congress knew it was buy a war when it annexed Texas: http://texinfo.library.unt.edu/anne...es/atpm0143.pdf

Also, Santa Ana conceded the Texas border to be the Rio Grande in 1836 when he agreed to let Texas go free.

	10-05-2005 00:19									#219
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I don't know if this deserves a new thread, but Blair remonstrated the Germans today, reminding them that they are responsible for WWII and must live with the consequences, including its losing territories to commies and having their German population expelled, raped and/or killed.

If I were a German, I would tell this f*ck to go pound sand.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2005050...02142&printer=1