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Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 10:34
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Danish PM calls for Russia to apologize to Baltics Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

From Berlingske Tidende today, I've tried to translate an extract of the article.

quote:

3 May 2005
Tallinn/Copenhagen/Prague:

Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen (Venstre) is asking Russia to issue an apology for the 50 year long occupation of the Baltic countries by the Soviet Union. The Prime Minister also expresses his complete sympathy with the decision made by Estonia and Lithuania to boycott an upcoming memorial ceremony in Moscow in remembrance of the 60th anniversary for the end of World War II.

"We know from experience that it helps the efforts of reconciliation to recognize mistakes of the past - and to apologize on behalf of the nation" Anders Fogh Rasmussen said as he commented yesterday on the controversial matter of the Baltic demand for an official Russian apology. The Prime Minister is currently on a tour of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

The Prime Minister stressed that "We have seen German leaders apologize for mistakes and criminal acts commited in the past. Of course present day leaders cannot be held responsible for past decisions. But in order to create a sense of reconciliation, it can serve as a valuable means of furthering progress between countries, if leaders of today would be willing to acknowledge such mistakes made in the past."

The statements are seen by commentators as striking a very sensitive chord with Russia, who is expected to react harshly towards Denmark. It's the first time that any EU state leader has openly supported the Baltic countries' call for an apology.

The Prime Minister's appeal comes at a time when concerns about apologizing seem very far from entering the Russian political agenda. In contrast, President Putin last week in an address to the nation even expressed his regret that the Soviet Union had collapsed. The President called it the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century.

Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus was pleased by the expressed support of Denmark, but did not expect the present Russian administration to issue an apology. "It would be an achievement in itself, if the Russian government just acknowledged that those 50 years of occupation even took place. That is the expectation of the Lithuanian people" Adamkus said.

The Russian foreign ministry said yesterday it had no comments to make on the matter.

The Prime Minister's public support to the Baltic demands for an apology coincides with an expected official Danish apology tomorrow (eve of the 60th anniversary of Denmark's liberation) for the policy of cooperation with the German occupational forces, and for the return to Germany of 21 Jewish refugees during the occupation.


I wonder what horrible physical torment President Putin will be publicly wishing for to strike our PM, for making such outrageous statements.

Qilue is offline Qilue
King
Australia
Dec 1999
time: 15:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 10:43
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What is with all this demanding apologies over past events. Is it going to get to the point where Turkey demands an apology from Greece for the destruction of Troy?

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 10:54
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It's a gesture which may help not only the relations with other countries, but could also be aiding the understanding among one's own populace of what were the decisions and policies of the past. In many countries, certain aspects of history are played down or even denied, which can never be a helpful thing.

I see it also as a valuable process leading up to the apology itself. But of course it requires that the officials of, in this case, Russia manage to wrap their minds around the fact that there even was an occupation...

Last edited by Winston on 03-05-2005 at 11:34

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 10:58
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What's the point, Russia's not going to mean it. Russia will be like all drunk and "I'm sorry man... that was wrong" and Estonia and Latvia will be like "Dude, you so didn't mean that". And Russia will be like "I so totally did... lets get some vodka and get hammered".

And stuff..

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 11:17
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This also has to be seen in the context of the Estonian and Lithuanian boycott of the 60th anniversary festivities in Moscow on 9 May. The governments of these two countries have no intention of taking part in commemorations of this "liberation", considering the present Russian insistence that there was no such thing as a Soviet occupation of the Baltic states. The government of Latvia decided to take part in the ceremonies, but with the expressed intent of calling attention to the Soviet occupation taking over where the German occupation left off.

A country like Poland was very hesitant to announce its participation for some of the same reasons, and it's my understanding that President Kwasniewskij was under intense pressure domestically to not be present in Moscow.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 11:18 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What's the point, Russia's not going to mean it. Russia will be like all drunk and "I'm sorry man... that was wrong" and Estonia and Latvia will be like "Dude, you so didn't mean that". And Russia will be like "I so totally did... lets get some vodka and get hammered".

And stuff..





"I'll never get drunk again!!! Ever! THIS time is the last!!!"

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 13:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What's the point, Russia's not going to mean it. Russia will be like all drunk and "I'm sorry man... that was wrong" and Estonia and Latvia will be like "Dude, you so didn't mean that". And Russia will be like "I so totally did... lets get some vodka and get hammered".

And stuff..




That's SOOOO MUCH like it would be should Serb take up my full underwriting of beer expenditure in Vilnius

Saras is offline Saras
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 13:09
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Rasmussen

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker





"I'll never get drunk again!!! Ever! THIS time is the last!!!"


In that case we better start knocking down the good stuff.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 13:24
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The baltic countries should send all the Rooskies they had imposed upon them by the Sovs to the Russian end of WW2 party as good will embassadors, then slam the gates shut when they're gone.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
The baltic countries should send all the Rooskies they had imposed upon them by the Sovs to the Russian end of WW2 party as good will embassadors, then slam the gates shut when they're gone.


That's what the Russians (and the Poles) did to the Germans in East Prussia. They also raped the German women and killed a lot of them on the way out.

Did the Russians apologize for THAT?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:18
  Old Post 03-05-2005 23:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
The baltic countries should send all the Rooskies they had imposed upon them by the Sovs to the Russian end of WW2 party as good will embassadors, then slam the gates shut when they're gone.

Once you're in the EU, it's considered to be bad form. But if it can make you feel better, half of the Rooskies in Latvia (who are half of the whole population themselves) are still second rank citizens, without the right to vote. IIRC, the situation is similar in Estonia, but at least the sub-citizen status doesn't hit as many people.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:06
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Doesn't make me feel much better. They represent a potential fifth column.

"Once you're in the EU, it's considered to be bad form."

I also would consider being in the EU 'bad form'. Nice we can find common ground Spif.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:11 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Doesn't make me feel much better. They represent a potential fifth column.


So, they live there and have lived there for a long damn time. They have every right to be allowed to have a say in their governence. If you believe the Israelis have a right to Israel despite only living there for 60 years, then the Russians have a right to live in the Baltics and be citizens as well.

Saras is offline Saras
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:33
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Guys, are there requirements besides "have lived there for a long damn time" to gain citizenship in USA? France? UK? Sweden?

Thought so.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:36
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Hey, great plan - occupy a land, settle it with your people, and you know, who cares if that land gets its freedom back, you can bet that they'll vote itself back

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:38
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"So, they live there and have lived there for a long damn time."

The ones that were imposed by the Sovs when the baltic countries were under commie domination, against their will, could be asked to leave imo. The baltic countries should not be forced to live with something they would not have allowed in the first place. In essence, these are illegal immigrants.

If Israel is ever beaten, you just wait and see what happens to the Israelis, God help em. As far as the Israelis having a right to the land, well God gave it to them .

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:38
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after a couple of decades, hell yeah.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:41
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" This is a great idea. Such a human rights violation is just the kind of justification for war that Russia has been waiting for "

The Baltics are part of the EU now, yes? The Fwench will protect them.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:45
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Saras is offline Saras
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:47
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XVIII century all over again

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Saras
Guys, are there requirements besides "have lived there for a long damn time" to gain citizenship in USA? France? UK? Sweden?

Well, being born on the French/USA/UK territory is enough (though you have to have lived your first 16 years on the territory as well, in the case of France).

Can't say for Sweden, but you picked really bad countries to compare the Baltics when it comes to nationality right.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:55 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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We don't care about it as long as it isn't as bad an in Chechenia...

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:56
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The EU is such a happy family.

The Rooskies however are the unadopted bad boy teens living under the stairs...

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Yes, it is still a mystery to me why you admitted these Batlic republics into the EU while they still treat a segment of their population as second hand citizens, denying them their political rights that, one would hope, should be common to all members of the EU...

That's mostly because, when we initiated the integration process (years before the actual integration took place), we expected the Baltics to be ready on the issue.

In the last enlargement, there have been some disappointments (which is normal, considering how fricking big the undertaking was). And the Baltic's treatment of their Russian minorities is one of the EU's worst disappointments. That's why we now have changed our integration process: once the process has started, the aspiring member isn't guaranteed to join the Union anymore.

This new process can be seen with Turkey, and it should be seen with Croatia, once the initial talks are over.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 00:58
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fo' shizzle. keepin' it real, dawg.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 01:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
The Rooskies however are the unadopted bad boy teens living under the stairs...

They aren't the only ones. We reject the Turks and the Arabs much more.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 01:14
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I thought this was about the Baltics wanting Russia to apologize for the occupation.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 02:21
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Actually it turned into "The Baltics are doing something bad, and thus the Rooskies will never ever acknowledge the horrors they wrought on the Baltics"

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 02:46 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston
I thought this was about the Baltics wanting Russia to apologize for the occupation.


Too bad.

 
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