05-05-2005 21:46									#31
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SMAC 2 for President!

We're winning, guys.

	05-05-2005 21:51									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I voted for Simgolf

Yes, we could have SimGolf in full 3D and the option to import your sims from The Sims 2 so they could be the golfers in the game, and...

BURN THE HERETIC!!!!!

	05-05-2005 21:54									#33
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quote: Originally posted by livid imp We have found a witch, may we burn her?!?

Nope, not yet. First a long visit in the torture chamber.

	05-05-2005 22:07									#34
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Yea I was annoyed at that as well, tried not to pick anything first. They really should have a I don't play anything other than PC option. Anyway we can tell them that?

	05-05-2005 23:22									#35
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Voted

quote: 1. Which Sid Meier’s game/series (past or present) would you most like to see remade? [...] 59% Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri [...] 2. What is your gaming platform of choice (aside from the PC)? Percent Answer 32% Xbox 35% PS2 11% 'Cube 21% Handheld or Mobile 3. Do you frequently play games on a laptop as well as a desktop PC? Percent Answer 38% Yes 63% No 4. Graphics or Gameplay? Percent Answer 3% It’s gotta be pretty 52% Balance is the key 45% Who cares about graphics?

	06-05-2005 00:41									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Fosse 58% with a 39 point lead over Colonization. I wonder how many are direct from Apolyton. I was annoyed that I had to choose a favorite gameing platfor aside from the PC. I have played exactly one game on something besides a PC, and it was at a friends house.

I just chose mobile phone since I sometimes play bowling on my cell phone. .

and yes I did actually vote for smac- not sim golf.

and I voted for balance on the last option. SMAC gameplay is great, but it would be nice if we could have a little better graphics and sound. Or at least have the ability for other people to mod these easily.

	06-05-2005 01:02									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I just chose mobile phone since I sometimes play bowling on my cell phone. . and yes I did actually vote for smac- not sim golf. and I voted for balance on the last option. SMAC gameplay is great, but it would be nice if we could have a little better graphics and sound. Or at least have the ability for other people to mod these easily.

Nah, don't believe him - it's antichrist speaking. Let him take the watertest - put him in chains and throw him in the lake - I bet he'll float

	06-05-2005 02:01									#38
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SMAC 2, really, could just be exactly the same with better graphics...

	06-05-2005 02:04									#39
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And increased moddability. I want to do something mean to supply crawlers like a separate Support count for them per base.

	06-05-2005 10:58									#40
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quote: SMAC 2, really, could just be exactly the same with better graphics...

Well. I don't need SMACX with "enhanced graphics pack". I can easily live without that.

I want SMACX without all those really stupid bugs - Im a programmer and I know how such bugs appear and some of them are a very usual case of ignorance/lazyness.
One condition there and one there and such bug as "automate home defense" going out of your map would never appear..

Same goes with disbanding crawlers on SPs and changing SE at the same time.
They need only one more property - something like "costAtCompletion", which would save it's build cost under the current industry rating and then use it upon disbanding.


And map generator - a sole person, Smacksim, could optimise the map settings so that it's really really better than the original one.
I haven't seen much games where the creation team has left some areas so incomplete - it seems as they've been testing it for not more than 16h (2 working days for one person).
And mostly those games are not of any popularity.

Where do I draw it from?
I used to fiddle with map myself before I found out about SmackSim's work and I got to the same conclusions regarding 1/3 of the variables in a couple hours.
And I didn't knew how exactly those variables work.
I had to research it at first (which took me some more hours, but not even a whole working day).
But Firaxis did..

Many other features work just fine in Civ2 and 3, why don't copy the code (of course modifying it a bit for SMACX purposes) of, for example, patrol order from other Firaxis games?
IIRC Civ3 had it working (I might mistake here, but there are numerous other games in which it does work).


Also - the cheating with reload opportunity in SMACX is pretty much a result of programmer's "an easy way to do it" doctrine.


For me SMACX is a brilliant idea with little work - voila you get a bestseller!

Take the same brilliant idea, add little (and I mean not much more graphics are needed) of graphics, little to mind of AIs, little to gameplay (as I doubt much can be added without changing the idea itself), and much of testing, programming and all the other "black job"!

More moddable and more reasonable automating options would be simply brilliant.

And I speak it after finishing a 45minute turn with 300 units to issue orders to (700 units in total) and 80 bases to check.

	06-05-2005 12:11									#41
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Its up to 60% now.

Also see the following comment from Sid on the site


Question: Do you think there will be a follow up to Alpha Centauri? I just restarted playing it - after having been able to NOT play for a few years - and here we go again; all-nighters when my alarm clock tells me to go to work or get some sleep.
Sid: We get lots of requests from fans asking us to make another Alpha Centauri…and we’ve been talking about it quite a bit lately. So…it’s definitely a possibility down the road. Go get those Spartans!

	06-05-2005 12:16									#42
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin Well. I don't need SMACX with "enhanced graphics pack". I can easily live without that. I want SMACX without all those really stupid bugs - Im a programmer and I know how such bugs appear and some of them are a very usual case of ignorance/lazyness. One condition there and one there and such bug as "automate home defense" going out of your map would never appear.. Same goes with disbanding crawlers on SPs and changing SE at the same time. They need only one more property - something like "costAtCompletion", which would save it's build cost under the current industry rating and then use it upon disbanding. And map generator - a sole person, Smacksim, could optimise the map settings so that it's really really better than the original one. I haven't seen much games where the creation team has left some areas so incomplete - it seems as they've been testing it for not more than 16h (2 working days for one person). And mostly those games are not of any popularity. Where do I draw it from? I used to fiddle with map myself before I found out about SmackSim's work and I got to the same conclusions regarding 1/3 of the variables in a couple hours. And I didn't knew how exactly those variables work. I had to research it at first (which took me some more hours, but not even a whole working day). But Firaxis did.. Many other features work just fine in Civ2 and 3, why don't copy the code (of course modifying it a bit for SMACX purposes) of, for example, patrol order from other Firaxis games? IIRC Civ3 had it working (I might mistake here, but there are numerous other games in which it does work). Also - the cheating with reload opportunity in SMACX is pretty much a result of programmer's "an easy way to do it" doctrine. For me SMACX is a brilliant idea with little work - voila you get a bestseller! Take the same brilliant idea, add little (and I mean not much more graphics are needed) of graphics, little to mind of AIs, little to gameplay (as I doubt much can be added without changing the idea itself), and much of testing, programming and all the other "black job"! More moddable and more reasonable automating options would be simply brilliant. And I speak it after finishing a 45minute turn with 300 units to issue orders to (700 units in total) and 80 bases to check.

I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying the map generator is better in civ3 than in smac? I very much disagree.

	06-05-2005 12:22									#43
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quote: I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying the map generator is better in civ3 than in smac? I very much disagree.

Please read again.
I just don't see where did I say it.

I never said Civ3 is better, I just mentioned thing that works there and does not in SMAC.

No game is better than SMAC.
But even with that SMACX is one of the best examples of bad programming I've seen.

The errors are just so obvious..

I used to program Wap games and errors like the crawler disband on lower IND trick and the automate home defense out of map got my boss saying "WHAT? You see this?!? Fix it! It's 10 minutes of work!".

	06-05-2005 12:55									#44
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Actually, I'd handle Industry changes differently: I'd adjust the minerals accumulated to reflect the new row widths, in some non-exploitable way. For example, if you have +1 Industry and 22/27 minerals towards a colony pod, if you switch to +2 Industry, you would have 22 * 8 / 9 = 19.6 -> either 19 or 20 minerals (or just allow fractions). You're still closer to completion (or at least no farther), since only 24 minerals total are required, but it makes no since that accumulated production should benefit from or be penalized by Industry changes.

That change alone would nuke the SE quickie/supply crawler exploit, and I have no problem with a player building a fleet of crawlers at +2 Industry, cashing them in under +0 Industry for their +0 Industry value, and completing the build at +0 Industry.

	06-05-2005 13:00									#45
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That way it's even more reasonable and a bit harder to execute, but still nothing big for a professional programmer - just a little function which calcs this before switching SE/disbanding a unit.

quote: That change alone would nuke the SE quickie/supply crawler exploit, and I have no problem with a player building a fleet of crawlers at +2 Industry, cashing them in under +0 Industry for their +0 Industry value, and completing the build at +0 Industry.

Yes, it would, but about ending the project at +0 IND - it's hard to check if anyone is cheating on this and for me (both as CMN and player) it's a major complaint.

	06-05-2005 13:20									#46
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all these exploits are greek to me. I just choose not to use them.

yes I know that isn't practical for multiplayer games, but I digress.

	06-05-2005 14:31									#47
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quote: all these exploits are greek to me. I just choose not to use them.

A typical single-player's answer..

In MP it takes out very much fun, just to see your favourite SP grabbed by a cheater.

And there is no way you can prove it. There are always factors like pods and other which can be blamed for it.

E.g. you spot an opponent has finished PTS when he has not enough(10) crawlers for it and almost zero Ecs.
He claims he got a pod with 150 Ecs and could rush some 40 mins which he actually snagged by changing IND rates.

Yes, you'd say it's a question of trust and honour to follow the rules, but a person who's tempted to abuse them will most probably do it and there's no way to get rid of such cases...
(which even more annoying)

	06-05-2005 15:38									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Fosse 58% with a 39 point lead over Colonization. I wonder how many are direct from Apolyton. I was annoyed that I had to choose a favorite gameing platfor aside from the PC. I have played exactly one game on something besides a PC, and it was at a friends house.

Exactly one more than I have.

	06-05-2005 15:52									#49
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quote: Exactly one more than I have.

I had played PS one, but it was not listed..

	06-05-2005 18:58									#50
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You know... SMAC/SMAX has a ton of bugs, an AI that can't understand half the concepts of the game and graphics so bad that it actually matters... and yet it's an absolutely amazing game, absolutely the most atmospheric strategy game ever, amazing gameplay and everything. SMAC2 would probably be awesome, as well. I definitely want gameplay, not graphics, all the way, just as long as graphics are functional. SMAC2 .

	06-05-2005 19:29									#51
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Agreed. I think that's basically the consensus here. After all, we're playing a game from 1999, some of us almost religiously, just because it's great gameplay.

Give me an AI that challenges me enough to make single player fun again (as more than just "exercise" for MP), patch a few obvious and regrettable exploits or micromangements, a few tweaks here and there.... boom. Great game.

Please just retell exactly the same story - seven factions land on Chiron in 2101 - and I'll be delighted. I don't want the aliens, or even the SMAX five, I don't want any post-transcendance sequel (or a, "Whoops, transcend didn't work... now you're on a new planet... for some reason" sequel). Just a good old, perfectly balanced set of humans on the surface of Chiron wondering what all this pink stuff is.

	06-05-2005 20:35									#52
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin A typical single-player's answer.. In MP it takes out very much fun, just to see your favourite SP grabbed by a cheater. And there is no way you can prove it. There are always factors like pods and other which can be blamed for it. E.g. you spot an opponent has finished PTS when he has not enough(10) crawlers for it and almost zero Ecs. He claims he got a pod with 150 Ecs and could rush some 40 mins which he actually snagged by changing IND rates.

yes, you can do it... but how many times?
do it twice and you deserve suspicious...

quote: Yes, you'd say it's a question of trust and honour to follow the rules, but a person who's tempted to abuse them will most probably do it and there's no way to get rid of such cases... (which even more annoying)

yes, it's a kind of trust each other...
but i think if any player has any doubt at ANY stage of the game - it should be halted and investigated by a proper person (mostly CMN)
this game is buggy and we cannot tolerate persons who abuses them...

	07-05-2005 00:12									#53
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I voted of course... 60 % Smac now.... something tells me not too many people have voted...

	07-05-2005 00:22									#54
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Sebed: E_N got away with a lot, and was only caught by statistical analysis of his position.

	07-05-2005 01:02									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Fosse Agreed. I think that's basically the consensus here. After all, we're playing a game from 1999, some of us almost religiously, just because it's great gameplay. Give me an AI that challenges me enough to make single player fun again (as more than just "exercise" for MP), patch a few obvious and regrettable exploits or micromangements, a few tweaks here and there.... boom. Great game. Please just retell exactly the same story - seven factions land on Chiron in 2101 - and I'll be delighted. I don't want the aliens, or even the SMAX five, I don't want any post-transcendance sequel (or a, "Whoops, transcend didn't work... now you're on a new planet... for some reason" sequel). Just a good old, perfectly balanced set of humans on the surface of Chiron wondering what all this pink stuff is.

I think to work they do have to start in 2101 and have a similar story.

Though I'd want planet to be a lot different. But I like the concept of 7 opposing factions dividing up when they reach planet.

I was never big on the whole mindworm thing (and living planet), I wouldn't mind seeing that go away.

	07-05-2005 01:44									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I think to work they do have to start in 2101 and have a similar story. I was never big on the whole mindworm thing (and living planet), I wouldn't mind seeing that go away.

I think that there are many different options to starting SMAC2, and for the most part it would only be limited by the creativity of those involved. In one of my SP Challenges over at CGN I created a whole different 8th Faction to replace the MW's, IoD's, LoC's, etc. , and built a new storyline to tell the tale:

By MY 2473, several Factions have established themselves as the dominant forces in the Alpha Centauri solar system. Planet Busters, Drop Units, helicopters armed with Nerve Agent, and growing hordes of native lifeforms make it clear that, with a single spark, Planet could very well go the way of Earth, and erupt into devastating global warfare!
In these most ominous of times, several minor factions discover the wreckage of a Progenitor interstellar spaceship on the farside of Nessus. In utmost secrecy the Factions agree to pool their meager resources and reverse-engineer the alien spaceship, hoping that by using the interstellar drive they can find a new home, free from the dominion of the dominant Factions on Planet.
After much discussion, the Faction leaders agree that their destination is to be an Eden-like planet labeled on the salvaged Progenitor star charts simply as “Colony: Failed”.
By MY 2492, 1,000 years after Columbus made his historic voyage, the spaceship Santa Maria is ready, and the hyperjump is made to the Beta Lyrae solar system.
However, upon arriving in-system, the spaceships sensors indicate that the planet chosen for colonization is not the pristine Garden of Eden listed in the Progenitor database, but an eroded wasteland, showing only brief glimpses of what this planet must once have been like.
Discouraged by this turn of events, a council is called, and it is agreed that another promising solar system is to be chosen for the purpose of colonization.
Just as the Progenitor-cloned hyperdrive is being activated, a strange alien spaceship materializes in the space above you, attacking your spaceship and sending it into a decaying orbit around the planet below, known as Beta Prime.
Now, armed only with what you could hastily salvage from the spaceship, you must begin anew on the former Progenitor colony planet of Beta Prime!

This is just one idea. I'm sure that there are many more, excellent ideas out there for a storyline for SMAC2, and I think that it should tell a different tale, and one that not necessarily starts out in 2101.


D

	07-05-2005 02:05									#57
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The mindworms and living planet ideas were great, something along the line of Solaris. The story was downright great .

	07-05-2005 02:10									#58
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I agree the story was what really attracted me the fact that it was civ with a story (and a cool one that before I hadn't encountered though I now know it wasn't really all that original..) was the reason I still consider it the best strategy game of all time.

	07-05-2005 03:32									#59
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I voted for a Smac2 and I voted for gameplay.

It is the strength of the gameplay variability that has helped keep SMAC/X at the top.

	07-05-2005 03:53									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Sid Sid: We get lots of requests from fans asking us to make another Alpha Centauri…and we’ve been talking about it quite a bit lately. So…it’s definitely a possibility down the road. Go get those Spartans!

Don't listen to him! I tell you!