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Darsnan
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New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Assuming one is fluent enough in C++ to be capable of writing (or removing) code to accomplish these things - then the answer is yes. |
Well, I am more of a "hack and hope" programmer myself....
Regardless, thanx for the feedback - I'm sure it will be useful to our community as we contemplate taking on this task or not. 
quote:
Originally posted by binTravkin
Yes, yes, YES!
I got a rumour somewhere that it will be in Python. Man, as a programmer I've only heard about it.
But C++ - I was good at TPascal, so it won't be a prob to learn this one (they're pretty alike). |
You do understand the magnitude of what is inferred by Trip above? I'm estimating (conservatively) about 6 months here, even if we are porting over a lot of the old text files, SP movies, and *cough* caviar files.
D
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Senethro
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I've good news on that BinTravkin. In Civ4 military units gain special abilities for winning battles. Things such as Jungle Combat or the ability to use enemy roads. I think it will be possible to use it.
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PJayTycy
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Civ4 doesn't use seperate defensive/offensive strenghts anymore though. The only thing that matters for a battle is:
=> Special abillities (modifiers with regards to opposing unit type, your tile, your opponents tile).
=> Number of hitpoints.
I think this will be one of the hardest things to re-implement. The rest should be possible: new reactors are just units with more hitpoints, planets = barbarians, design workshop can be worked around by providing all regularly used units predefined.
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mart7x5
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Darsnan,
Most of civ players, as far as I noticed, consider science fiction a disease. I wonder what actual altitude is still considered ok and what belonging to that "ill" space stuff. I had some conversation about space exploration in civ4 ideas forum. They feel aversion to it. How then they could invite someone loving sci-fi?
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binTravkin
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Lord of Progress of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Jan 2004
time: 07:18
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quote:
I think this will be one of the hardest things to re-implement. |
I think we could first try to not re-implement it.
After all, we already have SMACX.
Making the mod exactly the same is no use IMO, if you want to play SMACX, take it and play.
I imagine that mod will be something different from SMACX, something evolved.
If we find that the "hitpoint" concept (possibly with some workaround) works well, we can live with it.
I for myself don't want another SMACX, I want SMACX 2!
And Im not gonna rewrite the code just to get it similar to SMACX.
quote:
and with few resources... |
I've been thinking about this.
If we really face lack of resources we can make the mod a bit commercial.
Sell it say for a fee of $5 - 10 (which should more than worth it and I think could compensate for the resources a bit) and I can recruit a couple of people who'd work for it (wages in Latvia are low, you know  ).
quote:
I guess I have to ask why were no SMAC'ers invited into the group of 60 in order to assess what was entailed/ needed for a SMAC Mod? If only one of us had been invited a year ago, we could have given great feedback all during these last 12 months as to what would (at the very least) make our lives easier for a SMAC Mod, or at the very barest of levels give one of us a heads up as to an enlightened approach as to how to attack the C++ coding in order to build a SMAC Mod.... |
Yeah, blame Firaxis!
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mart7x5
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I have written one game in visual basic, although not commercial I have completed that project. I have also other attempts to write some interesting games, but since I have now quite high expectations from it, none of my attempts are completed yet. So I may share some insights as to writing a new game.
The most crucial are:
- good idea
- detailed design
The idea SMACX2 is not enough. We would need exactly know what would be new/different in SMACX2
A good design is what takes the most of thinking and maybe time from a casual developer. What may seem excellent when designing only since we put so much effort into it may turn out often as very poor and dissapointing in the final effect. The problem is that until someone actually tests the game by playing it, its playability may be unknown.
Coding is really not that much difficult, especially when someone is knowing the language he/she writes in.
And here comes a problem. If using some scripting language not well known to a person writing a mod in it, only cause that scripting language is the only allowed here may in fact at least several times prolong the time of writing the code.
Different persons designing a game and writing a scripts/code? I will give an example. In the department I have been working at the university, we had an instrument in need of writing a software for it. The company that sold us the instrument hired some other profesional software company to do it. The subject for which the instrument makes measurements was a "black magic" for those guys (I mean they knew nothing about it) They worked professionaly I am sure, but the final software they did is complete sh*t. I simply know it cause I need to do experiments with this instrument and this software.
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binTravkin
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Lord of Progress of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Jan 2004
time: 07:18
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quote:
And here comes a problem. If using some scripting language not well known to a person writing a mod in it, only cause that scripting language is the only allowed here may in fact at least several times prolong the time of writing the code. |
No worries, I learn fast and I'll probably learn C++ before doing anything. It's not that much different from other languages I know, the most important thing in programming is not to know the language, but have "programmer's thinking" and understanding about the structure of language (there are only several types of structure and the one of C++ I know because QB and TP has the same, but a bit simpler one).
quote:
Different persons designing a game and writing a scripts/code? I will give an example. In the department I have been working at the university, we had an instrument in need of writing a software for it. The company that sold us the instrument hired some other profesional software company to do it. The subject for which the instrument makes measurements was a "black magic" for those guys (I mean they knew nothing about it) They worked professionaly I am sure, but the final software they did is complete sh*t. I simply know it cause I need to do experiments with this instrument and this software. |
Noone's going to hire a company. I was talking about a couple of well known-to-me people to which I can explain what must be done in programmer's language which they now, not in user's in which you probably tried to explain.
And I have had such cases in my programmers career as well. Your example is on the extreme end..
quote:
The idea SMACX2 is not enough. We would need exactly know what would be new/different in SMACX2 |
Okay, I probaly didn't spell it out correctly:
1. we need bugs fixed and if we code it, we can do it.
2. we need better AI (no matter which version)
3. there's a wishlist for SMAC 2 already which can be taken in count.
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Darsnan
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New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by mart7x5
The idea SMACX2 is not enough. We would need exactly know what would be new/different in SMACX2 |
I can see two camps developping here. First camp would be those who want a Civ4 mod of SMAC(X) that is essentially a complete clone of the original, right down to the last fungus-covered rock. Second camp would be those that would want a SMAC(X)2 which I envision entailing a different storyline/ Factions/ Planet. Both approaches I think would guarrantee an enhanced AI over what exists today. I would personally think that the SMAC(X) clone should be our first attempt, as it would be the easiest, as well as have the broadest support among our fanbase. From there we then go our seperate ways and build other mods (I for one am extremely interested in replacing Planet and its minions with an intelligent alien race). However, a better approach might be to hold a poll in our community and see what the population wants, and then we focus our efforts on that.
quote:
Originally posted by binTravkin
3. there's a wishlist for SMAC 2 already which can be taken in count. |
I think this is another reason why I am hesitant to build a SMAC(X)2 (as opposed to a SMAC(X) clone), as we would never be able to incoporate all of the wishes, thus potentially eliminating the desire for participation from some of our community. A SMAC(X) clone would conceivably have the broadest appeal IMO. However, here again, if we post a poll, I'm sure we'll get good direction from those that care/ would probably be involved.
D
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Senethro
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To summarise, we arbitrarily choose regular SMACx to mod.
This mod shall then make it easier for everyone afterward to make a mod.
We shouldn't look to just our own fanbase but to Civ4 modders who want experience and a coherent project.
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Ka Plewy
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quote:
Originally posted by binTravkin
[...]
Yeah, Civ3/SMACX fans mobilise!
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There are Civ3 fans?
quote:
I mean those which like both games and are active in both forums.
You could give us at least the person list to be directed to.
Like:
Darsnan
Googlie
binTravkin
for SMACX. |
Cart->Horse not Horse->Cart
Meaning, while I think it's great to hope for CIV4 being a good game, Civ3 really was a big disappointment to many fans of Civ2/SMACX. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, we have at least 6 months before the game is released.
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mart7x5
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Well, for me it is +1%. It is 30% and was 29%
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Hydro
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Winfield, IL, USA
Jun 1999
time: 05:18
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Maybe I should give the MODers more credit. I’m in PBEM 13 in a world the esteemed Googlie MODed – ack! I’m the Gaians, and I’ve stirred up NO worms yet and its 2223! There are no artifacts, even if there are pods all over the place. And the Usurpers and Caretakers are NASTY. My entire air force of chaos fusion bombers won’t even scratch ONE CITY (Geosynch Pods at the start: boo, hiss). The AI is doing a fine job of keeping up technologically (Googs gifted the AI factions energy satellites – the sneak): the human players didn’t get to fusion first, and the Usurpers are way ahead in offensive tech (now shard – the humans have chaos). I don’t know how he did it, but he’s making the 2 human players work – hard. Bless his black little heart…
Hydro
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mart7x5
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39 % Colonization
31 % SMACX
16 % Silent Service
0-1 (2)% all other
I think it rather says for sure make 2 remakes. Then if you still want do Silent Service. Forget all others.
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24-05-2005 13:30
(it would be better if they weren't)
CMN's have come a long way in the last 18 months! 
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