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Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 16:24
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Our prison problem would go away if we just legalized marijuana Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

... or not.

quote:
Marijuana Becomes Focus of Drug War
Less Emphasis on Heroin and Cocaine

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 4, 2005; A01

The focus of the drug war in the United States has shifted significantly over the past decade from hard drugs to marijuana, which now accounts for nearly half of all drug arrests nationwide, according to an analysis of federal crime statistics released yesterday.

The study of FBI data by a Washington-based think tank, the Sentencing Project, found that the proportion of heroin and cocaine cases plummeted from 55 percent of all drug arrests in 1992 to less than 30 percent 10 years later. During the same period, marijuana arrests rose from 28 percent of the total to 45 percent.

Coming in the wake of the focus on crack cocaine in the late 1980s, the increasing emphasis on marijuana enforcement was accompanied by a dramatic rise in overall drug arrests, from fewer than 1.1 million in 1990 to more than 1.5 million a decade later. Eighty percent of that increase came from marijuana arrests, the study found.

The rapid increase has not had a significant impact on prisons, however, because just 6 percent of the arrests resulted in felony convictions, the study found. The most widely quoted household survey on the topic has shown relatively little change in the overall rate of marijuana use over the same time period, experts said.

"In reality, the war on drugs as pursued in the 1990s was to a large degree a war on marijuana," said Ryan S. King, the study's co-author and a research associate at the Sentencing Project. "Marijuana is the most widely used illegal substance, but that doesn't explain this level of growth over time. . . . The question is, is this really where we want to be spending all our money?"

The think tank is a left-leaning group that advocates alternatives to traditional imprisonment. Criminologists and government officials confirmed the trend, which in some ways marks a return to a previous era. In 1982, marijuana arrests accounted for 72 percent of all drug arrests, according to the study.

Bush administration officials attribute the rise in marijuana arrests to a variety of factors: increased use among teenagers during parts of the 1990s; efforts by local police departments to focus more on street-level offenses; and growing concerns over the danger posed by modern, more potent versions of marijuana. The White House Office of National Drug Control Policy released a study yesterday showing that youth who use marijuana are more likely to develop serious mental health problems, including depression and schizophrenia.

"This is not Cheech and Chong marijuana," said David Murray, a policy analyst for the anti-drug office. "It's a qualitatively different drug, and that's reflected in the numbers."

The new statistics come amid signs of a renewed debate in political circles over the efficacy of U.S. drug policies, which have received less attention recently amid historically low crime rates and a focus on terrorism since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, for example, has formed a national committee to oversee prosecution of violent drug gangs and has vowed to focus more resources on the fight against methamphetamine manufacturers and other drug traffickers.

But increasingly, some experts have begun to argue that the U.S. drug war, which costs an estimated $35 billion a year, has had a minimal impact on consumption of illicit substances. The conservative American Enterprise Institute published a report in March titled "Are We Losing the War on Drugs?" Its authors argue that, among other things, "criminal punishment of marijuana use does not appear to be justified."

The study released yesterday by the Sentencing Project found that arrests for marijuana account for nearly all of the increase in drug arrests seen during the 1990s. The report also found that one in four people in state prisons for marijuana offenses can be classified as a "low-level offender," and it estimated that $4 billion a year is spent on arresting and prosecuting marijuana crimes.

In addition, the study showed that although African Americans make up 14 percent of marijuana users generally, they account for nearly a third of all marijuana arrests.

Among the most striking findings was the researchers' examination of arrest trends in New York City, which focused intently on "zero tolerance" policies during Rudolph W. Giuliani's mayoral administration. Marijuana arrests in the city increased tenfold from 1990 to 2002, from 5,100 to more than 50,000, the report said. Nine of 10 of arrests in 2002 were for possession rather than dealing.

The study also found a wide disparity in the growth of marijuana arrests in some of the United States' largest counties, from a 20 percent increase in San Diego to a 418 percent spike in King County, Wash. (The only decrease in the sample came in Northern Virginia's Fairfax County, where marijuana arrests declined by 37 percent.)

"There's been a major change in what's going on in drug enforcement, but it clearly isn't something that someone set out to do," said Jonathan Caulkins, a criminology professor at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. "It's not like anyone said, 'We don't care about cocaine and heroin anymore.' . . . The simple answer may be that police are now taking opportunities to make more marijuana arrests than they were when they were focused on crack cocaine in the 1980s."


This seems to be a pretty common claim on 'Poly, but it simply isn't true.

Winston is offline Winston
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Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 16:35
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... and even if it were, one could just as well say if we legalised murder, we'd have the world's lowest murder conviction rate.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 16:50
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What is so wrong with Marijuana that it should be illegal?

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 16:54
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Exactly who has contributed only one thing to prison problem? Get a clue. This is ONE of the problems. Did you read your own bolded quote? I see that as a freaking huge problem.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 16:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
This seems to be a pretty common claim on 'Poly, but it simply isn't true.


I don't know any of the regular posters who have made this claim recently. I do remember citing a previous study which said the same thing; that drug offenders just don't end up in the federal prison system and that they are a tiny single digit minority there. Most drug casses end up in local or state jails and they're released shortly after they get there. Left wing groups like to make the claim that some outrageously high percentage of people arrested are for drug offenses but they deliberately fail to mention that the huge majority of those cases only have people in jail over night or simply have them arrested and then released on their on recognance.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
What is so wrong with Marijuana that it should be illegal?


I didn't say it should be. However, whenever a discussion of America's incarceration rate comes up this myth is always mentioned.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Exactly who has contributed only one thing to prison problem? Get a clue. This is ONE of the problems. Did you read your own bolded quote? I see that as a freaking huge problem.


Let's look at that again, m'kay?

quote:
The rapid increase has not had a significant impact on prisons, however, because just 6 percent of the arrests resulted in felony convictions, the study found.


Wait a second...

quote:
The rapid increase has not had a significant impact on prisons


This directly contradicts the claim that America's prison problems would virtually disappear if we legalized marijuana.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:19
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Hmm let's look what I said again, m'kay?

"Exactly who has contributed only one thing to prison problem? "

Meaning that we assume we can process more than one thing at a time, this is one thing, and then there are lots of other things as well.

So half the arrests are marijuana related. That says a lot of arrests are marijuana related. 6% of those end up with felony convictions.

What do you want? 100% of every inmate being inside for pot?

Do you know how many prisoners there are in the US? Some might exaggarate saying this thing alone would bring down the prison problem, but you say it's nothing but a myth. Look at those figures again. I guess it's not a problem, huh??

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:21
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If it hasn't had a significant impact... then no. And half of DRUG arrests are marijuana related, not TOTAL arrests.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:25
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well who considers significant impact to be what..

"Coming in the wake of the focus on crack cocaine in the late 1980s, the increasing emphasis on marijuana enforcement was accompanied by a dramatic rise in overall drug arrests, from fewer than 1.1 million in 1990 to more than 1.5 million a decade later. Eighty percent of that increase came from marijuana arrests, the study found."

Ok, os half of drug arrests are marijuana related. that's.. 750 000. 6% of those end up with felony convictions. Is that just a figure to you? Murdereous dictator agree! But I guess it's easier for you to shut your eyes when you see one article out fo 100 that says it's a myth, you take and believe that and forget the issue for the rest of your life and keep repeating 'it's a myth, it's a myth, leftist conspiracy'. 6% of 750 000. And rising.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:29
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6% of 750k is 45k. Out a country of ~300 million.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:31
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yeah. You don't consider that a lot?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I didn't say it should be. However, whenever a discussion of America's incarceration rate comes up this myth is always mentioned.

Yup. My question was aimed at Winston, as he made an absurd parallel between Drug use and murder.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:38
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if you want to get technical about it, find out somewhere, how much one prisoner per day costs. Multiply that with 45 000 and that's the cost, every day.

I do realize, that most of these must be dealers, and that in most cases there's more involved than just smoking your joint in your own place and just chilling.

However, my point is, 45 000 is a lot of people, where you say it's not really that much in a country of 300 million.

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston
... and even if it were, one could just as well say if we legalised murder, we'd have the world's lowest murder conviction rate.


... and if we legalised smoking tobacco, we would have the world's lowest tobacco-smoking conviction rate

Tell me then, does marijuana compare better to tobacco or murder?

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:42
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Put an end to popups!

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
time: 07:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:44
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VetLegion, what's that supposed to mean?

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:48
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It's a rectangle with all four sides equal. I think it's fairly obvious

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:54
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A vagina?

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
time: 07:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 17:59
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Got spare money?

it's a diamond actually.

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 18:03
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Get a bigger avatar today!

Last edited by VetLegion on 05-05-2005 at 18:11

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 18:13
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But here's what I got

Attachment: vetlegionvagina.jpg
This has been downloaded 45 time(s).

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 18:16
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Remove this text

Ahh, now I see a vagina too. It seems your ordinateur is displaying some characters wrongly

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 19:05 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Set your encoding to unicode.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
time: 00:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 19:10
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I did. It remains a diamond...

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 19:17 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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I am guessing you are trying to use Wingdings or some other font hack.

Attachment: vetlegion.gif
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 20:24
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

Yup. My question was aimed at Winston, as he made an absurd parallel between Drug use and murder.


Nope. The only parallel I drew was that the two claims were equally devoid of any meaning in the context of debate.

Or should I say, I tried to.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 20:27
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Yaay!!! 0157!

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 20:31 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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I'd like to see more resources devoted to stopping crank.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 05-05-2005 20:32
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Got spare money?

as for the topic:

I wonder how many people are in prison because of crimes that can ultimately be traced back to MJ. If it really is a gateway drug, and if other drugs lead to other crimes, etc... The problem, ultimately, is not legalization or not, but WHY people conduct these crimes that land them in prison.

 
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